Could griefers be turned into a feature?

[Rubbernuke]

True pirates will have lots of fines, lots of assaults and some bounties.

Some trigger happy softy will have no bounties (or one), have a fine and or low assault charges.

A true killer will have lots and lots of everything: lots of fines, lots of assault charges and lots of bounties. Of this you could have a player / NPC split (to tell apart BGS players).

Since this is pure BGS data (and simple- its three values) you can profile someones recent behaviour.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Can i just leave this here

O7

Yes, but no- this is about how you deal with people who do things you don't like.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Griefers are unfortunately part and parcel of MMOs, Elite has some of the more powerful methods of dealing with them.
Away from CGs and Engineers (who you only ultimately need experimental effects from) Open is normally indistinguishable from Solo.
Yes there are points where it's advisable to switch modes, so it boils down to which is more immersion breaking, the mode switch or the rebuy screen?

 

[Screemonster]

Griefers are unfortunately part and parcel of MMOs, Elite has some of the more powerful methods of dealing with them.
Away from CGs and Engineers (who you only ultimately need experimental effects from) Open is normally indistinguishable from Solo.
Yes there are points where it's advisable to switch modes, so it boils down to which is more immersion breaking, the mode switch or the rebuy screen?

I honestly don't know why the rebuy screen doesn't have a big "switch to solo on respawn" button on it.

 

[Brrokk]

I hate greiferes, they spoil my elite experience, that said, I do understand why it is that they are there and the complexities of this on a multiplayer online game. This all got me to thinking, I've taken to calling them 'Revers', as a respectful nod or hat tip in the direction of the series and file 'FireFly', which I love.

Now it certainly would be easy to detect the behaviour of a greifer on line, from their history, could they be transformed into a reever, and given reever's territory somewhere, so that new players can be warned of their foul natures and zones created for human to human conflict? Reverse be attacked by navy's in protected space or some such. Cause the bounty system is doing nothing to stop their horrible behaviour.

Oh, my bad, it is reavers.

Reaver (Firefly) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

New to the game? Just in case you don't know, adding someone to your block list means that you won't ever instance with them again, even in Open play. If someone has exploded you, your contacts tab shows who and when it was, and you can click their name and choose block. Because of this and mode choice, griefers really aren't much of a problem in ED.

 

[Wily Rites]

Starting an unsolicited conversation in chat should definitely be a crime.


It is a shame but then some people are like that.

I second the suggestion of Moebius/ElitePvE groups, with something like 40,000 members and 17-18 thousand on their forum you could well find like minded people to chat with.

There are some here that play in Solo some in Open personally I rarely play in Solo now my machine can handle multiple commanders but generally when in the bubble I will be in one of the PGs I am signed up to outside the bubble I will play in open if only because it is fewer clicks to launch.

Heck no, I'm headed for PvP, just saying what I think is all.

 

[aRJay]

if you're suggesting that it should be legal for me to atomise spam callers with an 8 ton grapeshot cannon... I'm listening.

There is a very good bit in “Good Omens”, book or series, where a very annoyed demon trapped in an answering machine gets out via a cold call centre.

 

[Wily Rites]

The thing that is actually more immersion breaking for me is being in the far depths of space, coming upon a beautiful dance of physics in the form of a binary ringed gas giant pair, each with their respective satellites and shepherd moons, all orbiting a trinary star cluster only to find that these miracles were already discovered by Fartknocker69.

ROFL! right yes, point taken.

The problem is, that the measures a power would need to take to prevent them would interfere so much with normal gameplay that it'd be far worse than they are.

I don't believe that for one minute, someone needs to write an PvP engagement protocol and then implement a degradation of the craft and status of anyone who does not follow it. Hell I'd add to the reaver pack that gets applied, along with the rotting human flesh that would adorn their cabins, a degradation of all engineered modules that happens progressively over time, another side effect of their space madness, being the neglect of their vessels; It would just needs to be implemented creatively and with subtlety, the protocol and its semantics, not the free reaver pack.

Your not forced into Solo, join a PVE Player Group and its Open without the muppets, as i said the game is fine.

O7

Ah ok, I'll have to have a closer look, sounds very civil, thank you.

It's up to you to change mode- but you can also try and use whats in game to overcome or mitigate the problem.

Yes, I'm planning on this, but my remark is not for me, my 'elite virginity' is gone, my thoughts are for improving the experience for those who follow after me. Based upon my experience.

 

[Wily Rites]

New to the game? Just in case you don't know, adding someone to your block list means that you won't ever instance with them again, even in Open play. If someone has exploded you, your contacts tab shows who and when it was, and you can click their name and choose block. Because of this and mode choice, griefers really aren't much of a problem in ED.

Yes I am still rather wet behind the ears. The thing is, I'm currently adding names to my 'naughty list' so that I can hunt them down later on.
Are their ways to find players in game? I mean, if doing this has some repercussion, then they will get bored of it pretty quickly.
Blocking them does nothing to help the experience of the folks who follow after.

 

[Brrokk]

Yes I am still rather wet behind the ears. The thing is, I'm currently adding names to my 'naughty list' so that I can hunt them down later on.
Are their ways to find players in game? I mean, if doing this has some repercussion, then they will get bored of it pretty quickly.
Blocking them does nothing to help the experience of the folks who follow after.

There aren't ways to find players in-game, unless they are on your friends list.
Block just curates your own game experience. Other players coming later are responsible for their own game experience: they might enjoy gameplay you don't, and vice versa.

