Confession of a shameless Mode Switcher...

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Must admit, I don't really get the whole "I don't play enough to make progress if I don't use expoits" argument.

Are there other games where you can expect to make the same progress as somebody who's played for twice as long as you?
If you're the person who has played for twice as long, wouldn't you expect that commitment to yield an advantage over somebody who's only played for half as long?

Personally, the only reason that exploits bother me is that they create the potential to give a player an advantage over other people which they haven't really "earned".
As long as you're not using exploits to give yourself an advantage which you then deliberately use against other players, fill your boots. [up]

Let me help you:
ED is not a F2P game. A consumer pays full price for its content. ED is marketed as SP capable. Some people might want to experience the conetent they paid for.

 

[CMDR-AD]

If you've got that kind of free time to waste, knock yourself out. [wacko]

But calling switching an exploit is...well... a bit clueless, actually. [wacky]

Well, to be fair I don't think that's Frontier's design intent. I believe their goal is more likely for the player to go do some gameplay actions. Fly somewhere else. Take a mission to another system, check the board there as part of that action. At intervals (very possibly less than 15 minutes, on average) a rank mission will appear. In the mean time, those action also have built minor faction reputation, earned credits, and likely advanced the 3 Elite rank progress bars.

But the disconnect happens, IMO, because this play loop is buried by the vastly higher credit earnings for the same amount of play time. It leads to wealthy CMDRs who may not even care about any credits earned for 90% of the intended play loop. Thus leaves money and time to burn, relogging to find charity missions becomes the path of greater efficiency.

 

[Morbad]

Let me help you:
ED is marketed as SP capable. Some people might want to experience the conetent they paid for.

Unfortunately, they can't.

Many issues could have been prevented with an offline mode, but the game we have doesn't include one.

 

[Stealthie]

Let me help you:
ED is not a F2P game. A consumer pays full price for its content. ED is marketed as SP capable. Some people might want to experience the conetent they paid for.

Nope, that doesn't help at all.

I don't really see how pointing out that ED is "SP capable" really justifies using exploits.
Nor do I understand how simply "wanting to experience the content they paid for" justifies using exploits either.

Is this an attitude that you have toward ALL games?
When you start up Fallout 4 do you get stroppy because you don't immediately have access to all the same toys as somebody who's been playing it for a month?

Perhaps FDev could have an option whereby when you create a new CMDR you could click on a "quick progression" tick-box, with the caveat that enabling it would restrict a player to Solo mode with that CMDR?
I'm betting nobody would use it though.

 

[Riverside]

I'm not convinced that how long a goal can take is important, it's more that if a player rushes through the game, and then complains that there's nothing to do, that's the problem.

How you reach your goal is up to you, it's the journey that's important. Admittedly it's most obvious when you complete the goal though

Play your own way, let them play theirs.

 

[Jenner]

I've long been an advocate of FD making the superpower faction ranking system less onerous and more immersive/meaningful/unique. Grinding out missions and/or stacking is a sign that its not an optimal design imho. Of course grind is optional and I tend to avoid it, but as has been pointed out many times if you avoid grinding for navy rank then you're basically resigned to achieving the high-tier ships in a totally impractical time period, or never.

The work is subjective, and some people are just find with the amount of effort and time it takes to reach those tiers already of course. I'm not one of them.

 

[kurush]

I don't see how exactly mode switching is different from, for example, instance hoping in MMORPG to kill the same boss multiple times. In MMORPG world at least nobody cares, in ED I bet some people will come up who care. Just ignore them

 

[Marklar_]

I've long been an advocate of FD making the superpower faction ranking system less onerous and more immersive/meaningful/unique. Grinding out missions and/or stacking is a sign that its not an optimal design imho. Of course grind is optional and I tend to avoid it, but as has been pointed out many times if you avoid grinding for navy rank then you're basically resigned to achieving the high-tier ships in a totally impractical time period, or never.

The work is subjective, and some people are just find with the amount of effort and time it takes to reach those tiers already of course. I'm not one of them.

I agree. It's one thing to have ships that are supposed to take a long time to get, but another thing to require players to lock into a dull repetitive grind for the foreseeable future of their gaming time in order to get those ships at some point, maybe. It should allow you to gain rank with a more organic gameplay, so that you can play how you want and get the ranks for playing in the right place for the right people. It still should take a while, but not restrict your gameplay to repetitive missions and micromanaging the BGS. Why not gain rank through ordinary trading, exploring, etc.? Enough with the mission system and minor faction manipulation.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Must admit, I don't really get the whole "I don't play enough to make progress if I don't use expoits" argument. Are there other games where you can expect to make the same progress as somebody who's played for twice as long as you?If you're the person who has played for twice as long, wouldn't you expect that commitment to yield an advantage over somebody who's only played for half as long?

