CODE blockade and roleplay

[Traven Mayhem]

The previous incarnations of Elite had no need as they weren't multiplayer. (though in fairness around stations dozens of Vipers would swarm you for being a bad boy). Most of the pirates I have seen operate in wings in vastly superior ships ganging up on lone traders and you then blame them for not wanting to be cannon fodder saying that the different modes of play need to be removed and/or locked? I would imagine most players have different moods and some days don't want to deal with people, so they should be punished for this? Like it or not pirates regardless of police efficiency should not be allowed to operate in lawful systems with impunity and no police response or pressure to drive them out period. After like 10 minutes of being a bad boy in a system they should be harassed constantly by police interdictions and frequent armed responses. Not the way it currently is, but that is the way it should realistically be.

Again you are asking for an invincible police response. This is not EVE, strop trying to make it EVE. The fact that these pirates are 'players' really dshouldn't matter. Is it somehow offensive for you to be attacked and robbed by a player, but not by an NPC? NPC's and players in elite are meant to be interchangeable.

At the end of the day you are asking for pirates to be nerfed out of existance, so you can happily trade in safety. you are playing the wrong game, this is elite *dangerous* not elite *safe space*'

anyways, this thread is going in circles.. ta ta

 

[bossbrigand]

The previous incarnations of Elite had no need as they weren't multiplayer. (though in fairness around stations dozens of Vipers would swarm you for being a bad boy). Most of the pirates I have seen operate in wings in vastly superior ships ganging up on lone traders and you then blame them for not wanting to be cannon fodder saying that the different modes of play need to be removed and/or locked? I would imagine most players have different moods and some days don't want to deal with people, so they should be punished for this? Like it or not pirates regardless of police efficiency should not be allowed to operate in lawful systems with impunity and no police response or pressure to drive them out period. After like 10 minutes of being a bad boy in a system they should be harassed constantly by police interdictions and frequent armed responses. Not the way it currently is, but that is the way it should realistically be.

The Elite universe in general, at least as it pertains to space travel, is pretty lawless, even in systems with enforcement, simply because of the vast distances involved. For efficiency's sake they rely on you stumbling across them most of the time and random checks at stations.

There is already police response to interdictions, plus backup if there's an assault, plus additional backup if you destroy a police ship, plus any police ships in supercruise that scan you while you have a bounty will interdict you and engage you, and even if you don't have a bounty sometimes they interdict you just for the hell of it. Pirates don't usually hang around in one system, they jump around.

With the 1.3 crime revision coming up it'll be even more in depth, but I have a feeling even that won't satisfy you - you seem to think players should just not be allowed to pirate other players.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Nope; FD got it right.

of course you would say that, seeing as it gives your gameplay style a heavy advantage in CG scenarios. Unfortunately, FDEV has to try to appeal to the whole player base, not just PVE traders.

 

[bossbrigand]

of course you would say that, seeing as it gives your gameplay style a heavy advantage in CG scenarios. Unfortunately, FDEV has to try to appeal to the whole player base, not just PVE traders.

I feel like even considering some of these guys "PVE" players is being generous. Earlier this year I saw a few complaining about NPC interdictions being "way too stressful" and wanting a way to turn them off.

 

[Phosphora]

of course you would say that, seeing as it gives your gameplay style a heavy advantage in CG scenarios. Unfortunately, FDEV has to try to appeal to the whole player base, not just PVE traders.

I prefer having the ability to lock out groups like Code, and play the way *I* like to play. I find PvP dull and boring.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[I_Am_Static]

Earlier this year I saw a few complaining about NPC interdictions being "way too stressful" and wanting a way to turn them off.

Please tell me that's a joke.... on a scale of 1 to Even, I can't!

 

[An Onion]

I prefer having the ability to lock out groups like Code, and play the way *I* like to play. I find PvP dull and boring.

Cheers, Phos.

So play Solo?

 

[Darkphoenix]

Again you are asking for an invincible police response. This is not EVE, strop trying to make it EVE. The fact that these pirates are 'players' really dshouldn't matter. Is it somehow offensive for you to be attacked and robbed by a player, but not by an NPC? NPC's and players in elite are meant to be interchangeable.

At the end of the day you are asking for pirates to be nerfed out of existance, so you can happily trade in safety. you are playing the wrong game, this is elite *dangerous* not elite *safe space*'

anyways, this thread is going in circles.. ta ta

Not asking for invincible forces for cripes sake, just something believable because as it currently stands it is anything but. This is not EvE on that we agree so you should stop trying to bring organized guilds turning non anarchy systems into your little troupe's playgrounds and exploiting the weak/almost non-existent police responses even after being in system for several hours being a nuisance. If pirates had free reign to operate anywhere they liked every system in game should be immediately changed to anarchy to reflect that fact. Actually, we also agree that this is a circular argument going nowhere so ta ta to you as well

 

[xondk]

So play Solo?

