Cosmetics: Why they need a change

I am aware that during the Kickstarter, FDev's initial intention was to sell credits for real money

Dear god... Pay to Win..... If there is a game mechanic that i loathe its pay to win.

The game is dominated by spoilt brats throwing money at game cheats, while the more honest and sensible players suffer and lag behind.

If this ever happened to ED, i'd be out.

Its the one reason i wont touch Star Citizen.

Pay to Win can go...Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu..............************** it's self.
 
You can customise your face in 2.3...

I disagree with you about armour/ships, as I stated above. I consider the different armours/swords as a parallel to ships in Elite; you don't have starter armour for the entire game, just as you don't have a Sidewinder for the entire game. You upgrade your equipment for different attributes/bonuses as you use a different ship for different purposes, e.g. Asp for exploration/Bear armour for tanking.

Can I customise the way my Grandmaster Wolf set looks beyond dying it (after purchasing a DLC and finding the ingredients and recipe)? Nope.

Can I customise the way my Python looks after purchasing a ship kit? Yup.

I see what you're saying, but i don't see it that way. You equate ships with armour/weapons, whereas i consider Geralt to be the ship.

I don't consider the pilot avatar to be 'me'. The ship is 'me', just as my car in Forza is. This goes double as a solo player that will never use multicrew.
 
I see what you're saying, but i don't see it that way. You equate ships with armour/weapons, whereas i consider Geralt to be the ship.

Without armour/sword, Geralt is a sign-user. That same ship, without shield/hardpoints would be, I dunno...an explorer? :)
If you consider Geralt and a single ship (both without "stuff") to be analogous, the only way to customise Geralt is the aforementioned hair, and the only way to customise a ship is decals.

I don't consider the pilot avatar to be 'me'. The ship is 'me', just as my car in Forza is. This goes double as a solo player that will never use multicrew.

How many different (and free) haircuts can "Gary the metrosexual fruitcake" have? And how many (free) decals can your ship have? It may not be equal in cool-factor, but in as far as the games are entirely different it's equal.
 
In general I loathe the move to expecting players to put their hands in their pockets over and over again for a game.

I started gaming back when buying a game meant going to a store, buying a box with a disc in it (or indeed a cassette tape) and that was what you got. If the game had a showstopping bug at release and if it was a massively popular game and if you were lucky, you might find that a patch for it found its way onto a magazine coverdisc a few months later.

If any of our younger readers are thinking 'OK pops, so how could that possibly be better than what we have now, when gamebreaking bugs can get patched within a day of a game's release and we can get loads of super add-on content via the gift of DLC' the answer is this. Very few games were actually shipped with gamebreaking bugs to begin with back in the day because knowing that there would be no way to fix them, companies did a hell of a lot more QA before release rather than treating their customers as unpaid beta testers when they should be playing a new release game, and as for all that whizz-bang DLC, half of it would have been in the sequel game and the other half would have been where it belonged - in the original release game, without you being expected to pay another £15 to buy the actual full experience of the game.

I think the early days of the internet and gaming were the best. There was a sweet spot from a consumer's point of view for a while when the internet was enabling the release of patches, yet the software companies hadn't learned that you could also shake the money tree a lot harder using it.

Steam has really been the driver of much of the move to what we have now; there's no question that it's done good things by allowing a lot of indies to reach audiences the likes of which they could only have dreamed of (for example Stardew Valley, in my opinion one of the most inspiring stories to come out of gaming in recent years would not have been shipping over a million copies and getting game of the year nominations in 1990, it would have been a college project that may have ended up being shared round between a mailing group and stuck on some shareware compilations) but the other side of the coin is that it empowers the large developers to basically rinse their players in previously unimagined ways and I don't find that a good thing.

Having accepted that the software companies are clearly not going to change the move towards more and more DLC/add-ons though (one of the reasons that I buy virtually nothing at release now and wait until I can get the whole shebang in a steam sale) I think the way that E D does it is fine, or at least as fine as you can get within the overall model. E D's microtransaction stuff in the shops is not gameplay critical, it confers no advantage and as such, I think it's perfectly OK to say to players 'take it or leave it'. I understand why some players think basic colour packs should be included, but it's really not a big deal to me at all - if the stuff was gameplay related it would be, but it's not.

The future of the season pass model is what interests me. I actually liked it as a concept (within the overall context given above) in that you paid a set amount for a set number of updates and knew where you stood with them. I don't know for sure if they're going to change it after 2.4 although it was hinted at and if they do change it, I have no idea what it will change to. As long as we don't move to a scenario where players are regularly being milked for actual gameplay content though, I suspect I'll still be OK with it.
 
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The future of the season pass model is what interests me. I actually liked it as a concept (within the overall context given above) in that you paid a set amount for a set number of updates and knew where you stood with them.

But that's the problem - knowing where you stand with them, knowing what the future holds before it's come to pass. Experience: "Lifetime Subscription" holder for Hellgate: London :)
 
Look , this is the perfect business model.


There will always be high spenders that buy vanity items and people who cant afford much.

Those who can't afford much still ge to enjoy the game which is being funded by those who can afford to pay.

And dont forget that this is not Doom or any other type of single player game that can be realeased, collect 1 time fee, and don't need to be updated constantly, like ED is, 10 year development plan and all that jazz.

If you do not agree with that, the only other solution is monthly subscribtions.



60 euros per month sounds about right for an inovative game like this, and a lot of people would still be playing it, altho those who can't afford cosmetics could not afford to play the game at all.