I think I play an above average amount of time. In the first six months of 2017, doing a mix of missions, CGs and some small exploration trips, I gained 7% towards Vice admiral. 7%. It means that with above-average playtime it takes about 7.5 years to make it to vice-admiral, and from there presumably 30-50 years for admiral if you dont log/minmax/grind.

Try and convince me that makes sense. If you play 'FD style' (Han-solo like, a bit of everything, no grinding, blaze your own trail) it is pretty much impossible at all to reach these ranks. You can seriously pick five instruments of your choice and become a virtuoso with each of them in the same amount of time. I'm not gonna grind, so if FD puts anything at those ranks I simply will ignore it. Good stuff.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Nope, that doesn't help at all.

I don't really see how pointing out that ED is "SP capable" really justifies using exploits.
Nor do I understand how simply "wanting to experience the content they paid for" justifies using exploits either.

Is this an attitude that you have toward ALL games?
When you start up Fallout 4 do you get stroppy because you don't immediately have access to all the same toys as somebody who's been playing it for a month?

Perhaps FDev could have an option whereby when you create a new CMDR you could click on a "quick progression" tick-box, with the caveat that enabling it would restrict a player to Solo mode with that CMDR?
I'm betting nobody would use it though.

*shrugs*
This isn't about me - it's about players wanting to take a shortcut in their SP experience because they can't be bothered with the MMO-like time gating for content. And if you ask me about that buton - yes, I might use it, because I really can't be bothered with the grindy aspects of ED anymore.

 

[Stealthie]

I think I play an above average amount of time. In the first six months of 2017, doing a mix of missions, CGs and some small exploration trips, I gained 7% towards Vice admiral. 7%. It means that with above-average playtime it takes about 7.5 years to make it to vice-admiral, and from there presumably 30-50 years for admiral if you dont log/minmax/grind.

Try and convince me that makes sense. If you play 'FD style' (Han-solo like, a bit of everything, no grinding, blaze your own trail) it is pretty much impossible at all to reach these ranks. You can seriously pick five instruments of your choice and become a virtuoso with each of them in the same amount of time. I'm not gonna grind, so if FD puts anything at those ranks I simply will ignore it. Good stuff.

Well, yeah.

I just posted a thread about naval rank-grind this morning.

I just don't really see any logic in claiming that you "don't play enough to go without using exploits".
I can sympathise with the complaint but it still doesn't make any sense.
If you've only played a game for 10 hours you shouldn't expect to have access to the same content as somebody who's played it for 100 hours.

As I say, I genuinely don't mind if people do choose to use exploits (I've done it myself) but there's no need to make excuses about why you're doing it.
Let's face it, that stuff about "I paid for the game so I expect to have access to all the content" is just cobblers.
You're doing it because you want access to some advantage that you don't already have, whether it's to use in a SP game or against other players in a multiplayer game.
And if it's the latter, that's when it becomes a bit of potential problem.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well, yeah.

I just posted a thread about naval rank-grind this morning.

I just don't really see any logic in claiming that you "don't play enough to go without using exploits".
I can sympathise with the complaint but it still doesn't make any sense.
If you've only played a game for 10 hours you shouldn't expect to have access to the same content as somebody who's played it for 100 hours.

As I say, I genuinely don't mind if people do choose to use exploits (I've done it myself) but there's no need to make excuses about why you're doing it.
Let's face it, that stuff about "I paid for the game so I expect to have access to all the content" is just cobblers.
You're doing it because you want access to some advantage that you don't already have, whether it's to use in a SP game or against other players in a multiplayer game.
And if it's the latter, that's when it becomes a bit of potential problem.

It's only an excuse if people intend to stick to MP, for that can be unfair. Those that don't bother about MP don't need any excuse to make their SP experience worthwhile.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Perhaps FDev could have an option whereby when you create a new CMDR you could click on a "quick progression" tick-box, with the caveat that enabling it would restrict a player to Solo mode with that CMDR?
I'm betting nobody would use it though.

I'd take that bet in a hot second. And be exceedingly confident about my chances.
Won't happen though of course...for good or ill.

 

[Soothsayer]

As a long-time Corvette owner, I'll say this. If you're silly enough to do the reputation grind "legitimately," you're going to be sorely, bitterly disappointed with your ship at the end of that incomprehensibly, unreasonably long grind.

The Corvette and the Cutter are great ships (for PvE and trading, anyway), but they're not significant upgrades from the Anaconda. Also, for some stupid reason or another, Frontier has gone out of their way to ensure that relatively cheap ships like the Fer-de-Lance dominate the PvP scene. Corvettes and the like can PvP, but they're not really regarded as optimal.

