Crime and punishment system is a joke. Needs sorting Fdev!

Frankly more stuff should survive ship destruction
And as a vindictive pedant I feel it should either be all or nothing- if its nothing the game actually has stakes while if its everything....well, its not for me.

The whole game is unbalanced and needs a rethink in this regard- the rot began with engineering because it made players invincible. Elite is a game of consequences and should at its core remain so- otherwise ship choice, planning, random chance and piloting skill mean nothing.
 
edit: the main issue I'd have with this suggestion is the assumption that people would use it in good faith and just not report people over completely valid kills, which is not something I'd consider a safe assumption.
My design assumption in the suggestion was that people would also use it for valid kills, whatever a "valid kill" is [1], and that's fine. The opt-out is for "I obviously didn't mean to kill you and we both know that" PvE friendly-fire situations and arranged duels between people who don't want the PK flag.
(And if you get into one of those and the dead guy hits the button by mistake, one or two points can be shrugged off without consequence if you don't make a habit of it)

[1] Any that's not me, obviously.
 
Thing is, almost 100% of the current complaints would come from those who incur accidental bounties, and

it's all well and good to say "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime", but the problem is, as always, the "time" part is an excessive impost for any player following an otherwise lawful path in Elite
Well, you make an oopsie, and you face consequences. I think it's fair that the player must either escape from the system and find a place that can clear up that "misunderstanding" or turn themselves in and be transported to the jail ship for processing and paying off the minor bounty for accidental trespassing or a honest friendly fire incident with a wayward dumbfire missile. Sure, cops are jerks when they blame you if they carelessly fly into your line of fire when your shooting missiles, plasma or cannons (how did these clowns pass basic training?), but I find that very fitting to the Elite's universe🙃
- if the ship is not targeted, a small amount of fire will do nothing, then become a fine, then become a bounty.

- if untargeted but a large amount of damage (eg plasma accelerator), it would go straight to bounty

- if targeted, instantly results in a bounty
As I said, you have to be very deliberate or very negligent to get a friendly fire bounty. They can still happen if you choose to hunt in a non-haz RES, but really, for a seasoned bounty hunter it's just the cost of doing business. If it happens you just shrug it off, leave the RES to find an IF, pay it off, take a leak, grab a cold one from the fridge and head back to the RES🙂
The last one in particular can happen when target cycling
Easily avoidable by binding "target next/previous hostile", which is a huge QoL feature, anyway. And double-checking what you're shooting at when aggroing non-hostile bandits—learned that the hard way myself🙂
But it should always be easy to clear your name at low levels of criminality.
But it is, once you learn how to do it. Fines are trivial to pay off, bounties only require you to travel a little to pay off. Granted, it's not explicitly well explained in-game, but a quick web search answers it. And it's not an exception to single out—nothing is explicitly well explained in-game, even basic things like the 6-second rule when approaching your destination in supercruise or how destroying the power plant of a ship actually affects it or how power priorites work or the CC and system upkeep in Powerplay. Everything could use a little more handholding and obvious help pages with concise and clear explanations in-game.
 
The galactic equivalent of the Pony Express is still necessary for couriering data between star systems, but when I blow up an innocent ship everyone everywhere in the entire galaxy knows my name within a fraction of a second. And I thought word traveled fast in a small town!
 
it sent me 200ly away, stuck in a small jump range AX ship. I had to wait 30 MINS for a decent ship to transfer so i could get back to the station. All over 300cr.
LMAO happens to everyone at least once CMDR.

In the future ask your friends to turn off "report crimes against me"

now imagine you're the person in the middle of an Odyssy materials grind where you constantly have 10 notoriety everytime you get a fine it's just like, welp can't use this station anymore time to move on.
 
The galactic equivalent of the Pony Express is still necessary for couriering data between star systems, but when I blow up an innocent ship everyone everywhere in the entire galaxy knows my name within a fraction of a second. And I thought word traveled fast in a small town!
I think your ships computer, being wholly owned electronically by Pilot's Federation, is programmed not to lie for contractual reasons. Like how you take an Odyssey hit man job, fly to some place then hide in the darkness to dispatch a plasma ball 100m into your targets forehead, with no one to witness it you still instantly receive the bounty, albeit with no notoriety because you were doing it for a job. At the end of the day, the bounty is 1000cr for ending a human life, whether it's for a job or not determines your ability to pay that and get forgiven instantly.
I've got like 4000 (cold blooded) murders under my belt (i'm actually not proud of it I wish FDEV let me get mats without being an evil) so if tried for these crimes in any space court I'd be put to death instantly. However I, you, just get to sit there and be part of Pilot's Federation and pay pennies to cover your blood debt.
The only real fines/bounties in the game come from killing Omnipol/Players.
 
