Combat is way too hard - getting too frustrated with ED

[mgbnet]

I've spent several hours trying to kill Crimson Triumph with no joy. I've seen all the comments about practicing combat lots and using a HOTA joystick set-up but I have to say that I am not a seasoned gamer, I don't have lots of hours to invest in practicing (I have a family and a full time job), and I'm not willing to shell out lots of cash on fancy controller set ups.

I have no problem with the trading, general flight and docking aspects of ED (using xbox controller) but if a basic combat scenario is so hard I am not going to be able to pick up this game and noodle around on it when I do get chance to grab a free hour or so.

Most attempts on that mission I do not even get to reduce his hull % at all, let alone get near destroying him. It's leaving me very frustrated. I was an avid Elite player back in the day and was very excited to jump on the Kickstarter campaign, but this frustration is making me think it was money poorly invested.

Yes, I saw the thread on how modern console games have "ruined" realistic games, and I get there is a crowd that loves realism and has plenty of time and motivation to invest in getting skilled, but for us with limited time and want a more of a drop-in/drop-out gaming experience ED is going to be very disappointing.

I really hope this improves as the beta progresses, otherwise it is going to end up a very niche game with a select (highly skilled) audience...


Just my two cents, having been on the betas for a little while now...

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

I've spent several hours trying to kill Crimson Triumph with no joy. I've seen all the comments about practicing combat lots and using a HOTA joystick set-up but I have to say that I am not a seasoned gamer, I don't have lots of hours to invest in practicing (I have a family and a full time job), and I'm not willing to shell out lots of cash on fancy controller set ups.

I have no problem with the trading, general flight and docking aspects of ED (using xbox controller) but if a basic combat scenario is so hard I am not going to be able to pick up this game and noodle around on it when I do get chance to grab a free hour or so.

Most attempts on that mission I do not even get to reduce his hull % at all, let alone get near destroying him. It's leaving me very frustrated. I was an avid Elite player back in the day and was very excited to jump on the Kickstarter campaign, but this frustration is making me think it was money poorly invested.

Yes, I saw the thread on how modern console games have "ruined" realistic games, and I get there is a crowd that loves realism and has plenty of time and motivation to invest in getting skilled, but for us with limited time and want a more of a drop-in/drop-out gaming experience ED is going to be very disappointing.

I really hope this improves as the beta progresses, otherwise it is going to end up a very niche game with a select (highly skilled) audience...


Just my two cents, having been on the betas for a little while now...

Crimson Triumph with Mouse and Keyboard.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEy9PGjDFig

Not particularly well played either.

Use your lateral thrusters and get in close.

 

[peteuplink]

I was pretty good at combat in the original Elite, but really poor at it in Frontier Elite 2. I've found combat in Elite Dangerous to be a mixed bag. The combat missions I gave up on after the 3rd one, as I too found them a bit frustrating, but I've not fared too badly in combat with the AI while playing in open mode.

When I got interdicted in my Sidewinder I usually had a go to see if I could lower the NPC's shields first. If I did I figured I'd got a fair chance and kept fighting. If I didn't I simply put all my power to engines and systems and beat a hasty retreat. Last time I barely escaped with 1% hull left... Now I'm in the Hauler, and I've removed the gun I got with it, I simply keep all my power to engines, and 2 pips in systems, and run for it if the interdiction is a hostile one.

 

[Tox Laximus]

Most games cater for the casual player as in someone who works and plays a couple of hours a day, ed has a very narrow market and wont sell many copies.

 

[Tinman]

I've spent several hours trying to kill Crimson Triumph with no joy. I've seen all the comments about practicing combat lots and using a HOTA joystick set-up but I have to say that I am not a seasoned gamer, I don't have lots of hours to invest in practicing (I have a family and a full time job), and I'm not willing to shell out lots of cash on fancy controller set ups.

I have no problem with the trading, general flight and docking aspects of ED (using xbox controller) but if a basic combat scenario is so hard I am not going to be able to pick up this game and noodle around on it when I do get chance to grab a free hour or so.

Most attempts on that mission I do not even get to reduce his hull % at all, let alone get near destroying him. It's leaving me very frustrated. I was an avid Elite player back in the day and was very excited to jump on the Kickstarter campaign, but this frustration is making me think it was money poorly invested.

Yes, I saw the thread on how modern console games have "ruined" realistic games, and I get there is a crowd that loves realism and has plenty of time and motivation to invest in getting skilled, but for us with limited time and want a more of a drop-in/drop-out gaming experience ED is going to be very disappointing.

I really hope this improves as the beta progresses, otherwise it is going to end up a very niche game with a select (highly skilled) audience...


Just my two cents, having been on the betas for a little while now...

Personally I think the balance is pretty good right now, but of course this differ from person to person. Quick tip for that particular mission is to boost as soon as the mission starts, then try to use lateral thrusters (or flight assist off) so that you fly by the opponent while at the same time spinning around so that you get on his tail. Then just try to stay there.

Frontier was in many was a lot harder. Without the ability to save at any given time, and thus try over and over again while in a combat, people would have died all the time in that game.