Heck -- hardpoints notwithstanding, the Anaconda and the Corvette are basically the same ship. Their maneuverability and speed is quite similar, their internals are virtually identical, and you basically get more shields with the Corvette in exchange for less armor and slightly less firepower.

 

[kofeyh]

The Fed rank grind isn't that bad, you seem to be having awful luck or something. I'd say about 3-6 months of casual playing should be enough.

Don't assume. The naval progression has absolutely been designed to expect focus in achieving tiers at this point; it was much easier back in the day. Now? Requires focus or it will be years. It's not something people will accrete naturally within a few months.

Unlike the three major ranks, that automatically accrue over time, Naval progression requires focus to achieve ranks; to gain both? Now requires considerable investment of time. It's arguable if it's even possible to naturally accrue now; certainly not in a few months.

 

[Ozram]

Don't assume. The naval progression has absolutely been designed to expect focus in achieving tiers at this point; it was much easier back in the day. Now? Requires focus or it will be years. It's not something people will accrete naturally within a few months.

Unlike the three major ranks, that automatically accrue over time, Naval progression requires focus to achieve ranks; to gain both? Now requires considerable investment of time. It's arguable if it's even possible to naturally accrue now; certainly not in a few months.

Yeah, every few months or so I check... I pretty much keep an eye out for the missions that count toward progression and take those, but as part of natural play, with some preferential given to the stuff that counts. I've been that way for years. Early on it got me enough rank to get to the FGS (long before SLFs were a thing, I just wanted the FAS) and then it got slower and slower going. Proceeding naturally, which is the only way I play, I don't see myself having the rank for a Vette any time soon. It's a tad frustrating when I see so many of them out and it's mostly because of mode switching. Not blaming players for doing it, more so FD for creating the situation where using an exploit is the only way to get there.

 

[kofeyh]

If you've only played a game for 10 hours you shouldn't expect to have access to the same content as somebody who's played it for 100 hours.

This has nothing to do with unlocking the Cutter and Corvette that requires many hundreds of hours at this juncture. I don't care if people mode switch to work around the idiotic mission restrictions and bugs that now plague the mission board. It's broken and is in a state now, where I no-longer believe it's possible to gain either Empire or Federal major power reputation sufficient to unlock either large ship, without significant investment at this point.

I have well over 1600 hours in-game time spent at this point, across three commander accounts; I have both fed and imp ships unlocked under one account only. It'll be hundreds more before I'd get either on a second account; and I'm not even going to bother.

The time scales people assume it takes to actually unlock either major naval ship, are hilariously off base, if allowing for natural gain. You want either ship now? Start grinding. Or you'll be little closer to it in a years time.

 

[kofeyh]

Yeah, every few months or so I check... I pretty much keep an eye out for the missions that count toward progression and take those, but as part of natural play, with some preferential given to the stuff that counts. I've been that way for years. Early on it got me enough rank to get to the FGS (long before SLFs were a thing, I just wanted the FAS) and then it got slower and slower going. Proceeding naturally, which is the only way I play, I don't see myself having the rank for a Vette any time soon. It's a tad frustrating when I see so many of them out and it's mostly because of mode switching. Not blaming players for doing it, more so FD for creating the situation where using an exploit is the only way to get there.

I have no issue with people focusing and expediting the naval ships, or not. Play it your way. It's all good. But I do draw the line at uninformed commanders swinging the "exploit" bat around, wildly, whilst simultaneously having no idea as to how focused one now needs to be, to achieve the appropriate ranks.

The mission rot, and slow decline of the entire missions system, thanks to over-zealous commanders, has pretty much lead to that outcome. Unfortunately. The early birds have the worm. Now? I feel for those working on the ranks now. It's brutal. And the fed ship, arguably, just isn't even worth it.

 

[CMDR Poet Starwind]

I used mode switching to rank allied with Xeno Research Group at Witch Head Science Center. No real shame as I shelled out a few million to do so, they had no real missions to speak of, and because impatient.

However, the plane_arium's laser light show accompanied by ancient Earth "Pink Floyd" was excellent, but did reek eerily of Onionhead...

 

[Marklar_]

Don't assume. The naval progression has absolutely been designed to expect focus in achieving tiers at this point; it was much easier back in the day.

OK, I get you. It's hard to know just how tough it is now when you haven't done it in a while. I agree that FD has made the time gate a bit ridiculous, I do remember feeling nerf after nerf while grinding ranks. It's like they want these ships to be so rare that only some players can have them, but that's a huge blow to the majority of players, who are really supporting the game. I don't mind a grind so much myself, but there seems a tendency to get a bit over-grindy with it on FDs part.