COMBAT LOGGING solution -= EASY and WORKING =-

[Ziggy Stardust]

Can someone show me where it specifically stated that I cannot shut the game down when I want when I bought the game 9 months before release? :S

This has puzzled me as well. I mean I do feel combat logging is cheating, but when you use windows task manager to kill a task, at what point does Frontier/Elite Dangerous has a say in when and how I use a windows functionality?

 

[Yaffle]

Can someone show me where it specifically stated that I cannot shut the game down when I want when I bought the game 9 months before release? :S

EULA section 3a, as clarified here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728

Hello Commanders!

This is a quick update to let you guys know what we’re looking at regarding the issue of “combat logging”.

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game.

First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously.

On a related, but separate track, we’re looking at introducing benefits to Commanders that persevere and stick it out through dangerous encounters, as well as general credit costs and rewards balancing.

I’m not quite ready to talk about these in more detail just now. Obviously though, they can never counter the potential costs of ship destruction, but we want to look at a range of disincentives and incentives both to counter this issue.

I hope this helps clarify our position a little.

Which means you CAN shut the game down when you want, via the usual menu method.

 

[Heater]

Simple fix..... if under attack (I am sure this is registered) and you Combat log, you lose it anyway! the CMDR / NPC that had the last hit kits the kill / bounty etc.

 

[SnowyNI]

It's not about the rebuy. Mostly that is recovered in a trivial amount of time.

For some... for me? It would be all about the rebuy, I've no time to waste on re-grinding my trade runs just because someone wants giggles.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I don't think the rebuy is generally the main cause of combat logging.

I believe the cause is basically being attacked without consequence.

Add the consequence, "griefing" goes down, combat logging goes down.

As to what the consequence is, it's anyone guess.
We've had 100s of excellent ideas, just gotta wait for FD to do something with them.

 

[bootsam]

Good point Ziggy. Ive had to use TM often lately to kill ED as now Ive gone VR it seems to have an issue with the keyboard when I press Esc to quit the game. This happens a lot when non VR it never happened at all. I can sit there for eons holding, pressing, hitting, shouting at the damned Esc key and nothing happens.

 

[Nerwan]

This has puzzled me as well. I mean I do feel combat logging is cheating, but when you use windows task manager to kill a task, at what point does Frontier/Elite Dangerous has a say in when and how I use a windows functionality?

There's lots of things like this in life.. I mean I could walk out of work right now because it's my human right to be able to come and go as I please but I'd still be in beach of contract.. In the case of Frontier I suppose that contract is essentially the terms of service which you implicitly agree to in order to be able to connect to their server. They have the right to withdraw access to that server if you don't follow it's rules.

 

[Yaffle]

Good point Ziggy. Ive had to use TM often lately to kill ED as now Ive gone VR it seems to have an issue with the keyboard when I press Esc to quit the game. This happens a lot when non VR it never happened at all. I can sit there for eons holding, pressing, hitting, shouting at the damned Esc key and nothing happens.

What support ticket number has that attached?

 

[Noctover]

EULA section 3a, as clarified here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728



Which means you CAN shut the game down when you want, via the usual menu method.

Thanks for clarifying but I'm guessing your still going to get responses about how "i paid for the game i'll do what i want" or how it "violates my human rights" or some other defensive response of the notorious combat log .

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

How about a Report Unwarranted Attack Flag, like the Report crimes, you can turn on/off. It doesn't actaully report anything but the attacking player gets a warning with his first shot that his target has this option turned on. The Attacker can then continue or stop. If the "Flaggged" ship is destroyed by the other player both ships blow up and face a rebuy screen. C.loggers would still face the rebuy if disconnected before the timer. Now, both sides face consequences and have decisions to make which should help to reduce the cost of rebuy because it's easier to identify people that want/don't mind PvP vs that don't.

p.s. I'm completely not serious about this and I threw that last sentence in to make it look "on topic" without that really being the case.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

EULA section 3a, as clarified here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728

Which means you CAN shut the game down when you want, via the usual menu method.