Keep in mind though that combat is just one of many activities in the final game so there might be other things you will find more your cup of tea. I'm quite surprised how much I have enjoyed the combat actually since this was never what attracted me to the previous games. When the final game comes I'll probably be exploring more than anything.

 

[Nonoka]

Most games cater for the casual player as in someone who works and plays a couple of hours a day, ed has a very narrow market and wont sell many copies.

..and this is a good thing.

The casual crowd has twenty years of knuckle dragging games to play already, nobody is going to miss them if they pass this one up.

If you expect to have a magic unicorn crap purple loot on your chest just for logging in, this is not the game for you.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I really hope this improves as the beta progresses, otherwise it is going to end up a very niche game with a select (highly skilled) audience...

FWIW I haven't completed the single player campaign things - couldn't be bothered. Maybe that's why I am terrible at the game. 7 deaths by NPCs to 2 NPC kills ... yeah - I am that good

However .. even if you're terrible at it - so what. Worst case is that you play online solo or with friends, and if you can't do combat hire a wingman (feature coming) or ask a friend to help.

Not everyone can be a combat ace

 

[rayvon]

This whole genre is pretty much a small niche.

Niche game does not mean poor game or unsuccessful game, just a game that does not cater for the moronic masses, and that's a good thing.

Its still early days yet, there is plenty more to be added, I would be patient, although if its a instant gratification you want, I doubt this will ever be the place for it.

 

[Swan]

I've been finding combat hard too. I've got my new viper and took on an Anaconda, but the blasted thing was outmanoeuvering me! I did figure out staying 'in the blue' and using vertical thrusters did enhance my turn rate so sort of 'cracked it'.

I do play with m&k - shouldn't make a difference but it seems to. I would fiddle with the control settings but wouldn't have a clue where to start. Just a straight 'mouse sensitivity' option would help!

I'm hoping that they do de-nerf the flight assist 'off' option. That'd make dogfights lots more jam packed with action IMHO.

 

[Vandaahl]

I've spent several hours trying to kill Crimson Triumph with no joy.

Well, I guess you got Crimson Triumph on one end of the spectrum, and a bazillion utter plonkers on the other end. Have you played online yet? I don't even know where to start...

I think Crimson Triumph is just a of what AI can do. Don't think he will be a role model for general NPC. Just my $ 0.02

 

[TrinityDejavu]

..and this is a good thing.

The casual crowd has twenty years of knuckle dragging games to play already, nobody is going to miss them if they pass this one up.

If you expect to have a magic unicorn crap purple loot on your chest just for logging in, this is not the game for you.

Yes .. Lets keep Elite just for a tiny 'Elite' few, that will ensure it's longevity.

 

[BuyWonderBread]

I am just recently getting into the flight sim genre. Primarily this is because of my enjoyment of Arma 3. I've ordered the x55 and, in the mean time, borrowed my buddies x52 (non pro). I have enjoyed the combat and don't find it to be a problem after putting in some practice and getting controls setup to my liking. I have found Trackir to be invaluable in aiding my situational awareness also though.​

I think, with more practice and possibly even a meager investment in a basic hotas setup, you can achieve desirable results. The progress problem I see is that you are plainly saying you don't want to put in excessive practice or shell out money on things that will be of benefit to you in combat. This game appears to be a flight sim, in it's current state, and I know that I'd prefer the combat remain as is then to have it dumbed down further. It just feels more rewarding to keep it as is imo.​

 

[Half Giant]

I've spent several hours trying to kill Crimson Triumph with no joy. I've seen all the comments about practicing combat lots and using a HOTA joystick set-up but I have to say that I am not a seasoned gamer, I don't have lots of hours to invest in practicing (I have a family and a full time job), and I'm not willing to shell out lots of cash on fancy controller set ups.

I have no problem with the trading, general flight and docking aspects of ED (using xbox controller) but if a basic combat scenario is so hard I am not going to be able to pick up this game and noodle around on it when I do get chance to grab a free hour or so.

Most attempts on that mission I do not even get to reduce his hull % at all, let alone get near destroying him. It's leaving me very frustrated. I was an avid Elite player back in the day and was very excited to jump on the Kickstarter campaign, but this frustration is making me think it was money poorly invested.

Yes, I saw the thread on how modern console games have "ruined" realistic games, and I get there is a crowd that loves realism and has plenty of time and motivation to invest in getting skilled, but for us with limited time and want a more of a drop-in/drop-out gaming experience ED is going to be very disappointing.

I really hope this improves as the beta progresses, otherwise it is going to end up a very niche game with a select (highly skilled) audience...


Just my two cents, having been on the betas for a little while now...

The Crimson Triumph is really tough, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you know how to thrust while turning and how to use power distribution pips then you've learnt all you need to. To be honest I've never tried him on keyboard and mouse. But I know that I haven't seen an NPC in the game that flies as well as he does. So if you've got the above 2 skills feel free to jump into the game. If not read the hints before the mission starts and try again. But don't worry about him too much.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

It is unfortunate that many people are expecting to be proficient in a very short amount of time.

