Complexity, to little to much?

[Mobius]

one of the phrases that bounce around this forum is Keep it simple stupid.

with that in mind and reading through the DDF archives and current topics.
do you think that elite is getting to complicated or is there still room to add more to the game.

has elite turned into a rock paper scissor game or is it turning into a stat heavy spreadsheet like EVE Online, maybe it will turn out like a unplayable X3 game with its physics.

maybe its to early to tell without playing the Alpha, but then maybe its already to late.

I know some people want a serious space simulation while asking questions to how a ship would dock with a rotating space station if x is moviing at 1.6 rotations per mins while traveling at 3.2 giga sqiggles upwards.

then there are people who want to play elite as an adventure RPG and cant be bothered with realistic space physics. and just want a fun space game that doesnt require a autistic brain to remember all the keys and stats when being fired at by another player.

im adding a poll to just to get a feel of how many of you are seeing the development of the game,

what your opinion?

 

[Jenner]

It's too early to tell, but I voted that they'll find the right balance. It doesn't need to be an Orbiter-level physics experiment with the flight, nor an X or EVE style spreadsheet management game. It should be a fun space adventure with somewhat simplified controls that has enough meat to sink your teeth into re: the economy and exploration to keep players interested. I think they're trying to do just that. I don't get the impression from David and Co. that they're trying to fundamentally change the game from what it was originally.

 

[graham.reeds]

I might do a poll to see if people are bored with pointless polls.

 

[Luniticisi]

With all of the things we has seen played out before us, all of the footage that made me pledge to the game in the first place, there is always a niggle in the back of my mind as, everything we have seen from the kickstarter to the "Capital Ship Battle Video" we are being told more and more now ... is not representative of the game. So what are we getting ?

Only Frontier know what game we have brought, this notion of buying a game before the developer seems to have decided the direction/complexity and what not of the final game is pretty insane and a matter of trust and belief.

Give me what I have seen so far, that is why I pledged ... don't go down the slippery slope of 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' or 'Rome: 2' .. Showing the fans one thing and delivering another.

So in my view make it accessible to the masses and you will have a hit on your hands .. Make it over complex and you will please a good few people but the key word there is 'Few' .. the original Elite pretty much outsold both sequels ... My view ..

a bit of a rant there, Oops !


*edit ... I voted for 2, I have faith in the Braben,the rock and the almighty Disco Horse

 

[Robert Maynard]

Option 2 please Mobius!

As a player of the original, I am used to the "planes in space" control method - I would not wish to have to endure jousting matches in space.

 

[ianw]

I think the DDF archive just shows a great deal of detail - things always look more complicated when you see all the ins and outs written down.

I guess we'll see when we get to play alpha...

Went for 2.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

First, typo ****, "too little, too much"

Second, we shouldn't really talk about this. Direction is set. Everyone following news know more or less what we will get. They are trying to reach golden middle point (which is subjective of course). Will they succeed - it's hard to tell, but we as community helping them trough DDF proposals, general forum discussions, and soon alphas and betas.

 

[Luniticisi]

First, typo ****, "too little, too much"

Second, we shouldn't really talk about this. Direction is set. Everyone following news know more or less what we will get. They are trying to reach golden middle point (which is subjective of course). Will they succeed - it's hard to tell, but we as community helping them trough DDF proposals, general forum discussions, and soon alphas and betas.

Why shouldn't we be talking about it, this is a fan forum after all ... and all of the news, design discussions and footage have all made it clear that they are subject to change, so I have to disagree and say that we have no idea of what the final outcome of the game will be, we have an idea but nothing factual yet.

so I feel that Mobius' poll is completely valid and these questions should be asked, discussed and answered.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I voted for the option 2. A balance between complexity and fun, because the game has to be accessible to everybody. Obviously, the more we shall progress in the ranking Elite, the more there will be of complex things to realize for to progress.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why shouldn't we be talking about it, this is a fan forum after all ... and all of the news, design discussions and footage have all made it clear that they are subject to change, so I have to disagree and say that we have no idea of what the final outcome of the game will be, we have an idea but nothing factual yet.

so I feel that Mobius' poll is completely valid and these questions should be asked, discussed and answered.

I think you misunderstood me - I *personally* think it is not worth discussion. However I can't deny other fans their rights to do that, and I wouldn't even if I could. I just think that information is clearly enough to do so called "educated guess". Yeah, proposals, videos, etc. are "subject of change", but it gives overall direction and feel. And for me this direction is quite clear and approved. Maybe I'm wrong, and it will be completely different, but I think that's hardly possible (unless there's second secret team which works on actual game).

 

[PacalB]

so I feel that Mobius' poll is completely valid and these questions should be asked, discussed and answered.

Yeah, and these polls are a bit like watching cats being herded.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Give me what I have seen so far, that is why I pledged ... don't go down the slippery slope of 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' or 'Rome: 2' .. Showing the fans one thing and delivering another.

This.

Bring on the realism, because spaceships dont fly like that in real space

Not this.

