Conveying this games "Story" through nothing but text is unacceptable.

[drew]

Hi Drew,

I appreciate what you say, I just sit with the following dilemma though.

I'm not much of a book reader but I do enjoy a good story, and from the praise I hear regarding your books I can only concede that they must be good.

However I would like to experience the story "while playing" Elite, not "instead of" (can't read a book and fly a ship at the same time)

That is why I opt for audiobooks and podcasts, I actually went to your website a while back to purchase the audiobook for Reclamation but then got to the price (19.39GBP).

I appreciate that costs need to be recovered and that's the curse of doing business but in my currency (ZAR) 20 quid is actually quite a bit of cash, its literally the same price I paid for the game in the first place, Actually more so since our currency is currently tanking (ED=19.99GBP).

That is the unfortunate reason I have not yet been able to experience the world you have created and the characters you have brought to life.

Hi CMDR,

There is little I can do about the price I'm afraid, and currency rates are an unfortunate fact of life. The audiobook represents a very significant investment of time and effort over and on top of the huge amount of time that it takes to create a book in the first place.

We also hired a very well known narrator to read Elite: Reclamation (Toby Longworth's previous credits included Star Wars, HitchHikers and Doctor Who). Studio hire, recording, editing, sound follies and special effects were also included giving a production quality on a par with the best that the BBC produces.

The audiobook represents nearly 12 hours of entertainment. Is that worth £19.39?

I don't know your personal financial situation. I have no idea if £20 is pocket money or a massive fraction of your disposable income from your perspective. It is your money, there is no obligation to buy the book in any format.

If you want something, you'll find a way to make it happen.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Komemiute]

As a matter of fact, no I have not watched a sub-titled movie or anime. I either watch/read items in the original language or not at all - ever.

 

[Jaiotu]

OK, voiced radio messages would be awesome, full motion video cutscenes of the ongoing stories (theft of meta alloys, alien interdiction, guardian puzzle), would be frickin awesome but Fdev don't need to do that.

As far as spaceship pornography <short form censored> goes, we're set, holo me has the characters and voicing those few characters - well, I'm sure there are many starving actor students out there that would work for recognition and resume points. We're visual creatures, we respond with much more interest when there's something to look at (no offense Drew, I'll buy your book already .

It could almost be presented in graphic novel format (with speech bubbles), and the interest levels would still rise a 1000%...

https://ernestoolivares.com/2013/01/11/we-are-90-visuals-beings/

Voice work performed by starving actor students that would work for recognition and resume points? Wouldn't the Screen Actors Guild go nuts over something like that? I doubt Frontier would want the kind of negative criticism that would emerge from not paying it's voice actors a fair wage.

Drew's Elite: Premonition is going to fill a gap that has been needed filling for a long, long time: We're finally going to get a recap of "The Story This Far". People who don't read Galnet News are missing a huge part of Elite: Dangerous. There are so many interconnected threads pointing to a giant galactic conspiracy going back to at least the year 3250. Something happened to the starliner Antares. Something much worse than a mere accident. Something that someone is willing to kill Presidents and Vice Presidents to keep secret.

 

[Surprised Brony]

I think reading GalNet is easy and accessible enough. It's in the game, too. Good enough for me. If I need to check for articles I may have missed, it won't kill me to go to a 3rd party site.

What?! Really? Hahahaha

I see you live in America and so maybe are American. This explains it.

Alright, what the hell? As an American who prefers to watch subbed anime, I don't follow your logic.

 

[Taranis Dekker]

I'm going to sit on the fence a little, and and say that I enjoy reading both in-game and out-game(?) articles and books. I'm an avid reader, and the amount of books I have drives my wife nuts.

I keep an eye on Galnet, and dabble in these forums though, like many others I suspect, I don't have the time to trawl through 000's of forum articles in the Canonn and Formidine threads. That means I probably miss out on a whole load of discoveries that people make in-game, that don't make it into Galnet. All the stuff about alien ruins is a good example. It's a great direction for the game to go in, but hardly anything seems to be shown in-game about it. If you want to find anything out, you need these forums, and then you have to have a look a somewhat confusing spreadsheet about various places you need to visit, and things you need to scan - either on your own, or with other Commanders. I'd love to get involved in the hunt, but the complexity and time investment required (married, with family!) puts me off - some of the previous discoveries around artefacts seem to need the player to have a serious understanding of mathematical or scientific concepts that probably most of us aren't experienced with.

It was the Galnet articles that made me realise that if I wanted to understand the references to Salomé, I needed to buy Drew's book - so I did. I enjoyed it (poor editing aside - not Drew's fault!), it gave me the information I needed to better understand the history behind the in-game Galnet articles.