Any game where early proficiency is evident is a game that lacks substantial depth.

Games like Quake took months to get proficient due to the movement mechanics. The same with games like Tribes 1 and 2.

Games like the Arma series require a planned approach, patience and a knowledge of the control system. Again it takes time because of the amount of things you can do.

Elite: Dangerous is not a Call of Duty clone in space where all one has to do is turn and shoot. It is not a twitch game nor is it a drawn out simple game. The developers want to create a rich game full of options. It is through this richness that players will be able to develop their own play style and get good at it.

I am used to deep games so I honestly do not find Elite" Dangerous difficult at all. I have also been playing since the Alpha so I have been able to adapt over time to its mechanics. Nevertheless a lot of the complaints appear to me to come from people who have not really spent much time practicing. Sure they may have flown around and docked a lot but if you want to learn combat you have to practice combat. Also take it slow in the sense that you can think about what goes wrong and change it up.

When I first played Crimson Triumph in the new build I was absolutely demolished. I realised that I had to prevent myself from receiving sustained fire so I immediately boosted into the enemy at the start to get close. Players need to figure things like that out.

Simply change it up if what you are doing is not working. If it is still not working take a break or ask for advice. Don't throw the game under the bus and imply it is broken or needed to be made easier. By doing that you are only serving to promote the depth being removed from the game. Games that are easy get boring quickly. Games that are challenging keep people challenging it.

I still play a game called Tribes 2 thirteen years after it was released because it is still challenging. I can still improve. I can still work on perfecting various ski routes etc.

I really hope Elite is another game like that. A game where we can mix up ships and equipment and perfect our flying styles. Where we can work on differing areas like FA off so as to increase our edge.

Elite is going to be a game with areas of relative safety and areas of extreme danger. Thus a player will be able to choose where they want to play. The high the risk the higher the payoff.

Patience and practice is key.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Well, I guess you got Crimson Triumph on one end of the spectrum, and a bazillion utter plonkers on the other end. Have you played online yet? I don't even know where to start...

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say...

 

[metatheurgist]

Haven't tried to played too much with mouse - control just felt too slippery. Crimson Triumph was a pushover with a stick, having seen some of the combat vids I wouldn't even consider myself as being a competent combat pilot. Have yet to finish the combat scenarios.

Having done a bit of trading, as long as you stay in safe systems there seems to be virtually no danger. Was interdicted once, decided not to stick around and see if it was combat related. Even casual players that just want to fly around and see the sights should be able to enjoy this game.

FWIW I haven't completed the single player campaign things - couldn't be bothered. Maybe that's why I am terrible at the game. 7 deaths by NPCs to 2 NPC kills ... yeah - I am that good

However .. even if you're terrible at it - so what. Worst case is that you play online solo or with friends, and if you can't do combat hire a wingman (feature coming) or ask a friend to help.

Not everyone can be a combat ace

So...how's the pirate career going?

 

[JackWeaver]

To the OP

Yes Crimson Triumph is a harder IA opponent, I do think that mission has been toned down a little since A4. Still he/she is no pushover.

To be honest I don't think the combat versus AI is going to be made easier as that would be no good for the rest of us. What you should consider is that it is entirely possible to play and avoid combat... mostly . If you really do want to join the fray, pick your battles carefully, be prepared to retreat if required and keep enough cash to be able to replace your ship.

Look at it another way. Surviving is the challenge more than winning, epic battles and narrow escapes are equally rewarding experiences.

 

[Hermit]

The OP has to remember that these combat missions are created to train you in the game. You get through them by working things out. The Crimson Triumph scenario seems to teach you into dodging incoming fire from a better opponent whilst returning that fire back (as well as transfering power from one system to another). Also boosting away when in trouble.

It took a few attempts before I got good enough to take him on and defeat him. Now I seem to always start with that scenario to get me into the game whenever I fire it up

But, from what the OP is saying, I have the feeling that he might be going in there full speed. That might work on the First Kill scenario, but doesn't on Crimson Triumph. So try reducing your speed by at least half and try again

 

[Ramireza]

Yes .. Lets keep Elite just for a tiny 'Elite' few, that will ensure it's longevity.

Well, in this case better an dead ED as an Casual ED. I am FED UP of this easy, hand-holdy Games made for apes, realy.

@OP : If you REALY tried this scenario for HOURS (Though you didnt have much time) then THIS PART is not your strengh. Well, i am a bad trader, maybe should play together?

 

[MrBungle]

CT is absolutely killable. It's a matter of practice . No time to practice ? Like a lot of people who bought into this game recently (judging by comments on here), you may have bought the wrong game (or stick to online; but even the skills in that take time to learn). The developers should not be dumbing down the game or making it 'easier' purely for people who are time poor. If you're time poor, then obviously it's going to take you longer to get your chops up than someone who can pour time into it.

That's the way it is & hopefully stays.

@Ramireza - Wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence.

Edit - Also agree with comments by JW/Hermit/others - beating all the solo missions isn't that necessary, they're absolutely about survival in several cases, so consider them an opportunity to practice evasion skills. Human players will eat you alive without those.