Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[Flimley]

One observation I have made is, with the mining update nothing was taken away, just some new and excellent stuff added. Old school mining is pretty redundant really now days, unless your a beginner with a limited ship or, you just like mining that way, but, that choice is in the game for all of us.

The opposite is largely true regarding the Fss. The old way was taken away and we have lost that choice. Regardless of how people feel about the old ADS there is no choice anymore. This seems to be a constant bone of contention with the player base. And still causes long threads to appear since its implementation.
I say to Frontier, just put the old system back so everyone has a choice. And let’s call it competing companies proprietary systems used for discovery.

Flimley

 

[Old Duck]

You are a little late to the party

In case you didn't receive the memo patch notes, the party is over. The FSS is here and the ADS is gone.

/thread

 

[lenna]

Which, as I know you agree, is why FDev should have given us more tools, and more options, rather than simply replacing what we had.

Those that just honked would have missed out on the opportunity to make their mark on the universe with discovery tags - while they may have no interest in a sector beyond the map itself has no real tangible value to exploration, just the CMDR. Some consider it the end-goal, others recognise it as merely the tool it was meant to be.

 

[Riverside]

In case you didn't receive the memo patch notes, the party is over. The FSS is here and the ADS is gone.

/thread

This thread is in the suggestions section.

 

[Winterwalker]

The opposite is largely true regarding the Fss. The old way was taken away and we have lost that choice. Regardless of how people feel about the old ADS there is no choice anymore. This seems to be a constant bone of contention with the player base. And still causes long threads to appear since its implementation.
I say to Frontier, just put the old system back so everyone has a choice. And let’s call it competing companies proprietary systems used for discovery.

Flimley

Picture filled in but not 'discovered'? OK I do get that idea but FD would have to remove the honk = payment, traveller bonus I think.

One observation I have made is, with the mining update nothing was taken away, just some new and excellent stuff added. Old school mining is pretty redundant really now days, unless your a beginner with a limited ship or, you just like mining that way, but, that choice is in the game for all of us.

Speak for self I still carry mining laser, class 2, on mining equipped Chieftain (operating off Gnosis) when I see a planet ... which we haven't, of any kind, for nearly a month now. (We are in a nice stellar nursery though, young stars and very blue in the nebula). Even core asteroids get the lase treatment, depending on composition of course. I never knowlingly leave a low temp diamnond behind. (Point got though).

 

[lenna]

One observation I have made is, with the mining update nothing was taken away, just some new and excellent stuff added. Old school mining is pretty redundant really now days, unless your a beginner with a limited ship or, you just like mining that way, but, that choice is in the game for all of us.

The opposite is largely true regarding the Fss. The old way was taken away and we have lost that choice. Regardless of how people feel about the old ADS there is no choice anymore. This seems to be a constant bone of contention with the player base. And still causes long threads to appear since its implementation.
I say to Frontier, just put the old system back so everyone has a choice. And let’s call it competing companies proprietary systems used for discovery.

Exactly - Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of vocal opposition to doing that and even if FD did do something along those lines it probably would not be implemented for quite some time.

 

[Old Duck]

This thread is in the suggestions section.

This thread is a red herring. "Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?" Plenty of us have described how we use the FSS enjoyably ever since 3.3 dropped, but that hasn't and will never please the FSS haters who make and fuel these threads. No matter what Frontier demonstrates, the haters are going to hate.

 

[lenna]

Picture filled in but not 'discovered'? OK I do get that idea but FD would have to remove the honk = payment, traveller bonus I think.

That is even part of the 3.3 FSS, the only difference wrt honking with the ADS fitted would be the map getting populated (no additional credits).

 

[Winterwalker]

Exactly - Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of vocal opposition to doing that and even if FD did do something along those lines it probably would not be implemented for quite some time.

You have to spell out how it would work. The game changed when you got a bonus just for honking and I think a lot of people understand why that was added, given the FSS. But if you re-add ADS with that intact, you undermine the FSS. Be open to and improve new mechanics yes, undermine no .. it's how most longer term supporters of the development think, I think.

 

[lenna]

You have to spell out how it would work. The game changed when you got a bonus just for honking and I think a lot of people understand why that was added, given the FSS. But if you re-add ADS with that intact, you undermine the FSS. Be open to and improve new mechanics yes, undermine no .. it's how most longer term supporters of the development think, I think.

Hardly undermine, that is the usual anti-honk rhetoric, the notional benefit of the FSS would be that you would not have to super-cruise and near-body scan to the bodies to discover them. Re-introducing something similar to the ADS as an optional module would not undermine the FSS nor it's wider utility - to claim otherwise is pure bunk.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You do not describe an incompatibility Max, you describe agency. Choices on how to achieve a particular goal. The FSS is a handy tool for quickly resolving distant objects & USSs, it would continue to have that benefit on a ship equipped with an ADS. There is no incompatibility, only choice.

Yes I do describe an incompatibilty if the ADS is built in. The ADS cannot be built into the FSS is I will find the game crap. I do not want to find the game crap. I am happy for player agency, we already have that with the FSS as people seem to use it in different ways already. I am also open to other mechanics to be included as long as they don't make the FSS mechanic feel redundant.

