They are not PvP orientated or PP2 would be Open only, we don't have to interact with other players, Fdev have made that clear in their design.
O7
Crime and Punishment not fit for purpose - needs overhauling
- Thread starter rootsrat
- Start date
- Status
O7
Nope, but I am a long term PvP player, and as strange as it is to think, there is a lot of overlap in knowledge of how game systems function.
Generally it isnt, you just need to watch your back in known high-traffic systems. Engineers, potentially at the moment Rare Trades systems, Shinrarta, etc, those sort of places. If you're doing missions in a random system in the bubble, you'll likely be fine most of the time. Just keep your head on a swivel in those systems above as they're the most likely ones to have would be combatants in them.
He is not the one who needs to solve anything. Both of them are in Open.
The remaining 10% might be worth it.
Yep, absolutely. And I do 100% agree with your thoughts that PvP should be integrated more into optional parts the game. Or areas that can be easily avoided by non PvP players. Encouraging areas of activity for players. Systems with proper security and lack of security make total sense.
But keep in mind you are discussing on the forum with people that are quite familiar with Deciat, where a noob getting their ship engineered learns real fast to switch into Solo. It is the main impression that non PvP players have. (I know I shouldn't be talking on everybody's behalf. Bad form).
It is seldom I see on the forums an adherent of PvP promoting players to not play in Open if they don't feel comfortable with it.
Well its funny, because, though it might be hard to believe, most PvPer's went through the same thing. Though not Deciat, though its a good example, I remember back when i started Elite, I was killed very early into the game by someone far more skilled and better outfitted than myself, but I engaged them in conversation, made a good friend and learned a lot from them about how to survive, and eventually how to fight effectively.
It took time, and hundreds of rebuys, but eventually I got to the point where i was more capable than most in PvP encounters, after a while, I became one of the best players on the platform at the time (PS4 years ago when it was actually supported).
Instead of seeing my killers as problematic, I saw their position as something to aim for, not as a ganker initially, but purely out of the need to have to potentially defend myself should the same thing happen again. It didn't detter me from playing Open, and I would never tell players to go to Solo or PG to avoid conflict as a result, merely suggest that they should make friends with the people who do gank or do what limited amounts of PvP Powerplay that remains and at the very least learn to survive even if they don't want to choose active combat as a playstyle.
Likely its the same for most PvP players, of course its a different mindset to that of your PvE players, but being faced with adversity, no matter how steep the hill appears at first, is no reason to avoid it, embracing it is much better for a player's growth in the long term and makes them far more capable. If they choose in the long run to avoid it entirely, they're equipped with both the experience and knowledge of how to survive or massively mitigate the risks and in turn suffer very little.
Can it be harsh getting obliterated by a G5 FDL in a starter ship, of course, I would'nt even attempt to claim its not. Though equally, its something you benefit from being aware of.
I fully support the use of Solo/PG for players to get up to speed and at least work towards the insane powercreep the game has regarding ship power levels, but I find it very hard to understand the mindset of wanting to entirely avoid any sort of interaction regarding said players simply due to one bad experience.
Of course, some people are just unpleasant for the sake of it, but thats true of every game community, PvP or PvE, but that is not the majority and judging the masses by one or two bad eggs is a good portion of the reason that this community is the way that it is.
By FDev tying PvP back into the game at large, this starts to be mended, allbeit potentially slowly, but by putting PvP in a more applicable light regarding the games systems, then alliances and mercenary groups will start to form, which in turn allows for a greater degree of community and community driven effort.
There do have to be sacrifices for this though, such as Powerplay becoming an Open Only based activity, but the potential outcomes are far more worthwhile than the situation we have currently where there is disrespect from both sides which is allowed to perpetuate via the modes system having free access, and thusly in some cases, more benifits than others.
PvP players will always end up randomly murder hoboing if there is no content to support their playstyle, and PvE players will always end up hating them for it.
Until the game design fundamentally changes, this problem will be perpetuated ad infinitum.
Last edited:
First, interdictors go on everything, that's how I build things. There's another HRP for you if you need more defences.
Second, given that even with my abysmal PvP abilities, it takes 10-15 minutes to lose the 3000mj shield of one of my FdLs in a fight, 1100mj absolutely fine if my aim is just to avoid being blown up in 15- 30 seconds.
Third, of course a competently built trade ship isn't going to beat a competently built combat ship. I'll acknowledge thats the real issue here because if you can't win a fight, can't evade the 4 hollow triangles trying to shoot down your fatter, slower and less well combat optimised cargo ship, going to solo is the easiest solution. This brings us back to the unsuitability of the C&P system. If a player blows you up, all that happens is everyone gets inconvenienced to varying levels. If you do evade them, you get to do the thing you came to do anyway. We're certainly not in a place where there's thought to how this would work as a joined up gameplay scenario where everyone is able to have fun with an encounter, which is the problem.
It's a multiplayer game that allows PvP, with no PvP gameplay beyond its own sake (this might go as far as to define PvP and ganking as art, but that's probably a bit too much tongue in cheek even for me to debate). How to marry that up? Well I did have hopes for powerplay. It could have been set up do murdering non- pledged ships was still possible, but made life very difficult (constantly chased down by ATR wings, for example) but if you wanted to run the gauntlet against players trying to blow you up or nlow up traders going station to station, there's your game mode.
And that is the real truth of it. The sheer size of the map protects traders from PVP. I play open for more lucrative team missions and see maybe one other player every few dozen hours, generally another PVE player there for the same reasons I am. I engineer and do community goals in solo. My shields are in case some stray PVPer happens to find me, or I wander into a powerplay hotzone unwittingly, and so that I can engage NPC pirates and slooooooooowly grind combat ranking. Improvements to crime and punishment are specific to the OP's commitment to doing those things in Open. And, if playing in open in those environments were actually balanced and fun for traders and explorers, more of us would do it.
There are games where one doesn't have to trade shields for cargo space and traders can actually put up a meaningful fight, but that is a different topic...
For the most part, it does Yes.
Though the systems are balanced for traders and explorers, the problem isnt the balance on a direct level, its the means of interacting with the game-world. If there is no PvP based content, then PvP players will always resort to randomly exploding whatever they find.
Of course a trade ship isnt going to win a fight against a combat ship, and nor should it, but with minor engineering, they can escape and thusly they're kept safe by that, all it takes is being familiar enough with the game systems.
Overly harsh punishments for those that do PvP, such as removal of engineered modules on death, do not balance the game in the favour of traders or explorers, nor do spiraling rebuy costs, these are purely suggestions made out of malice.
Making system security more capable, was already done in the form of the ATR, though I agree in higher security systems their response time could be faster, but not to the degree where PvP players once again get shut out of game mechanics.
At the end of the day, its on the player to find solutions to the problems they might encounter in open, and instead of assuming that all gankers or PvP players are terrible people who just want to cause harm to others, try to learn from them on how best to survive them, believe me, they'll tell you, same as I have done here
There are always a few bad-actors, but thats not selective to PvP players, there are plenty in the PvE circuits too.
At the end of the day, until FDev add meaning to PvP interactions, random shootings as it were, will always be present. This isnt a failing on the players part, or that of the crime and punishment system, this is a failing of the way the game operates.
So not as dangerous as Open players would have us think then?
O7
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Closed at the request of the OP.
- Status