I think your ships computer, being wholly owned electronically by Pilot's Federation, is programmed not to lie for contractual reasons. Like how you take an Odyssey hit man job, fly to some place then hide in the darkness to dispatch a plasma ball 100m into your targets forehead, with no one to witness it you still instantly receive the bounty, albeit with no notoriety because you were doing it for a job. At the end of the day, the bounty is 1000cr for ending a human life, whether it's for a job or not determines your ability to pay that and get forgiven instantly.
I've got like 4000 (cold blooded) murders under my belt (i'm actually not proud of it I wish FDEV let me get mats without being an evil) so if tried for these crimes in any space court I'd be put to death instantly. However I, you, just get to sit there and be part of Pilot's Federation and pay pennies to cover your blood debt.
The only real fines/bounties in the game come from killing Omnipol/Players.
It's hilarious how Odyssey turned everyone into bloodthirsty serial killers overnight. Really sucks for Anarchy squads, their BGS is hard enough to handle without the constant randos pillaging their settlements.
 
Well, that's the nature of solo...
Hahaha yeah that's kinda funny whoops. Of course I meant Multi, but it felt like Solo for all intents and purposes. As for the sparky ' been awhile since we've had a rage quit' Has it really ? No wonder no one is on the game or hiding away. There was another comment advising it would be an impossible situation for just a glancing blow non destructive within a has res. It may supposed to be impossible and the resulting 200 credit fine payable within the same system, however this is not what occurred, which is why I said the C&P system is broken. I now have a ship showing zero fines anywhere no notoriety and yet remains locked out. But everyone who points out a flaw is jumped upon by the self appointed forum knights, which is yet another reason why the game is dying on its . Anyways, its uninstalled, had fun whilst it lasted, well thats a lie, it was fun prior to the long awaited space legs. Good luck to all, I'm outta here.
 
The galactic equivalent of the Pony Express is still necessary for couriering data between star systems, but when I blow up an innocent ship everyone everywhere in the entire galaxy knows my name within a fraction of a second. And I thought word traveled fast in a small town!
It's incredibly easy and quick to send an SMS message, no high data bandwidth needed.

It's incredibly slow to send, say, 2000 GB of raw video footage over the internet. It's literally faster to take the HDD, sit in a car and drive 3 hours than it is to wait for it to transfer over a 1 GBit connection.

I imagine interstellar comms is something like SMS--low bandwidth due to high energy requirements of punching a hole through hyperspace and large overhead for error correction. Good enough for text and a small .webp, maybe OK for compressed 32 kbit/s audio, not good for transferring large databases, video footage and other such stuff.
 
And as a vindictive pedant I feel it should either be all or nothing- if its nothing the game actually has stakes while if its everything....well, its not for me.

The whole game is unbalanced and needs a rethink in this regard- the rot began with engineering because it made players invincible. Elite is a game of consequences and should at its core remain so- otherwise ship choice, planning, random chance and piloting skill mean nothing.
the main issue is that the current situation has lead to an incredibly risk-averse community where the idea of blowing up even once is completely unacceptable, and anything that blows players up gets the devs screamed at and yet more demands to file the edges off the game so nobody ever has to see a rebuy screen. People announcing their ragequit after one (1) accident. That sort of thing. Odyssey was great when I first started it because for the first time in years I actually felt like I had to play smart and avoid fights, even when I started getting upgraded gear, I actually failed a couple of times and got packed off to the incident report - sure, I didn't lose anything besides failing my current mission, but it was still something.

You can have a game where things are dangerous and failure is commonplace, or you can have a game where failure is a serious matter with serious consequences that resets you back to stage one, but you can't really have both. Not for long anyway.
 