 

[Winterwalker]

Hardly undermine, that is the usual anti-honk rhetoric, the notional benefit of the FSS would be that you would not have to super-cruise and near-body scan to the bodies to discover them. Re-introducing something similar to the ADS as an optional module would not undermine the FSS nor it's wider utility - to claim otherwise is pure bunk.

I'm saying getting both, the gameplay info and a payment from ADS, reduces the reasons for going to FSS. Agreed the FSS is relatively easy money but there's no gameplay reason anymore to do it if you ADS. That's why the payment would have to come off ADS (honk).

edit: And let's think positively, is a very good reason to temporarily remove ADS, pending redesign to fit with FSS.

 

[Riverside]

This thread is a red herring. "Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?" Plenty of us have described how we use the FSS enjoyably ever since 3.3 dropped, but that hasn't and will never please the FSS haters who make and fuel these threads. No matter what Frontier demonstrates, the haters are going to hate.

Frontier have not responded. We are just chatting while waiting. You are welcome to join in or ignore it as you wish as others do with your EBL comments.

 

[marx]

I think you'd find that a lot of players are missing the system map reveal, with the information which used to be present there, but now is gated behind playing the FSS to completion - or others having already scanned the system before. Not a "press a button to body scan everything" mechanic. It was just information which you could use to determine if a system might be worth exploring further for you.
The crux of the dilemma now is that if you're looking for the rarities of the Stellar Forge, you have to explore the system fully in order to determine if it might be worth exploring or not.

 

[Riverside]

Yes I do describe an incompatibilty if the ADS is built in. The ADS cannot be built into the FSS is I will find the game crap. I do not want to find the game crap. I am happy for player agency, we already have that with the FSS as people seem to use it in different ways already. I am also open to other mechanics to be included as long as they don't make the FSS mechanic feel redundant.

Max, it doesn't matter how others play with their sandbox toys, what matters to me is that a toy I have an ongoing use for has been removed without justification. It was not made of toxic plastic, it was not painted with lead. Your objections are noted, but you are not Frontier. This thread is looking for a response from Frontier, I am looking for a response from Frontier, and I will be happy to accept a sincere apology for the lack of response over a protracted period and an ETA for when the old modules will be put back into the game.

If they could also demonstrate how the FSS was intended to be 'fun' as the OP requests that'd be lovely. Personally I don't mind the FSS, I just don't think there was any need to frustrate existing customers by removing long-standing game elements without good reason.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max, it doesn't matter how others play with their sandbox toys, what matters is that a toy I have an ongoing use for has been removed without justification. It was not made of toxic plastic, it was not painted with lead. Your objections are noted, but you are not Frontier. This thread is looking for a response from Frontier, I am looking for a response from Frontier, and I will be happy to accept a sincere apology for the lack of response over a protracted period and an ETA for when the old modules will be put back into the game.

No justification is needed. You are also not frontier. They do not need to apologise either. They have done nothing wrong.

The ADS has been substituted. You just don't want to use the substitute. There is no need to have the ADS in the game either with the FSS there.

If they could also demonstrate how the FSS was intended to be 'fun' as the OP requests that's be lovely, personally I don't mind the FSS, I just don't think there was any need to frustrate existing customers by removing long-standing game elements.

Many forum members already have. There is no need for Fdev to show anyone when many of the players already have.

 

[lenna]

I'm saying getting both, the gameplay info from ADS and a payment, reduces the reasons for going to FSS. Agreed the FSS is relatively easy money but there's no gameplay reason anymore to do it if you ADS. That's why the payment would have to come off ADS (honk).

Except you are missing the point that that the payment is already there from the FSS-honk, adding the ADS map information if and only if you have the suitable module fitted would not detract from the fact that the FSS would still provide the same discovery tags and payment as the near-body scans (the latter taking notionally longer due to having to travel to each body).

As has been pointed out numerous times, the notional benefits FSS would not be adversely affected by co-existence with an ADS type module.

The honk (even without the ADS) provides payment as it stands, so your argument actually carries little or no weight.

 

[Riverside]

There is no need for Fdev to show anyone when many of the players already have.

Max, the OP is specifically requesting a response from Frontier. That you don't think one is required is understood, your stance does not change the situation.

 

[Winterwalker]

Except you are missing the point that that the payment is already there from the FSS-honk, adding the ADS map information if and only if you have the suitable module fitted would not detract from the fact that the FSS would still provide the same discovery tags and payment as the near-body scans (the latter taking notionally longer due to having to travel to each body).

You see what you're doing is you're trying to take away reasons for using a mechanic you don't like. Unfortunately though you'll take away everyone's reasons for using a feature that is in all ships.

Let's say FSS stays as is, ADS is re-added and you carry it. You will get discovery data (shortcut) from FSS but it won't tell you anything you don't know from your ADS. So you're reducing the FSS to 'just a way to get paid' and you already think it's a chore.

It should therefore be be the ONLY way to get paid, and then using the mechanic has a value. I would take off honk payment and also potentially allow discovery but remove payment from the passive (point and wait) scan.

Now you have a more active reason - follow the money - to use FSS and there's clear water between it and ADS.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max, the OP is specifically requesting a response from Frontier. That you don't think one is required is understood, your stance does not change the situation.

Neither does yours. Make your suggestion and leave.