Presumably, the next book will provide the next part of the Elite story, and I will need to buy that also.

I don't mind reading outside the game, but I would prefer to find more information in-game - and I think the complex puzzle-solving has to change, somehow, to engage more players in the story.

Galnet is like the app on your phone that only gives you the headline news, with a couple of summary lines about the article - and then doesn't give you the detail and doesn't tell you where to go for more information.

I've got more in my head to spew out on here, but I need to do some work! [woah]

 

[Enderby]

I think reading GalNet is easy and accessible enough. It's in the game, too. Good enough for me. If I need to check for articles I may have missed, it won't kill me to go to a 3rd party site.



Alright, what the hell? As an American who prefers to watch subbed anime, I don't follow your logic.

The US has a reputation for not being very interested in anything outside the US. It's just general and of course untrue for many Americans but it is a perception of the US that is quite prevalent.

(Hence many dire US remakes of good foreign films, cos the audience is perceived to not be able to handle the language/subtitles or relate to non-US characters. Sad, but true).

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

I'd just like to say that Text-to-Speech technology at the moment is so good and a real viable option for FDev to use as a vehicle for story exposition through a voiced reading of the GalNet articles that it's a no brainer...

Similar to the LaveRadio project one of the community guys is working on, I have no idea why FDev don't either roll their own or just hire/pay this guy and implement this in the game.

Text-to-Speech, eliminates entirely any need for expensive voice actors and voice work, and the GalNet articles already exist, so would not be creating any more work of content creation for FDev.

By implementing it as a robo-newsreader who shows up in a small window when docked at stations, would provide a real sense of immersion and atmosphere to the game that does not currently exist. It would be a much better method of narrative exposition than the current non-existent method and would improve the game 150%.

Even any technical flaws in mispronunciation of the Text-to-Speech software could be explained away in-lore, by presenting "Larry the robo-newsreader" as an in-universe pirate news telecaster. His voiced reading could be accompanied by a static-filled, low-res render of Larry reading; which could be basic enough to alleviate any need for 1:1 lip-syncing (think those deadsec videos in the original Watchdogs game).

It would be so easy and inexpensive to do but would have a significant impact on the player experience. I get the feeling the reason something like this hasn't already been done is that FDev's simply apathetic towards any kind of meaningful narrative exposition in-game and that they're happy with the current walls of text scattered around the game... they really need to get out of being stuck in 1984.

 

[KING5TON]

IMO the problem is disconnect.

ED is like hearing on the news that there's terrorist attacks, alien invasions and superpowers fighting outside your house and when you look outside nothing is happening.

Until the story feeds back into the game and has actual effect that I can witness it's pointless IMO. The story isn't happening in the game, it's happening externally to it mainly in someone's head.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

IMO the problem is disconnect.

ED is like hearing on the news that there's terrorist attacks, alien invasions and superpowers fighting outside your house and when you look outside nothing is happening.

Until the story feeds back into the game and has actual effect that I can witness it's pointless IMO. The story isn't happening in the game, it's happening externally to it mainly in someone's head.

This is also true.

 

[Adryn Bliss]

While i think the OP is unnecessarily insulting and argumentative, i'm afraid i have to agree with the general sentiment. When I first started playing, upon looking for my first job, looking at the different minor faction on the station, my excited thoughts were, 'who are these people, what do they stand for, why should i work with them, who should i choose to align myself with by helping and working with them', only to quickly realise they, all of them, in the entire game, are nothing by paper dolls.
What brings any fictional universe to life is the people that live there, and there are none 'living' in the game, they are cardboard cutouts, nothing more.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Hi CMDR,

There is little I can do about the price I'm afraid, and currency rates are an unfortunate fact of life. The audiobook represents a very significant investment of time and effort over and on top of the huge amount of time that it takes to create a book in the first place.

We also hired a very well known narrator to read Elite: Reclamation (Toby Longworth's previous credits included Star Wars, HitchHikers and Doctor Who). Studio hire, recording, editing, sound follies and special effects were also included giving a production quality on a par with the best that the BBC produces.

The audiobook represents nearly 12 hours of entertainment. Is that worth £19.39?

I don't know your personal financial situation. I have no idea if £20 is pocket money or a massive fraction of your disposable income from your perspective. It is your money, there is no obligation to buy the book in any format.

If you want something, you'll find a way to make it happen.

Cheers,

Drew.

Hi Drew,

Please understand I'm not knocking the price, in local terms its is indeed value for money,

Unfortunately though due to exchange rates, it was produced in a country where the cost of sales is more (relative to my currency) and therefore the price needs to be equivalent in that respective currency.

