Colonization and You!

[GKhan]

Face it, Elite Dangerous competes with a lot of new titles and shiny games for the gaming world to enjoy. The current meta seems to be set on a sustainable, open world, that players are able to interact with, making the world seem more inclusive to the player as well as player groups/guilds/etc. In order for Elite Dangerous to compete in this ever expanding market, we need to find a way to offer our players more reasons to stay here, with us. I know that this idea has been discussed before, but I feel it needs revisited - in a bad way. I have a Squadron with over 100 members that I have met over the last few years - and every single one of them has completely stopped playing, because they lose interest.

I believe that a move like this WILL bring players back, and sustain a larger player base as it will attract those who enjoy the types of features that we are lacking. I see a HUGE opportunity spread out before us in the form of a largely unexplored and empty galaxy, that is just sitting, wasting away, while players slowly abandon Elite for newer and shinier games, even if Elite has a nostalgic hold on them like it does me.

The opportunity for increasing concurrent player numbers and generating more sustainable income for Frontier is limitless here, especially now that so many more people are at home, and online.

1. Allow Squadrons to begin colonization of uninhabited systems (conditions apply) by requesting the placement of an Outpost.

*Squadrons will be required to deliver raw materials to assist with the completion of Outpost construction. 250,000 tons - roughly 15 full Fleet Carrier trips or a lot of cargo runs for those Type 9's.

*Squadrons can request a unique name for the outpost, which will be manned by members of the Squadrons in game faction OR similarly to how Fleet Carriers are manned, which will allow players and players groups MORE control of prices, commodities, and taxes. Personnel will arrive via means of 'Expansion' once construction is completed, or can be hired and customized by the player.

*Once the quota for raw materials has been met, a short construction phase begins (visually) and shortly after the outpost becomes operational.

*Unique missions become available at this outpost, only for players who have 'Allied' status with the controlling faction, that will allow the delivery of materials needed to repeat the process and eventually add a Station to the system in an area suitable to do so.

*Operation of facilities will depend on trade activity and mission completion at the Outpost/Station.

*If no missions or profit are achieved, the facility moves into 'Derelict' status, and factions will 'Retreat' from the system completely.

*Other players or squadrons that find Derelict facilities can have the option to expand their own Factions into that system by way of a mission to deliver around 45% of the initial construction phase requirements.

**Please feel free to add ideas and suggestions!

 

[varonica]

Face it, Elite Dangerous competes with a lot of new titles and shiny games for the gaming world to enjoy. The current meta seems

So, go play one of those instead of Elite?

 

[alexzk]

You cant keep people in Elite who got used to mobile games and 15-mins session games.
Young ones will not play here. So this is good game for old gamers. Basically last one. I cant play titles newer then 2014 except Elite (bcs those look dumb).

 

[CMDR Saigon]

Face it, Elite Dangerous competes with a lot of new titles and shiny games for the gaming world to enjoy. The current meta seems to be set on a sustainable, open world, that players are able to interact with, making the world seem more inclusive to the player as well as player groups/guilds/etc. In order for Elite Dangerous to compete in this ever expanding market, we need to find a way to offer our players more reasons to stay here, with us. I know that this idea has been discussed before, but I feel it needs revisited - in a bad way. I have a Squadron with over 100 members that I have met over the last few years - and every single one of them has completely stopped playing, because they lose interest.

I believe that a move like this WILL bring players back, and sustain a larger player base as it will attract those who enjoy the types of features that we are lacking. I see a HUGE opportunity spread out before us in the form of a largely unexplored and empty galaxy, that is just sitting, wasting away, while players slowly abandon Elite for newer and shinier games, even if Elite has a nostalgic hold on them like it does me.

The opportunity for increasing concurrent player numbers and generating more sustainable income for Frontier is limitless here, especially now that so many more people are at home, and online.

1. Allow Squadrons to begin colonization of uninhabited systems (conditions apply) by requesting the placement of an Outpost.

*Squadrons will be required to deliver raw materials to assist with the completion of Outpost construction. 250,000 tons - roughly 15 full Fleet Carrier trips or a lot of cargo runs for those Type 9's.