 

[Wily Rites]

There aren't ways to find players in-game, unless they are on your friends list.
Block just curates your own game experience. Other players coming later are responsible for their own game experience: they might enjoy gameplay you don't, and vice versa.

Well yes they are, I'm was just stating that the existence of this issue in prime gameplay systems, means that the hard work of the game devs gets missed; At least that has been my experience.
No one could possibly enjoy the trauma of your first encounter with a reaver, I'm just saying that this could be turned into a real asset. If the game company felt inclined.

 

[Wily Rites]

I had another encounter the other day, as I'd clicked on the first and not the middle icon by mistake. I was in my krait phantom explorer build, which I also use as a way to jump quickly between engineers with parts for my combat build. There was no comms, no interplay and no attempt at fighting back from me. Just interdiction and and assassination, without anything else at all.

 

[Miscellaneous]

Yes I am still rather wet behind the ears. The thing is, I'm currently adding names to my 'naughty list' so that I can hunt them down later on.
Are their ways to find players in game? I mean, if doing this has some repercussion, then they will get bored of it pretty quickly.
Blocking them does nothing to help the experience of the folks who follow after.

There is limited ability to get their recent location by the station bounty boards, if they rise to that level.

Anyways good on you hanging in there and not blocking them. Learn to live with them

Potentially the amount of blocks against a player could be a lightweight way to calculate a more true notoriety aspect. A true cardinality of grief.

 

[metatheurgist]

It is a fine.
Unfortunately ED doesn't have a concept of "legal to shoot but doesn't have a bounty". Back when bounties expired on a timer, certain things did come with trivially small (and short-lived) bounties specifically so that it made it legal for their targets to return fire.

There's a few places where such a flag would be insanely useful - getting shot while you have report crimes turned off, for instance, shouldn't result in you getting a bounty for returning fire. It shouldn't matter that you're technically firing on a clean ship if the only reason they're clean is, say, archon's rank 5 bonus or you have crimes off yourself.

At the very least, certain actions (interdicting, committing a bountyable crime even if the actual credit value is zeroed by the kumo crew, shooting a clean ship that has crimes off) should disable your crime reporting until you leave the instance.

Sometimes I feel like ED is one of those stories where everything was lost after an apocalypse and people are rediscovering stuff. I want to point all the way back to 84 Elite's sadly more detailed crime system of Clean, Offender and Fugitive. You could pack so much more nuance just into that little bit of complexity, but somehow Frontier has lost all the knowledge and must relearn it from scratch.

 

[Brrokk]

I had another encounter the other day, as I'd clicked on the first and not the middle icon by mistake. I was in my krait phantom explorer build, which I also use as a way to jump quickly between engineers with parts for my combat build. There was no comms, no interplay and no attempt at fighting back from me. Just interdiction and and assassination, without anything else at all.

Yes, that's how it usually goes.

 

[Wily Rites]

I'm pretty sure that to kill a ship that fast, you do need engineering, so this is not burner accounts that they don't care about; I curse their rotten reaver modules, that they choke on the festering human flesh and gunk that they swim in!

/me shakes fist at the clouds and rants about the poorly indoctrinated dark triad, who ruin every good thing not only the internet, on the internet!!!

Now let me get my thoughts together and grab some some Kongga Ale for Lori Jameson, I think her shield cell mod improvements may well come in very handy some time very soon!

 

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Hi All

Interesting topic...One question just out of interest, if you block a player, does that person know you've blocked them?

Jack

 

[Wily Rites]

Hi All

Interesting topic...One question just out of interest, if you block a player, does that person know you've blocked them?

Jack

Hello!
I think generally, this sort of person, is completely unaware that anyone else even exist; Both in and out of game!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I don't believe that for one minute, someone needs to write an PvP engagement protocol

Lots of people have tried in the last decade. The ways they fail fall into four main areas

1) Tied to C&P on the PvE side (so, e.g., blowing someone up for giggles in an uninhabited system is absolutely fine, but self-defence if some player attacks you over your 300cr trespass bounty - or even over more significant PvE crimes - is strictly forbidden)

2) Don't account for ramming-based deaths (it's very easy to kill a weak ship with a high speed ram, but that doesn't mean the innocent party was the one flying the weak ship) or similar tricks to switch "responsibility"

3) Assume that all PvP deaths other than pre-arranged duels are illegitimate, therefore barring group-vs-group warfare (which may or may not be related to a PvE objective), hunting down player-killers, getting revenge a few days later on the person who blew you up, friendly fire in a crowded AX CZ or other high-intensity PvE environment, etc.

4) Requires manual moderation and assessment for each kills (or even some kills), which no-one has time for; it needs to be something the game can implement and enforce automatically with at most only ultra-rare cases needing to go to Frontier Support to fix.

If you can come up with a protocol which avoids those four obvious flaws (or find one someone else has written) I'd be very interested.

 

[Brrokk]

I'm pretty sure that to kill a ship that fast, you do need engineering, so this is not burner accounts that they don't care about; I curse their rotten reaver modules, that they choke on the festering human flesh and gunk that they swim in!

/me shakes fist at the clouds and rants about the poorly indoctrinated dark triad, who ruin every good thing not only the internet, on the internet!!!

Now let me get my thoughts together and grab some some Kongga Ale for Lori Jameson, I think her shield cell mod improvements may well come in very handy some time very soon!

Great RP!