I will most likely buy its at some point in the coming months,


My reservation though was not with you or your creative works, but instead with Frontier,

I see Galnet articles about Solome and everyone going bonkers either opposing or backing her, I on the other hand read those articles and think "who is Solome, and why should I care about her" because I unfortunately don't have the connection or attachment to the character due to little or no exposure to her ingame.

If i had to equate it to another popular online game, it would be weird if the game included no narrative, but then had the "in game story" locked behind a paywall.

When playing WoW, ingame I was able to learn about the characters, interact with them and grow my attachment (or resentment) for them accordingly.

WoW has novels, but they are supplementary and additive, not the sole and absolute way of experiencing the story.


What would have been nice is if Frontier included your works, even if somewhat summarized into the game and gave you royalties for your intellectual property (Flat rate/percentage based),

That way, we as players get to experience the story in world and in game, you get recurring income from the sales of the game, and should the players want a more in depth narrative they would buy the book (as many do with other MMO's novels). win/win/win


unfortunately Frontier has cultivated a bit of a reputation of charging for absolutely anything that's considered cosmetic and that has created a bit of animosity and resistance... what it may feel like to some is they are taking it one step further, and "charging extra for the story" (Even though the story and proceeds are not them/theirs, I know.. but the brand association is there)

That's where the line gets towed and things start going into grudge purchase territory.
You run into the situation of if you want to engage in the story of the game you have to purchase the creative works of an independent author as your only recourse.


Again please understand this is not a criticism toward you, but Frontier,

I have no issue purchasing audiobooks and supporting creators, I in fact encourage it and vocally oppose piracy.

I listened to the sample on Audible and it's got fantastic atmosphere and production value, I don't for one minute question the value for money one bit,

Its just the unfortunate "path to purchase":

Buy Elite
↓
Read Galnet referring to characters I don't know
↓
Research the names, find out there is a narrative story involved in Elite,
↓
And the only way to experience it is purchasing extra content,


Feels alot like clickbait

Once upon a time there was a ....... Click to read more (Insert pricetag)



Cheers,
COLD_ZA

EDIT: (Oh and just to give frame of reference, 20quid is R341, approx 10 packs of 20-a-pack smokes, I'm not a Smoker just an easy reference )

 

[ZeroAi]

I have to agree with the general idea of the original post.

I also have to wonder if FD is working on this - you know, like how the new camera system was shown fully developed? (I didn't know it was even being worked on?)

I really think it would be awesome if during a long multi-hop trip I could sit back and listen to Radio GalNet in game

And while while were at it, why not add an in game version of Eddb/Coriolis/Etc? (like the codex from Mass Effect?) This could be extremely lightweight graphically and bandwidth wise (like EDDB/Coriolis), and would fit nicely in the bottom role panel so we could just look down to access it (again, needs to be accessible in hyperspace and during docking)

I'd just like to say that Text-to-Speech technology at the moment is so good and a real viable option for FDev to use as a vehicle for story exposition through a voiced reading of the GalNet articles that it's a no brainer...

Similar to the LaveRadio project one of the community guys is working on, I have no idea why FDev don't either roll their own or just hire/pay this guy and implement this in the game.

Text-to-Speech, eliminates entirely any need for expensive voice actors and voice work, and the GalNet articles already exist, so would not be creating any more work of content creation for FDev.

By implementing it as a robo-newsreader who shows up in a small window when docked at stations, would provide a real sense of immersion and atmosphere to the game that does not currently exist. It would be a much better method of narrative exposition than the current non-existent method and would improve the game 150%.

Even any technical flaws in mispronunciation of the Text-to-Speech software could be explained away in-lore, by presenting "Larry the robo-newsreader" as an in-universe pirate news telecaster. His voiced reading could be accompanied by a static-filled, low-res render of Larry reading; which could be basic enough to alleviate any need for 1:1 lip-syncing (think those deadsec videos in the original Watchdogs game).

It would be so easy and inexpensive to do but would have a significant impact on the player experience. I get the feeling the reason something like this hasn't already been done is that FDev's simply apathetic towards any kind of meaningful narrative exposition in-game and that they're happy with the current walls of text scattered around the game... they really need to get out of being stuck in 1984.

Very good points and suggestions.

Come to think of it, another game I truly enjoyed (Destiny) had a very similar issue. In that case some fans started creating "audio" editions of their grimoire cards that were amazing.

In the end, whether they enlist players to vocalize in game npcs, or use text to voice tech, either would be very welcome.