See, why should he? why shouldn't he be allowed to block people he doesn't want to play with? If he wants to play with others, just not group x because he doesn't like them?

 

[bossbrigand]

Not asking for invincible forces for cripes sake, just something believable because as it currently stands it is anything but. This is not EvE on that we agree so you should stop trying to bring organized guilds turning non anarchy systems into your little troupe's playgrounds and exploiting the weak/almost non-existent police responses even after being in system for several hours being a nuisance. If pirates had free reign to operate anywhere they liked every system in game should be immediately changed to anarchy to reflect that fact. Actually, we also agree that this is a circular argument going nowhere so ta ta to you as well

I feel like you're going out of your way not to read anything anyone has posted in response to you.

See, why should he? why shouldn't he be allowed to block people he doesn't want to play with? If he wants to play with others, just not group x because he doesn't like them?

Why should he be? The ability to simply block everything that might cause him to lose gives him a significant advantage over other players who have enough integrity not to because he can build his resources faster and influence the background simulation more readily than someone who started at the same time but accepted danger. Playing in Open almost seems pointless when players who play in Solo can override and undo everything you've spent time and effort working towards by flying from point A to point B a lot without trouble.

In the Elite universe you will encounter hostiles and you will probably be destroyed several times. You don't just get to decide you don't want to encounter difficulty or challenges. That is why Solo having an effect on the background sim is stupid.

 

[smsKONG]

Dude the singular example FDEV gave for power play was: '1 power will want X number of items delivered to a system, Y power will want those cargo transfers stopped/blockaded' please wake up and smell the coffee

And where in that example does it mention actual players - given that any powers we affiliate ourselves with are by their very nature npcs themselves.
I love coffee

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And this thread has been successfully derailed from having a genuine point to becoming a solo vs open thread.

There's another thread for all this and it's all been said before

 

[xondk]

Why should he be? The ability to simply block everything that might cause him to lose gives him a significant advantage over other players who have enough integrity not to because he can build his resources faster and influence the background simulation more readily than someone who started at the same time but accepted danger. Playing in Open almost seems pointless when players who play in Solo can override and undo everything you've spent time and effort working towards by flying from point A to point B a lot without trouble.

In the Elite universe you will encounter hostiles and you will probably be destroyed several times. You don't just get to decide you don't want to encounter difficulty or challenges. That is why Solo having an effect on the background sim is stupid.

This statement is...amazing, since I would consider that it is those that enjoy gaming to specifically harm other people and get a kick out of that to be having much less integrity, so how is it your judgement of him, should be anymore valid then his judgement of others? This is exactly one of the problems in this case? Because one side doesn't want to have "pirates" that only jump easy targets, and the other side doesn't want the 'weak' people to have any affect on 'their' fun because they are strong and smart, by jumping weak targets?

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Not asking for invincible forces for cripes sake, just something believable because as it currently stands it is anything but. This is not EvE on that we agree so you should stop trying to bring organized guilds turning non anarchy systems into your little troupe's playgrounds and exploiting the weak/almost non-existent police responses even after being in system for several hours being a nuisance. If pirates had free reign to operate anywhere they liked every system in game should be immediately changed to anarchy to reflect that fact. Actually, we also agree that this is a circular argument going nowhere so ta ta to you as well

You want realistic? Go walk around Mexico city at night or sail a moderately priced yacht around the southern coast or Haiti, or the eastern coast of Somalia, or even walk around some parts of US territory like say, St. Thomas USVI after dark. See what happens, then tell me Elite's 'police response' to pirates and criminals is unrealistic

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The Elite universe in general, at least as it pertains to space travel, is pretty lawless, even in systems with enforcement, simply because of the vast distances involved. For efficiency's sake they rely on you stumbling across them most of the time and random checks at stations.

There is already police response to interdictions, plus backup if there's an assault, plus additional backup if you destroy a police ship, plus any police ships in supercruise that scan you while you have a bounty will interdict you and engage you, and even if you don't have a bounty sometimes they interdict you just for the hell of it. Pirates don't usually hang around in one system, they jump around.

With the 1.3 crime revision coming up it'll be even more in depth, but I have a feeling even that won't satisfy you - you seem to think players should just not be allowed to pirate other players.

No pirates are OK IMO but players roleplaying psycho killers should face the same almost certain destruction that the lone type 6 trader faces when being mindlessly destroyed. They should be hunted down mercillesly by both the police any by assassins paid for by insurance companies sick of paying out.