I'm aware of the FD statement, but I am wondering whether they have the right to have any say in my use of the task manager. My windows, my pc, my call to shut down anything whenever I darn well please.

(Disclaimer: I would never and think CL is disgraceful)

 

[bootsam]

What support ticket number has that attached?

I havent bothered yet as I figured its probably something wrong at my end. I'll get to the problem and solution eventually. In the meantime I am in/out doing settings testing etc. To get VR as I imagined it. Nearly there.

Note: my End Tasking only happens in station or just outside station. Plus only in Group or Solo and never whilst under threat so I figure its fine. Its not combat logging if tehres no combat involved.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Simple fix..... if under attack (I am sure this is registered) and you Combat log, you lose it anyway! the CMDR / NPC that had the last hit kits the kill / bounty etc.

Ugh, not to ruin your plan, but ED isn't known for the most stable of servers. Lol
And we get quite a few CTDs, especially in combat.

Also, my internet likes to throw a wobbly randomly. BT have "fixed" it. And by that, I mean they did nothing.

So all in all, it could create more problems than it solved. Lol

Best bet, if going down this route, is similar to your idea, but if someone is caught illegally combat logging repeatedly , FD punish them with either a shadowban, and/or ship destruction.

 

[babelfisch]

People who start the fight combat log regularly too. Especially powerplay / opposing faction.

That's what I said.

 

[Cosmos]

This has puzzled me as well. I mean I do feel combat logging is cheating, but when you use windows task manager to kill a task, at what point does Frontier/Elite Dangerous has a say in when and how I use a windows functionality?

You could make the same argument for installing cheats on your computer. No company can stop you but they do get to decide what they do if you use them. Seems like a pedantic sort of argument anyway.

 

[Noctover]

I'm aware of the FD statement, but I am wondering whether they have the right to have any say in my use of the task manager. My windows, my pc, my call to shut down anything whenever I darn well please.

(Disclaimer: I would never and think CL is disgraceful)

They don't, you wont be prosecuted or taken to prison, fined, but they DO have a say in who can login to their servers and by not following their rules you will not be one of them.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You could make the same argument for installing cheats on your computer. No company can stop you but they do get to decide what they do if you use them.

Cheats adjust parameters within the game. And I still need the game's code to make use of them.

Seems like a pedantic sort of argument anyway.

I think it's a good question as well

They don't, you wont be prosecuted or taken to prison, fined, but they DO have a say in who can login to their servers and by not following their rules you will not be one of them.

So in my contract when I bought the game there should be an explicit mention.

I bet it's something along the lines of: FD is free to dream up any rule they like while you're using this product, and if you don't like it you can join the club.

 

[shadragon]

#1 post that is not helping the problem at ALL! Great, man. Report them is not a solution. It didn't help for the last 2 years, it won't help in the future. None of the loggers cares about the EULA. Do you cross the street if the signal is red? No, you never do? Poor soul.

It helps Frontier establish the parameters to automatically detect this sort of thing. Reporting them is not a solution, it is the beginnings of one. Ignoring it does nothing.

Spoiler

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

[video=youtube_share;lkKwyjsJGxk]https://youtu.be/lkKwyjsJGxk[/video]

 

[Andovar]

Simple fix..... if under attack (I am sure this is registered) and you Combat log, you lose it anyway! the CMDR / NPC that had the last hit kits the kill / bounty etc.

Not a simple fix.
I was in a CZ the other night night. Got disconnected twice. This plan would have me facing 2 rebuys. Not exactly what i would call a fair fix.

 

[Yaffle]

I'm aware of the FD statement, but I am wondering whether they have the right to have any say in my use of the task manager. My windows, my pc, my call to shut down anything whenever I darn well please.

(Disclaimer: I would never and think CL is disgraceful)

It's nothing to do with your machine, it's to do with the game itself. The Law of the UK does not prohibit you from carrying a football, but you won't be playing a game of football for very long if you tried it as an outfield player.