And I'm sure they must have a way to use procedural tech to generate animated avatars for the npcs as well - heck the ones from that old game FreeSpace 2 would be an improvement over static pictures

Can't wait to see what FD comes up with!

 

[Surprised Brony]

The US has a reputation for not being very interested in anything outside the US. It's just general and of course untrue for many Americans but it is a perception of the US that is quite prevalent.

(Hence many dire US remakes of good foreign films, cos the audience is perceived to not be able to handle the language/subtitles or relate to non-US characters. Sad, but true).

Makes sense. I appreciate the explanation of the perspective. I'm aware of our...reputation, but had to be sure you weren't blindly riding a hate train. Lol

Have some rep. And thanks especially for recognising we're not all stereotypical. :3

IMO the problem is disconnect.

ED is like hearing on the news that there's terrorist attacks, alien invasions and superpowers fighting outside your house and when you look outside nothing is happening.

Until the story feeds back into the game and has actual effect that I can witness it's pointless IMO. The story isn't happening in the game, it's happening externally to it mainly in someone's head.

But that does quite push the point that we're not the hero of the galaxy. It will be nice when the story that is happening out there finally affects the galaxy at large. I won't dispute that. All these happenings and not a thing has really changed.

 

[Stealthie]

Hi CMDR,

There is little I can do about the price I'm afraid, and currency rates are an unfortunate fact of life. The audiobook represents a very significant investment of time and effort over and on top of the huge amount of time that it takes to create a book in the first place.

We also hired a very well known narrator to read Elite: Reclamation (Toby Longworth's previous credits included Star Wars, HitchHikers and Doctor Who). Studio hire, recording, editing, sound follies and special effects were also included giving a production quality on a par with the best that the BBC produces.

The audiobook represents nearly 12 hours of entertainment. Is that worth £19.39?

I don't know your personal financial situation. I have no idea if £20 is pocket money or a massive fraction of your disposable income from your perspective. It is your money, there is no obligation to buy the book in any format.

If you want something, you'll find a way to make it happen.

Cheers,

Drew.

I wonder if people will be critical of Drew for not publishing audiobooks in a full range of foreign languages?

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

I wonder if people will be critical of Drew for not publishing audiobooks in a full range of foreign languages?

No one's criticizing Drew (at least I'm not)

 

[Stealthie]

No one's criticizing Drew (at least I'm not)

Yes but people HAVE been critical of other ideas which fail to provide content in a full range of languages.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Yes but people HAVE been critical of other ideas which fail to provide content in a full range of languages.

yup, so is the internet I guess.

you can please some of the people most of the time,
most of the people some of the time,
and all of the people, none of the time

 

[Agony_Aunt]

that's cool. Good to know. But this is where FDev totally fails. If an external "provider" sees the need to provide a tool that supports the game external story in a better way, FDev should have realised and reacted.

On the other hand, if you are a dev, and a third party has got a feature covered, you might put adding such a feature on the low priority list and get on with other stuff instead. You can always get back to it later.

 

[Bobbydylan]

There's a story in Elite?
I didn't need one when I started playing and I don't need one now.

Good for them, though, I guess.

This. The story of Elite is the story of Commander Bobbydylan, making his way as a space rouge in a dangerous galaxy.

 

[Toffmeister]

<No Need>

If you are playing ED, then you are in the story, it's not optional. Explorer turning in data? You just made a faction more powerful, the same with the simplest trade or bounty hunt. Those who just took part in the Halsey CG just increased her standing, and if (and it's a big if, she's under the thrall of aliens), then you just increased their power too.
Salome' ? She's up to something too (I can't help but remember "The Matrix" line about following the white rabbit when I saw her white ASPx)
Will Colonia be a refuge or trap? "Come into my parlour" said the spider to the fly.
Are the alien "upgrades" an answer for some upcoming war, or a backdoor for the aliens? They don't bother to interdict anyone who has no dealings with the UA.
If the pilots fed can permit lock our nav, why do they allow ANY pilot to reach Elite by killing their members? Surely they could just permit lock the bubble to any pirate.


Ed is a lot like real life, we all go about our lives while HUGE! events go on around us. You countries war in Whocaresland? you are directly involved by your labour and taxes, even if you never watch the news or hold an opinion, you are still involved.
The plotline of ED is slow, I suspect deliberately so, the galaxy is...big, and does not move according to human perceptions. A year to us is long enough to loose interest, but it could be a mad dash rush to another race. All this is startlingly obvious once you think about it, and the fun part is we can just ignore the plotline, if the feds and Emp want to get all rowdy, the players can just move out and let them get on with it. I suspect many will.