I actually failed a couple of times and got packed off to the incident report - sure, I didn't lose anything besides failing my current mission, but it was still something.
Since Odyssey happened I've visited many more prison facilities than before, it has inspired me to see how long it takes to visit them all...
failure is commonplace
...you've been watching me play?
 
the main issue is that the current situation has lead to an incredibly risk-averse community where the idea of blowing up even once is completely unacceptable, and anything that blows players up gets the devs screamed at and yet more demands to file the edges off the game so nobody ever has to see a rebuy screen. People announcing their ragequit after one (1) accident. That sort of thing. Odyssey was great when I first started it because for the first time in years I actually felt like I had to play smart and avoid fights, even when I started getting upgraded gear, I actually failed a couple of times and got packed off to the incident report - sure, I didn't lose anything besides failing my current mission, but it was still something.

You can have a game where things are dangerous and failure is commonplace, or you can have a game where failure is a serious matter with serious consequences that resets you back to stage one, but you can't really have both. Not for long anyway.
Thats on FD really- I can think of several junction points where a couple of squealies put the brakes on sensible changes.

The only way out now is twofold: develop parts of the game that are actually dangerous and rewarding (effectively compartmentalise) and then stick to your guns and keep them hard edged.

FD seem to be doing this with Powerplay V2- especially with the open (pun fully intended) talk about modes and putting in place ships that favour the spicy. So in the end if you want an easier game you can have one, and if you want something thats more brutal (hopefully) it will also be there, failure included.
 
The only way out now is twofold: develop parts of the game that are actually dangerous and rewarding (effectively compartmentalise) and then stick to your guns and keep them hard edged.
Yeah. One thing I learned from watching the AXI discord when spire sites became the meta is that whatever the current most lucrative activity in the game is, people will get foaming-at-the-mouth-mad if they experience any difficulty doing it. Hordes of people who'd never so much as sneezed at a cyclops before going into massive screaming invective in the voice chat because nobody had cleared out the banshees at the AXI private group instance at 2am, or someone started sabotaging the spires so medusas showed up, or even that someone triggered an orthrus that they weren't expecting and they got shut down and that hurt their credits per hour.

God forbid the thing that pays the most have some risk to it.
 
Yeah. One thing I learned from watching the AXI discord when spire sites became the meta is that whatever the current most lucrative activity in the game is, people will get foaming-at-the-mouth-mad if they experience any difficulty doing it. Hordes of people who'd never so much as sneezed at a cyclops before going into massive screaming invective in the voice chat because nobody had cleared out the banshees at the AXI private group instance at 2am, or someone started sabotaging the spires so medusas showed up, or even that someone triggered an orthrus that they weren't expecting and they got shut down and that hurt their credits per hour.

God forbid the thing that pays the most have some risk to it.
Its this reason alone that PP V2 needs to (sorry mods!) be Open slanted or simply be really, really hard at the top end where the players do the most.

Given its got a ten tier pathway (with subsequent care parcels) I dearly want that to be earnt in blood- its also why I want to see modules mixed here too. You want the goodies, then get involved- none of this Tesco shopping shenanigans.
 
Its this reason alone that PP V2 needs to (sorry mods!) be Open slanted or simply be really, really hard at the top end where the players do the most.

Given its got a ten tier pathway (with subsequent care parcels) I dearly want that to be earnt in blood- its also why I want to see modules mixed here too. You want the goodies, then get involved- none of this Tesco shopping shenanigans.
The other issue is that when fdev do nerf credit fountains they often do so in a way that wrecks the activity for people who aren't going absolutely nuts with it.

Take the egg, for instance. That was a random rare chance discovery that paid an incredibly lucrative amount and lead to a gold rush when people posted its location and everyone dived on it.
The solution that was implemented? Nerf hotspot overlaps altogether and also impose massive demand cuts for low-temp diamonds so mining LTDs everywhere got hit with the bat, not just at the egg.