*Squadrons can request a unique name for the outpost, which will be manned by members of the Squadrons in game faction OR similarly to how Fleet Carriers are manned, which will allow players and players groups MORE control of prices, commodities, and taxes. Personnel will arrive via means of 'Expansion' once construction is completed, or can be hired and customized by the player.

*Once the quota for raw materials has been met, a short construction phase begins (visually) and shortly after the outpost becomes operational.

*Unique missions become available at this outpost, only for players who have 'Allied' status with the controlling faction, that will allow the delivery of materials needed to repeat the process and eventually add a Station to the system in an area suitable to do so.

*Operation of facilities will depend on trade activity and mission completion at the Outpost/Station.

*If no missions or profit are achieved, the facility moves into 'Derelict' status, and factions will 'Retreat' from the system completely.

*Other players or squadrons that find Derelict facilities can have the option to expand their own Factions into that system by way of a mission to deliver around 45% of the initial construction phase requirements.

**Please feel free to add ideas and suggestions!

Great idea!

 

[metatheurgist]

The superpowers should just squash all PMFs as the upstarts they are. I'd back that storyline.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

While some sort of limited base structure for CMDR groups (something like an antarctic station say) seems like a good idea, a fully active BGS asset feels like it should be out of reach of CMDRs as even a group asset. It's more of an immersion game than a world-building game. But that immersion should feel like it's within a somewhat living universe, and humanity's expansion shouldn't be as static as it is. And it's fitting that CMDRs, like with the rest of the BGS, could influence how that proceeds. I came up with a system where larger notional entities are responsible for the in-universe construction, but CMDR actions and the "lie of the land" influence where/when things are built:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...i-without-i-direct-executive-control-b.583935/

 

[GKhan]

So, go play one of those instead of Elite?

Really though?! Do YOU want a dead ass game with no one playing? Because that is what Elite is headed for in its current state. NOT ONE member of my squadron came back to try ODDY, not one... out of over 100 members.

 

[GKhan]

You cant keep people in Elite who got used to mobile games and 15-mins session games.
Young ones will not play here. So this is good game for old gamers. Basically last one. I cant play titles newer then 2014 except Elite (bcs those look dumb).

They (young ones) WILL play if offered something that can compete with newer titles. I LOVE this game, and I hate to see it slowly die. ODDY was like putting Elite on life support. Its still dying, just slower with ODDY. Out of the 115 or so in my Squadron, not one of them even came back to try ODDY.

 

[GroG79]

They will not come back if they can build a station... For sure numbers went down. But it is not that 1% remains.

On you idea: This will lead to the big PMFs expanding. Not much in it for the smaller PMFs. Not sure this is really viable. At least from experience I know 10 FCs is 'nothing'

 

[Zenow]

This is in line with the thread I just posted before reading yours.. could easily be combined. I fully agree, making the game more dynamic is a great way to keep players interested. And Odyssey is the key it.

 

[alexzk]

They (young ones) WILL play if offered something that can compete with newer titles. I LOVE this game, and I hate to see it slowly die. ODDY was like putting Elite on life support. Its still dying, just slower with ODDY. Out of the 115 or so in my Squadron, not one of them even came back to try ODDY.

Just wrong numbers. People who need squadrons/teams can't play Elite for long. I just joined some random sq. week ago while played alone for years. And still do, wanted just to try it.
So to see if it dies you need to count lonely wolfs.

 

[Chrystoph]

Why is it that the first thing these types of threads Always do it insist on it being a Squadron function?

Copied from: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/space-house.253634/post-3943170

My recommendation from previous threads along the station/base discussion:

First Quote

I would recommend that the resource gathering be limited to one or a couple of relatively generic commodities. For discussion's sake, call them "station components". These should only be available from High Tech localities. That way, you are bringing in pre-built modular components. This lends itself to group effort without requiring that a build plan be custom designed by FD every time someone submits for a facility.

To clarify, the facility creator would take components to the desired location, via haulage, and create a foundation.

If you add a banking system to the facility, other players can sell components to the facility to complete whatever the current task is (see below for specifics), thereby creating inclusion.


Second Quote

Emplacing the station foundation would get you a facility to land on (edit - a single large pad) which would be a respawn location, with the ability to add modules for additional capability.