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You want realistic? Go walk around Mexico city at night or sail a moderately priced yacht around the southern coast or Haiti, or the eastern coast of Somalia, or even walk around some parts of US territory like say, St. Thomas USVI after dark. See what happens, then tell me Elite's 'police response' to pirates and criminals is unrealistic

But Lave Leesti and Sol are not Somalia they are hisec systems

 

[Traven Mayhem]

No pirates are OK IMO but players roleplaying psycho killers should face the same almost certain destruction that the lone type 6 trader faces when being mindlessly destroyed. They should be hunted down mercillesly by both the police any by assassins paid for by insurance companies sick of paying out.

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But Lave Leesti and Sol are not Somalia they are hisec systems

So is downtown Detroit, and the south side of Chicago.

 

[smsKONG]

No pirates are OK IMO but players roleplaying psycho killers should face the same almost certain destruction that the lone type 6 trader faces when being mindlessly destroyed. They should be hunted down mercillesly by both the police any by assassins paid for by insurance companies sick of paying out.

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But Lave Leesti and Sol are not Somalia they are hisec systems

You haven't been keeping up mike!
Apparently the security response is ample for the people arguing for everyone in open.
Hisec Lowsec Nilsec
Potato Tomato
You get the idea.

Nevermind criminals living in anarchy and going to work in lowsec.
No, any criminal should be fine to go on a kill crazy rampage in a vulture in Sol without having to worry about an appropriate response!

Hopefully the security overhaul will start to define our systems by security level as intended by the ddf.

 

[Phosphora]

So play Solo?

I mix Solo and Mobius, just the way I like it. I think FD have it right.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Darkphoenix]

The Elite universe in general, at least as it pertains to space travel, is pretty lawless, even in systems with enforcement, simply because of the vast distances involved. For efficiency's sake they rely on you stumbling across them most of the time and random checks at stations.

It should be reflected then by changing the system status to Anarchy then reflecting the fact that the system is lawless or extremely law lacking. You should be able to commit any crime in any system at any time but there should also be meaningful consequences for doing so. After a half an hour of running amok with wanton slaughter the police interference should make it very extremely difficult to continue to do so.

There is already police response to interdictions, plus backup if there's an assault, plus additional backup if you destroy a police ship, plus any police ships in supercruise that scan you while you have a bounty will interdict you and engage you, and even if you don't have a bounty sometimes they interdict you just for the hell of it.

While this is true, you can hardly call a viper and an eagle or roundabouts as a challenging response or interdiction for a wing of 4 tooled up Clippers, FDL's or conda's.

Pirates don't usually hang around in one system, they jump around.

We agree on this, however I didn't see any evidence of this during the Diso CG. When said pirates were physically in game they were never in danger of ever being driven off.

With the 1.3 crime revision coming up it'll be even more in depth, but I have a feeling even that won't satisfy you - you seem to think players should just not be allowed to pirate other players.

Time will tell, I am reserving judgment of what I think until after it gets released. I think piracy is fine but what happened in Diso was not piracy at all, it made no sense to oppose the community goal because the Green Party is in my opinion little more than opposing a farmer's co-op that happens to be allied to the Alliance faction. A pirate would realistically want to profit from their actions and would be after cargo keeping in mind that "you don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg". Expecting traders to abandon a whole load of cargo flies right in the face of logic as does not bothering to scoop any because it was not being done for monetary gains. Telling people to never come back and stay out and still letting others know that they are on a KOS list for various in and out of game reasons is hardly role playing a pirate it is just being a bully. A real reason for the opposition to this community goal beyond "we hate alliance" was never offered as far as I know.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

oh we're 'bullies' again i see.. rofl.. weren't you the guy who got all offended when i called PVE solo players wimps? honestly. come up with a better argument than 'waahn bullies'.

our reasons don't have to make sense to you, they just have to make sense to us.

 

[bossbrigand]

A real reason for the opposition to this community goal beyond "we hate alliance" was never offered as far as I know.

Is more reason required? If you oppose a faction, you should be able to act on that when a CG pops up for them. Such killings probably made up the majority of "griefing" that took place during the Diso CG.

If you're just a pirate without political motivation, you could go to the CG because there's likely to be lots of prey hauling decent cargo. And that's all the reason for that you should need.

Also, I've had Anacondas show up while privateering with my Clipper - so it's not just Eagles and Vipers - and while I can see a case being made for bigger ships being more common, I also don't think system security in general can effectively police their entire systems and probably wouldn't be sending out the big guns all the time.