Couple O' Questions

[Krasny]

I'm currently wondering whether to buy in to the game before release, but a couple of qualms are staying my hand.

First the galactic scale flustercluck of X-Rebirth (The Fraud Dimension) has raised my shields to the idea of blindly throwing money at a wonderful idea, that may turn out to be a bag of the proverbial.

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Thanks.

 

[Jenner]

I'm currently wondering whether to buy in to the game before release, but a couple of qualms are staying my hand.

First the galactic scale flustercluck of X-Rebirth (The Fraud Dimension) has raised my shields to the idea of blindly throwing money at a wonderful idea, that may turn out to be a bag of the proverbial.

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Thanks.

As to the first point, I would say that you should always be skeptical when spending money on something that doesn't exist yet. Buyer beware and all that. If you dig around, though, you'll see plenty of information that points to the fact that ED is in good hands with Frontier. To me it looks about as good as can be expected for something that's not out yet.

Second point, all ships in ED do adhere to 'newtonian' physics, but they are assisted by 'flight assist' systems so they behave more like aircraft. So yeah....think more WW2 dogfighting than flying the space shuttle.

 

[Tinman]

I'm currently wondering whether to buy in to the game before release, but a couple of qualms are staying my hand.

First the galactic scale flustercluck of X-Rebirth (The Fraud Dimension) has raised my shields to the idea of blindly throwing money at a wonderful idea, that may turn out to be a bag of the proverbial.

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Thanks.

Since this game will go thru several different phases of development with the Alpha, Beta 1&2 and the gamma phase I find it highly unlikely we will see the same issues we experienced with X:Rebirth.

When it comes to how the ships behave I would advise you to wait until footage from the alpha phase is available. This is probably just two weeks away. The videos we have seen so far are according to the devs not a good representation of how the ships actually fly. You will, for example, be able to fly in one direction while pointing your ship in another. So wait and see.

 

[atome]

Fortunately, its likey the testing phase here will iron out most issues, UNLIKE REBIRTH!

 

[Andrew Sayers]

First the galactic scale flustercluck of X-Rebirth (The Fraud Dimension) has raised my shields to the idea of blindly throwing money at a wonderful idea, that may turn out to be a bag of the proverbial.

You've picked an unusual week to decide whether to back the game

The backers app has been open all year and still offers most of the rewards that were available back in the Kickstarter campaign. It's closing on the 6th though, to be replaced with a permanent store where you can preorder the game itself (and nothing else for now).

If none of the kickstarter rewards speak to you, save your money and wait for alpha gameplay to start popping up on Youtube next month. On the other hand, all signs so far suggest ED is going to be a great game and the £80 "free updates for life" tier will be a great investment.

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Newtonian mechanics have been the subject of endless discussion - this 500 post thread is the biggest example. The combat video isn't a particularly good guide - it was created to help the interview process for the game's composer, so some of the action has been fiddled with for musical variety. As others have said, the short summary is Newtonian mechanics with a clever flight model giving a non-Newtonian feel. The flight model is very much optimised for fun, to stop multiplayer combat from degenerating into players flying round in a circle shooting each other. I think it's fair to say only the most hardcore Newtonian people consider their solution a deal-breaker. If that's you, might I suggest Kerbal Space Program instead?

The developers are very active on the forums. Mike Evans is looking after the flight model so you might be interested in Mike's posting history. You may also be interested in the design discussion archive which has extensive information about most areas of the game.

 

[deusx_ophc]

Fortunately, its likey the testing phase here will iron out most issues, UNLIKE REBIRTH!

less qq about x:whatever and more focus on ed pls

to the op, yes it will be awesome, buy as much as you can. it be over soon (the buying special stuff)

see here for more info last orders

 

[Perseus]

I'm currently wondering whether to buy in to the game before release, but a couple of qualms are staying my hand.

First the galactic scale flustercluck of X-Rebirth (The Fraud Dimension) has raised my shields to the idea of blindly throwing money at a wonderful idea, that may turn out to be a bag of the proverbial.

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Thanks.

My advice (for what it's worth) is at least buy the £5 decal. That way, if the game's a massive success, like most of us think it will be, you'll be able to visit the Founders system. If the game is 'bad' you'll only lose a fiver instead of hundreds of quid.
Decide before 6th of December.

 

[deusx_ophc]

Fortunately, its likey the testing phase here will iron out most issues, UNLIKE REBIRTH!

You've picked an unusual week to decide whether to back the game

The backers app has been open all year and still offers most of the rewards that were available back in the Kickstarter campaign. It's closing on the 6th though, to be replaced with a permanent store where you can preorder the game itself (and nothing else for now).

If none of the kickstarter rewards speak to you, save your money and wait for alpha gameplay to start popping up on Youtube next month. On the other hand, all signs so far suggest ED is going to be a great game and the £80 "free updates for life" tier will be a great investment.



Newtonian mechanics have been the subject of endless discussion - this 500 post thread is the biggest example. The combat video isn't a particularly good guide - it was created to help the interview process for the game's composer, so some of the action has been fiddled with for musical variety. As others have said, the short summary is Newtonian mechanics with a clever flight model giving a non-Newtonian feel. The flight model is very much optimised for fun, to stop multiplayer combat from degenerating into players flying round in a circle shooting each other. I think it's fair to say only the most hardcore Newtonian people consider their solution a deal-breaker. If that's you, might I suggest Kerbal Space Program instead?