Modules would include:

Black Market
Refuel
Repair
Restock
Security Hangar - Provides Station Security patrols
Others possible - Crafting, Engineering, etc

It would NOT have Bulletin Board, Commodities, Outfitting, Shipyard and Universal Cartography. (edit - struck because these have been implemented in FCs)

It would have the standard No-Fire zone.

It would not have a faction affiliation, and, as a result, it would not affect the BGS.

With the proposed banking system, the base can have an economy, providing repair, refueling and restock, presuming it has those modules. Black market recommended removed.

Third Quote

Building your own base on a planet, and making a SRV racetrack would be pretty cool.

Would require metals for delivery for upkeep and maintenance, and food deliveries for staff, and paying staff wages, to make it expensive enough to not spam them everywhere.

Seen this in other games, and it is not a good thing. You end up spending all your time husbanding the base, and the game becomes a chore. If you want expense, then make the base Cost to assemble, but the quoted proposal hasn't worked in any game I have seen where the environment is even close to as large as here.

Making the base so expensive to maintain that it becomes tedious will just end up being a waste of the developers' efforts since most people will have to spend a significant amount of time feeding the installation. If you must have a maintenance cost, make it credits, not something that players have to ship in.

Fourth Quote

Lastly, in order to combat the "build and forget" mentality, require "rent" be paid for the facility. DO NOT make this a resource farming exercise since it again prevents anyone without a massive player support or lots of time from having a facility. It should have a Credit cost which can interpreted as wages for station staff, budget for purchasing supplies, etc. A popup once per rent period asking if the player is willing to pay their rent, and 3 refusals in a row equals no more base.

Again, if the base has a bank, then the rent comes from the bank. If the bank cannot pay, the creator is contacted.

 

[Maolagin]

Variants on this suggestion come up with some regularity, and there's a couple of vital issues they rarely address.

First - the Bubble is already much too large for the size of the player base; the great majority of systems see at best sporadic traffic and meeting another player outside of plot or engineering hotspots is very rare. Systems available for colonization would necessarily be at the fringes of the Bubble, and therefore even lower traffic by default due to their great distance from centers of activity. How would this proposal add enough value to offset the cost of further diluting player traffic?

Second - Keeping in mind that carriers exist for beachheading systems, and that even medium-size player groups have no trouble dominating a populated home system, unless they have the misfortune to be placed next to a larger player group's space. It seems then that all that remains is the aspect of cosmetically controlling some NPC names and some flavor text in missions. What value would this system add for player groups beyond what they can already do? And why could Frontier not provide the same value more easily by, say, creating more cosmetic/customization options for existing player assets (i.e. carriers)?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

250,000 tons

This is the tricky thing.

A reasonably active medium-size squadron could easily haul that in a week. It's just over 300 Type 9 trips, so 50 people doing a trip a day have it done in a week easily.
A highly active large squadron could put down one or two daily (sure, there could be a limit of one per squadron, but they can create multiple squadrons and spread out members)

But it's still big enough to be out of range of the smaller groups and individuals without a lot of hauling over a period of weeks or more likely months.

In terms of membership, roughly one third of players-in-squadrons are in small (<10) squadrons, a third in medium (10-100), and a third in large (100-500). It might encourage the large squadrons, but they're probably mostly doing okay anyway. It's not an incentive to the smaller ones - or the majority of non-squadron players - because they can't really make use of it without massive grinding.

 

[DemiserofD]

I like the concept, but the cost is way lower than you'd want. You need to consider the speed at which OpIda is capable of working; they're often repairing damaged stations in a matter of days or weeks at most. This is, by nature, a very long-term project; you don't WANT a squadron coming in and colonizing a system in a single week. It should be the result of prolonged significant effort, and it should require tens or hundreds of billions of credits.

First - the Bubble is already much too large for the size of the player base; the great majority of systems see at best sporadic traffic and meeting another player outside of plot or engineering hotspots is very rare. Systems available for colonization would necessarily be at the fringes of the Bubble, and therefore even lower traffic by default due to their great distance from centers of activity. How would this proposal add enough value to offset the cost of further diluting player traffic?