(source - EVE's entire existance)
 
But that's the problem - knowing where you stand with them, knowing what the future holds before it's come to pass. Experience: "Lifetime Subscription" holder for Hellgate: London :)

As I said, in general I prefer the old original consumer experience of knowing what you're buying before you're expected to pay for it. It's just that with the age to remember when computer games were sold like that comes the experience to understand that it's never going to change back to that, so there's a degree of acceptance required. No point in fighting battles that you can't win.

Ultimately I'm just expressing my own opinion, not trying to tell anyone else what they should think.
 
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Err, no? They're games aren't they? ED is a game isn't it? They're all full price?

Pray tell, what about Elite is so different and groundbreaking?

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Armor and weapon appearance itself is a visual customization, as are hairstyles, beard styles and dyes. If W3 had the same cosmetic approach as Elite, your armour would look like the starter armor for the entire game.

Clearly you don't understand stand the apples and oranges argument. Apples and oranges are both fruit. (In this case fruit would be games) Now comparing Elite a Kickstartered online MMO(Apple) to mostly off line single player games that are AAA (oranges) would be this in a nut shell. If you compared it to other MMOs that delve into selling cosmetics that have to pay for continual content to be added and require online servers and are expected to last more than 100 hours of gameplay then you would be doing something closer to an apples to apples argument. Which means they would be comparable.

Something like ESO is close, even though it's a different genre it shares the important comparison points relevant to this thread. It however sells cosmetics at a far higher premium.
 
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Clearly you don't understand stand the apples and oranges argument. Apples and oranges are both fruit. (In this case fruit would be games) Now comparing Elite a Kickstartered online MMO(Apple) to mostly off line single player games that are AAA (oranges) would be this in a nut shell. If you compared it to other MMOs that delve into selling cosmetics that have to pay for continual content to be added and require online servers and are expected to last more than 100 hours of gameplay then you would be doing something closer to an apples to apples argument. Which means they would be comparable.

Absolutely. Apart from the 100 hour bit :p

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I think they went the wrong direction with the ship skins, for a lot of reasons, most to benefit the company actually. Had they built an in game editor for colors/patterns and charged minimal pricing for a saved version for ship use, I think they could have already pulled in a lot more money AND offered more customized skins in the store. Everyone gets what they want. But they went the artist designer route, and I'm actually okay with that.

This whole ship naming thing though, remains to be seen. It's still not out live, so I won't condemn them yet, but if the idea of even being able to use your name in the game is voided unless you pay out is true, that's a gray line between functional and cosmetic, and feels like a money grab. We can debate the nameplate thing and if players should get a basic one for free, but what use is it to stick a name on your ship HUD for your eyes only? Knowing full well that ship naming has always been a huge thing since the kickstarter.

So yeah, cosmetics in general. I think it would be nice to get some basic stuff and then charge for more creative things, especially since having that ability gives a need and advertising for potential upgrades. I don't consider knowing a ship name in a scan a cosmetic though, there's no artistic work there, it's just something you can enable, and could be considered an important feature of the game. I haven't tried a new save, does it prompt you after your CMDR name for a ship name/ID? It ought to, that's a huge thing in having a ship of your own.
 
Clearly you don't understand stand the apples and oranges argument. Apples and oranges are both fruit. (In this case fruit would be games) Now comparing Elite a Kickstartered online MMO(Apple) to mostly off line single player games that are AAA (oranges) would be this in a nut shell. If you compared it to other MMOs that delve into selling cosmetics that have to pay for continual content to be added and require online servers and are expected to last more than 100 hours of gameplay then you would be doing something closer to an apples to apples argument. Which means they would be comparable.

Something like ESO is close, even though it's a different genre it shares the important comparison points relevant to this thread. It however sells cosmetics at a far higher premium.

Is Warframe a better example? ESO has dedicated servers but Waframe, like ED, uses P2P.
 
Is Warframe a better example? ESO has dedicated servers but Waframe, like ED, uses P2P.

And Warframe has slowly become pay to progress. I left it because the grind went from typical to egregious to intelligence insulting, but new game play and missions kept taking a back seat to new grind and cosmetics.

Sort of like Elite.
 
I have a better question... Is the game free to play?

Existing cosmetics business model is the reason that Elite Dangerous is not 30-60 euros per month subscription based.

You can only have one of the 2 business models, there is no third one and will probably never be.

Every online game out there uses one or the other without exeption, and I personally prefer the cosmetics one, because I do not have to pay monthly.
 
Existing cosmetics business model is the reason that Elite Dangerous is not 30-60 euros per month subscription based.

You can only have one of the 2 business models, there is no third one and will probably never be.

Every online game out there uses one or the other without exeption, and I personally prefer the cosmetics one, because I do not have to pay monthly.

Why? How did you fall into such a binary mentality? Elite sells yearly expansions, that's already a soft subscription model. Who told it had to be either 6€ skins or 60€ per month?
 
Yes, but everything is obtainable in-game in Warframe. I never spent a penny on that game. What is your point again?

The only reason you didn't pay anything in Warframe is because others paid for you.

Anyone who has been an adult for more than 2 days in life - knows that the current economical and social structure is financialy driven.

You can't buy food, you can't have rent, and you can't play online multiplayer games without paying money.


Just like you need your wage every month, any corporation that wants to exist long enough to tell a tale - must get paid, this is simply a fact and am inevitability of life, that cannot be wished nor willed away
 
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