The developers are very active on the forums. Mike Evans is looking after the flight model so you might be interested in Mike's posting history. You may also be interested in the design discussion archive which has extensive information about most areas of the game.

ninja'ed

tl;dr = see my pervious post

 

[jedt]

Secondly, judging by the somewhat limited video footage of spaceships, physics in ED aren't very Newtony. The spaceships in question seem to behave like WW2 aircraft. One of the things that attracts be to the idea of ED is notion of spacecraft behaving like spacecraft, rather than aircraft.

Thanks.

erm.... it's a game, not a space flight sim

 

[Qpid Stunt]

Hi Krasny, welcome to the boards.

I haven't been around these forums or infact known about E: D being created as long as many but from what I have seen and read I feel far more confidence in DB, the staff at Frontier and the DDF to produce an amazing game.

If you haven't seen them yet, the newsletter collection is here:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5112 - wont make a hyperlink for some reason

Which contain loads of pertinent info if you are just starting to read into E: D and is a great place to go before delving into the forums for further views, debates, etc.

I can honestly say imho it looks like its going to be a great game, well thought out, well designed and implemented, would love more footage to tantalise (torment) me , but then wouldn't we all

These are great forums (Im a 40yr old gamer) and its one of the best Ive been part of.

GL in making a decision

 

[Patrick_68000]

erm.... it's a game, not a space flight sim

Yes we are here to have fun, not spend a whole afternoon to try to dock at a space station

 

[Nagual]

You've picked an unusual week to decide whether to back the game

The backers app has been open all year and still offers most of the rewards that were available back in the Kickstarter campaign. It's closing on the 6th though, to be replaced with a permanent store where you can preorder the game itself (and nothing else for now).

When I first read that I thought you meant you could only get the release version of the game, then I realised what you meant. So in case anyone else who may have got the wrong end of the stick..

The online Backers App that has served us well this year will be retired on 6th December. A new store will take its place on 9th December, as we transition to preparation for the eventual ‘retail’ release of the game.
All your details from the Backers App will be transferred automatically to the new store, and you will need to use the new store instead of the Backers App.

To start with, only the following will be available in the store:

Alpha demo access
1st Round Beta access – pre-order
2nd Round Beta access – pre-order
Elite: Dangerous game (digital copy) – pre-order
Each Alpha/Beta access will also allow access to later tests and the full game when released.

PLEASE NOTE These products will NOT be the same as the Backer reward tiers, which include other features such as starting credits, decals etc.

 

[Krasny]

Thanks for your considered replies, and apologies to anyone who considered my Newtonian question to be tiresome.

To save myself a deal of rummaging through threads past, how does the physics engine compare with the original Frontier, or its open source remake?

 

[Bikky]

Yes we are here to have fun, not spend a whole afternoon to try to dock at a space station

Speak for yourself. If the original is anything to go by, there'll be many making scorch marks on around the station entrance

 

[Greeboski]

Speak for yourself. If the original is anything to go by, there'll be many making scorch marks on around the station entrance

i recon the stations are pre-ordering as we speak . . . ''yes i was 2 dozen spare front walls , yes the whole things . havent you heard beta is on its way !''

 

[Nagual]

Speak for yourself. If the original is anything to go by, there'll be many making scorch marks on around the station entrance

Naa, Tis going to be easier than Elite, and indeed quicker than a Docking Computer..

 

[Pyros]

Thanks for your considered replies, and apologies to anyone who considered my Newtonian question to be tiresome.

To save myself a deal of rummaging through threads past, how does the physics engine compare with the original Frontier, or its open source remake?

Until Alpha goes public, we really don't know how it feels.

We do know it is a newtonian flight model, with powerful fly by wire thrust assist. In principle, it will be possible to avoid the downside of pure newtonian physics (lousy combat) while keeping it upsides ("realism" as in "spaceships - sort of - not planes").

But describing a physics engine is not much - one need to experience it to actually say something about it. And it will probably be tuned throughout Alpha and Beta stages.

Regarding planets I do expect full orbital simulation (well, withing newtonian physics, not GRT ).

 

[Patrick_68000]

Speak for yourself. If the original is anything to go by, there'll be many making scorch marks on around the station entrance

Space station is not made ​​to be damaged. Otherwise police and fine. And Pew Pew LazoR!

 

[Andrew Sayers]

Thanks for your considered replies, and apologies to anyone who considered my Newtonian question to be tiresome.

To save myself a deal of rummaging through threads past, how does the physics engine compare with the original Frontier, or its open source remake?

Physics works very differently to Frontier, because multiplayer is at the heart of this game so you can't just stick your Stardreamer on for a two week voyage. The biggest difference is that instead of normal engines and hyperdrive, you now also have an intermediate "frame-shift drive" for in-system travel.

For technical reasons, normal engines max out at 500m/s and you have to switch up into frame-shift to go any faster. This sounds like a big problem when you see it on paper, but we're assured there's nothing worth doing faster than about 250m/s but slower than relativistic speeds. The benefit of this approach is that frame-shift drive increases gravitational forces so you can do slingshot orbits in real time. I wrote a more in-depth explanation of travel systems some time ago, or you can read Frontier's proposal in full if you're really interested.

As others have said, we don't know much about how the game will feel to fly. It will probably be tweaked a lot during the alpha and beta stages, so pledging at that level may well give you some say in the answer. In the mean time, skimming Mike's posts is really the best solution. I've just had a quick look and found a post of Mike's addressing an extremely detailed post from Chris Roberts about Star Citizen's physics, the gist of which is "what he said".

 

[Jenner]

Thanks for your considered replies, and apologies to anyone who considered my Newtonian question to be tiresome.

By this time most of us regulars have a pretty thick newtonian skin, so no worries.