Pragmatically, the bubble is already so huge, unless colonization were absurdly easy, the impact new systems would have would be minimal. There are what, 20000 systems in the bubble? Players could colonize 10 systems per week for an entire year and only increase that number by ~12%, and that's an ABSURDLY high number of systems being colonized. Pragmatically you'd expect more like a 1-3% increase per year, which is nowhere near enough to make a meaningful difference.

On top of this, there are already so few players that your chances of encountering another player is already virtually zero outside of a few specific systems. Unless you're in Shinrarta or the Engineer systems, the population is maybe 10 visitors per week at most. So colonization wouldn't have a meaningful impact in that regard, either. Players would still meet each other in the core systems, and would still never see one another everywhere else.

This is the tricky thing.

A reasonably active medium-size squadron could easily haul that in a week. It's just over 300 Type 9 trips, so 50 people doing a trip a day have it done in a week easily.
A highly active large squadron could put down one or two daily (sure, there could be a limit of one per squadron, but they can create multiple squadrons and spread out members)

But it's still big enough to be out of range of the smaller groups and individuals without a lot of hauling over a period of weeks or more likely months.

In terms of membership, roughly one third of players-in-squadrons are in small (<10) squadrons, a third in medium (10-100), and a third in large (100-500). It might encourage the large squadrons, but they're probably mostly doing okay anyway. It's not an incentive to the smaller ones - or the majority of non-squadron players - because they can't really make use of it without massive grinding.

Personally, I don't see any problem with this. If a small squadron wants to colonize a system, they'd need to recognize that doing so would be a very long-term effort. But that's okay! It's not like many players don't already spend huge amounts of time hauling or exploring anyway. All this would do is give them a semi-meaningful way to spend their credits.

Frankly, I think that 250000 tons is actually quite a bit too low. Assuming each commodity costs 5000c, that's only about 1.25b, or a quarter as much as a fleet carrier, and there are what, twenty THOUSAND fleet carriers in the game?

More realistically, the number should be more like 25000000 commodities, or 125 billion credits. Massive credit sink? Absolutely. But a massive source of content, too, for the players willing to make that investment.

This sort of thing was never going to be for the casual player, anyway.

 

[Misty_Dark]

I do not really get all these threads about squadron stuff. just look back at Fleet Carriers... to many players do want to have it. and what would the use of having this colony in some new system bring anyway?

I can understand for players to establish their own small bases, that they can build and expand at their own pace, and if they have friends building bases on the same planet/moon, they can build a subterranean railway to their friends bases, for easy visiting and marvel at their cool base. give the option to build a underground hangar where you can show case your ship fleet, walk/fly/drive around your ships, add backgrounds, lights etc to put your personal touch on it. No upkeep, and you can control who is allowed to dock at your base.

And in contrast to have their PMF, where we have passed the we have to many Squadrons, vs how many systems there are to establish a PMF.. so it is no longer possible for all the squadrons to be able to create their own PMF! that is a stupid limitation.

 

[CMDR Davanix]

I like the concept, but the cost is way lower than you'd want. You need to consider the speed at which OpIda is capable of working; they're often repairing damaged stations in a matter of days or weeks at most. This is, by nature, a very long-term project; you don't WANT a squadron coming in and colonizing a system in a single week. It should be the result of prolonged significant effort, and it should require tens or hundreds of billions of credits.



Pragmatically, the bubble is already so huge, unless colonization were absurdly easy, the impact new systems would have would be minimal. There are what, 20000 systems in the bubble? Players could colonize 10 systems per week for an entire year and only increase that number by ~12%, and that's an ABSURDLY high number of systems being colonized. Pragmatically you'd expect more like a 1-3% increase per year, which is nowhere near enough to make a meaningful difference.

On top of this, there are already so few players that your chances of encountering another player is already virtually zero outside of a few specific systems. Unless you're in Shinrarta or the Engineer systems, the population is maybe 10 visitors per week at most. So colonization wouldn't have a meaningful impact in that regard, either. Players would still meet each other in the core systems, and would still never see one another everywhere else.