My personal solution would have been to scramble the asteroids on the weekly tick. Just put an incrementing counter on the seed number used to generate the mineral yields. That way, insanely lucrative things like the egg would still be possible and could even lead to gold rushes (which are good! They concentrate player activity and get people playing!) but they'd naturally be short-lived and disappear on Thursday morning.
It'd also encourage people to learn how to find good mining sites for themselves instead of just blindly following whatever instructions were posted on reddit or youtube 2 years ago. (when was the last "why did I get a bounty at arai's mine?" thread? It's been a while since we had one of those at least)
 
Its this reason alone that PP V2 needs to (sorry mods!) be Open slanted or simply be really, really hard at the top end where the players do the most.
If it is made hard, or dangerous, or even mildly challenging, given the 'average' ED player is risk averse, two things are likely to happen:
  • Few but the 'hardcore players joining in PP 2.0
  • Outrage on the forum & social media, with complaints crayonned on any available surface...
It may be too late to do anything with ED that puts players at any more risk than is presented in normal play (i.e. almost zero), so it will be interesting to see how FD bake this particular cake!
 
The other issue is that when fdev do nerf credit fountains they often do so in a way that wrecks the activity for people who aren't going absolutely nuts with it.

Take the egg, for instance. That was a random rare chance discovery that paid an incredibly lucrative amount and lead to a gold rush when people posted its location and everyone dived on it.
The solution that was implemented? Nerf hotspot overlaps altogether and also impose massive demand cuts for low-temp diamonds so mining LTDs everywhere got hit with the bat, not just at the egg.

My personal solution would have been to scramble the asteroids on the weekly tick. Just put an incrementing counter on the seed number used to generate the mineral yields. That way, insanely lucrative things like the egg would still be possible and could even lead to gold rushes (which are good! They concentrate player activity and get people playing!) but they'd naturally be short-lived and disappear on Thursday morning.
Nah, this stuff is stuffing the egg back into the shell. They should have just thought about mining better before unleashing that massive brainfart. E84 had precious metals and gems in Kilos and Grams. They should have thought about why that was a good idea in 84 before blazing their own trail in 2014. Mining was OK, we just wanted it a little more profitable, no one said blow it out totally and make us do nothing but mono-mine one "precious" gem at a time. I don't know how this stuff is "precious", I must have mined enough to build an entire Coriolis out of the stuff by now. Poor planning leads to poor games.
 
If it is made hard, or dangerous, or even mildly challenging, given the 'average' ED player is risk averse, two things are likely to happen:
  • Few but the 'hardcore players joining in PP 2.0
  • Outrage on the forum & social media, with complaints crayonned on any available surface...
It may be too late to do anything with ED that puts players at any more risk than is presented in normal play (i.e. almost zero), so it will be interesting to see how FD bake this particular cake!
This is why I said top end - because its these players that really drive PP and not the casuals doing small amounts. FD should resist social media and grow a spine, given they listened to these people in the past and frankly made the game worse- for example the shield rework that went nowhere. I'd also wager that you'd be surprised at who switches.

This can be done via many ways but it has to be there otherwise PP V2 will just be a prettier version of the BGS. For example weighting, or separating out personal and global (power) rewards based on mode (so only those in open get both, while those in solo / PG get the personal only).

You can also do it via missions where difficulty can be built in- so a player can choose a low end mission for little reward (but also minimal risk) while those who want high return can risk far more.

FD themselves are releasing PP V2 and then assessing Open only for it, or some sort of tweak- the problem they have is that they are repeating the same mistake they did with V1...i.e. mode parity. In V2 you have areas that require others to work, and that the devs themselves talk about PvP fights (and even release SCO ships) but stop short.

So its double jeopardy- playing safe might appear a wise design choice but so far in EDs life thats just stored up problems. Since PP is a game within a game (with its own bounty system, territory system, player ID system etc) it has scope to be 'the' combat mode within a greater ED that is 'soft'.
 
FD seem to be doing this with Powerplay V2- especially with the open (pun fully intended) talk about modes and putting in place ships that favour the spicy. So in the end if you want an easier game you can have one, and if you want something thats more brutal (hopefully) it will also be there, failure included.

Keep fingers crossed, keep fingers crossed!
 
It's hilarious how Odyssey turned everyone into bloodthirsty serial killers overnight. Really sucks for Anarchy squads, their BGS is hard enough to handle without the constant randos pillaging their settlements.
With the Thargoid distraction gone, everyone and their mama is now going murder hobo in anarchy systems once again. We've already lost 3 of our 28 systems in the last two weeks, despite valiantly trying to defend them. There is too much downward pressure to cope with, unless you want to turn the game into a full time job. We had a good run, but it seems we're finally done for. 🖖
 
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