In 1,300 years time smaller ships probably will. Mentioned it elsewhere so I'll mention it here - the realism brigade blindly accept humans have invented a technology so complex and incredible that it can propel us across the galaxy in nano-seconds, but don't seem to grasp the probability that we'll have the nous to invent retros, thrusters, and fly-by-wire systems that gives the pilot some top notch maneuverability in low mass ships. If anything that would be considered old school technology compared the new hyperdirves. They're applying 21st century thinking to a 23rd century 'fantasy' future. I'm fine with full Newtonian physics for larger vessels, but not the smaller nimble combat fighters.

 

[Luniticisi]

Yeah, and these polls are a bit like watching cats being herded.

Whats not fun about that?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

In 1,300 years time smaller ships probably will. Mentioned it elsewhere so I'll mention it here - the realism brigade blindly accept humans have invented a technology so complex and incredible that it can propel us across the galaxy in nano-seconds, but don't seem to grasp the probability we'll have the nous to invent retros, thrusters, and fly-by-wire systems that gives the pilot some top notch maneuverability in low mass ships. They're applying 21st century thinking to a 23rd century 'fantasy' future. I'm fine with full Newtonian physics for larger vessels, but not the smaller nimble combat fighters.

Seconded. My relations with Newtonian flight is love/hate. I love freedom it represents in FE/FFE, but I hate complexity. Still, for long travels it made a lot of sense, because if you don't want to waste fuel, you would like to travel in space like mother nature has intended to (although it wasn't perfect implementation anyway). However, for battles it was stifling. I know how to fly with engines off and with manual thrusters, but still - in so far in future my pick that fly-by-wire systems would be first designed even before discovering hyper travel. For fun and challenge though you should have possibility to turn off flight assist or get it damaged (as current offer stands).

 

[Mobius]

I might do a poll to see if people are bored with pointless polls.

one of the questions you could add to your poll.

1: do you enjoy posting pointless criticisms just to Troll the forums without adding constructive criticisms.

 

[Luniticisi]

I have tried time and time again to play the frontier style of flight (and that seems to be the elephant in the room or the main bug-bear when it comes to this game), Just yesterday I set myself a task .. to play FFE all day ... (albeit FFED3D)

All I found the game to be was just like a point and click game. Go to map, choose a destination, hyperspace (after you did the only flying you needed to do ... Launch, look up press enter for a short time) ... set star dreamer on max ... I need to dock ... set star dreamer on max ... docked! .. it was like I had no real control of the ship .. I wasn't flying it .. the computer was, Oh and don't mention the combat ... to those that loved it, fair play to you .. to me it wasn't fun .. it was Kakapoopoo, So in my view if you want immersion fly the ship yourself, it might take a while to get where you are going but to me there was 0,Zero,nish,nout,**** all immersion with the star dreamer system.

I want to have fun, I want a great multi-player experience and most of all I want ELITE, not Frontier .. after all the game is called Elite: Dangerous not Frontier: Dangerous.

This is just my view, which I am entitled to

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

With all of the things we has seen played out before us, all of the footage that made me pledge to the game in the first place, there is always a niggle in the back of my mind as, everything we have seen from the kickstarter to the "Capital Ship Battle Video" we are being told more and more now ... is not representative of the game. So what are we getting ?

That's British way of saying that not everything will be same as you see in video. Gosh. It would be better say "yeah, it's that cool and more"? No wonder FD don't want to release any videos.

Only Frontier know what game we have brought, this notion of buying a game before the developer seems to have decided the direction/complexity and what not of the final game is pretty insane and a matter of trust and belief.

Well, that's how crowdfunding works, it's not insane. People pledge hundred times more to causes which are purely scams. People have certain trust to FD. And I think after these 8 months we trust them more and more.

Give me what I have seen so far, that is why I pledged ... don't go down the slippery slope of 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' or 'Rome: 2' .. Showing the fans one thing and delivering another.

'Alien: Colonial Marines' developers claimed that demo level they demoed is representative of game. Both "A:CM" and "Rome 2" where just pushed out of gates because of publisher's deadlines, so it's interesting that you mention that.

Michael and Ashley many times have said, that trailer is scripted, and while there's lot of stuff which is valid (like visual assets), some of it don't. You can easily guess what's in game and what's not about it.

So in my view make it accessible to the masses and you will have a hit on your hands .. Make it over complex and you will please a good few people but the key word there is 'Few' .. the original Elite pretty much outsold both sequels ... My view

I think you overestimate interest of masses in this genre. They're certainly people who would like to play good space sim, but they are minority.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

I think Frontier are treading the line just right between the complexity needed to make a really decent game, and making it accessible enough that players won't feel encumbered out of the box. Nuff said.

 

[withnail]

I think the OP has a valid point and voted for 2.

I don't normally do polls either but this one piqued my interest.

 

[Mobius]

I think the OP has a valid point and voted for 2.

I don't normally do polls either but this one piqued my interest.

thanks.

the poll is really for me to see how others feel about the game. I wasn't sure if people thought that the game was turning into something other than what was sold to us. so far it feels that most are happy feeling that ED is developing how they expected it.