Personally, I don't see any problem with this. If a small squadron wants to colonize a system, they'd need to recognize that doing so would be a very long-term effort. But that's okay! It's not like many players don't already spend huge amounts of time hauling or exploring anyway. All this would do is give them a semi-meaningful way to spend their credits.

Frankly, I think that 250000 tons is actually quite a bit too low. Assuming each commodity costs 5000c, that's only about 1.25b, or a quarter as much as a fleet carrier, and there are what, twenty THOUSAND fleet carriers in the game?

More realistically, the number should be more like 25000000 commodities, or 125 billion credits. Massive credit sink? Absolutely. But a massive source of content, too, for the players willing to make that investment.

This sort of thing was never going to be for the casual player, anyway.

Players havnt even hit the 1% galaxy explored yet in how many years.....so i dont see space being an issue lol

 

[CMDR Davanix]

Variants on this suggestion come up with some regularity, and there's a couple of vital issues they rarely address.

First - the Bubble is already much too large for the size of the player base; the great majority of systems see at best sporadic traffic and meeting another player outside of plot or engineering hotspots is very rare. Systems available for colonization would necessarily be at the fringes of the Bubble, and therefore even lower traffic by default due to their great distance from centers of activity. How would this proposal add enough value to offset the cost of further diluting player traffic?

Second - Keeping in mind that carriers exist for beachheading systems, and that even medium-size player groups have no trouble dominating a populated home system, unless they have the misfortune to be placed next to a larger player group's space. It seems then that all that remains is the aspect of cosmetically controlling some NPC names and some flavor text in missions. What value would this system add for player groups beyond what they can already do? And why could Frontier not provide the same value more easily by, say, creating more cosmetic/customization options for existing player assets (i.e. carriers)?

The above comment was meant in reply to you..not sure why i replied to the other guy lol

 

[DemiserofD]

I do not really get all these threads about squadron stuff. just look back at Fleet Carriers... to many players do want to have it. and what would the use of having this colony in some new system bring anyway?

I can understand for players to establish their own small bases, that they can build and expand at their own pace, and if they have friends building bases on the same planet/moon, they can build a subterranean railway to their friends bases, for easy visiting and marvel at their cool base. give the option to build a underground hangar where you can show case your ship fleet, walk/fly/drive around your ships, add backgrounds, lights etc to put your personal touch on it. No upkeep, and you can control who is allowed to dock at your base.

And in contrast to have their PMF, where we have passed the we have to many Squadrons, vs how many systems there are to establish a PMF.. so it is no longer possible for all the squadrons to be able to create their own PMF! that is a stupid limitation.

Pragmatically speaking, actual in-depth base building isn't likely, because it's so different from the rest of the game. You're never going to be able to go and manually place tunnels and buildings and things.

But you MIGHT be able to deliver commodities to boost the economy and population of a colony, and in doing so cause the dynamic creation of assets across the system. IE, you start with a small ground base, and gradually generate buildings, larger landing pads, etc, and eventually expand to an outpost or full-blown station.

Imagine if being allied with such a faction gave you a percentage of their weekly profits, similar to powerplay? The profits would be based on how many assets they possess. So you start with just the bare-bones base, which gives very little profit, but then you can expand it, and it dynamically adds mining rigs and agricultural domes, expanding out across the planet. Each of these not only indicates an increase in your weekly profit, but also allows the player to enter them and freely take some of the stuff from inside, if their reputation with the faction is high enough.

It would be, essentially, an investment that pays off in months or years. But once you have that many credits available, you could add new options to soak it up. Building a faction battlecruiser, for example, to attack or defend yourself from other battlecruisers. Consider games like EVE; there is no victory condition, teams just take as much territory as possible to gain more resources to take yet more territory, burning trillions upon trillions of credits in battle.

But from a gameplay standpoint, it gives players something meaningful to do, something that lasts for years and still feels like you've accomplished something. Right now, once you buy your fleet carrier and engineered your ships, what more is there to do?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

You cant keep people in Elite who got used to mobile games and 15-mins session games.
Young ones will not play here. So this is good game for old gamers. Basically last one. I cant play titles newer then 2014 except Elite (bcs those look dumb).

Joke's on you. I am 27 and loving it.

With respect, this whole "haha young people stupid and impatient" jazz needs to stop yesterday.