Crime Update Discussion

[Distance]

Regards to piracy it doesn't matter what systems are put in place if FD don't start punishing combat logging nothing related to crime and punishments matter. Traders will still combat log to avoid dropping cargo or getting killed and player killers will still pull the plug to avoid death.

Even if players have massive legitimate bounties put on their heads if they're tracked down by a bounty hunter they can combat log, log in in solo and run away.

I'm still an advocate for players being forced in to open when they're wanted (dependent on the crime) but still a moot point until combat logging is punished.

 

[Wolfzx12r]

the problem with ANY fines for assult is abuse...
2 player wings jump you (yes it is technically possible to do this) each one fires on you until they reach the fine of 1000 cr and take out your shields and then 1 of them kills you and gets the murder tag... rinse and repeat... only 1 is ever guilty of murder and with the other players protecting that player from any would be bounty hunters and NPC police... there would be people crying over how its unfair because they cannot fire back on most of the ships because they are clean (with only a fine) not wanted...

Not at all hence a timed trigger on the fine, so you trigger a fine at what ever cr's it set to say 500cr which is one mistake pay it off within 2 hour before it turns into a full wanted tag. As far as the Wing of 2 players that's almost how it works now one Wing ship takes you on with the other as their back up one ship kills you the other doesn't get the murder tag as he didn't murder you. But that wing could end up with one fine an one murder charge against them, again like all of use we have the choice to pay it off straight away or keep going like most bounty hunters and pirates do.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The trigger point can be adjusted to what ever cr's threshold, most players don't like running around with any type of wanted tag anyway. As far as pirates go they will attack for cargo whether you have a wanted tag or not. The point is players need at least a chance to pay off a mistake firing on a ship, I know I have always run to pay mine off, if I was then to ignore a Fine tag I would then take a wanted tag and open myself up to the wrath of the system/galaxy hunters.


I have a faction hostile tag atm with no wanted tags, that faction is red on my scanner and they open fire as soon as I hit the system even though the ships that attack me are not wanted I can't fire back and defend myself without picking up a wanted tag against me! If I pick up one of their wanted ships and take it out for the bounty the whole faction jumps in on me again if they are not wanted ships and I hit one I pick up a tag.

Oh you meant each shot counts as an assault? Will that mean if I kill someone as pirate, I'll have to pay 6000k + 200cr for every bullet I use? What about beam lasers how will they work? Will a 20sec trigger pull count as one shot? How about Plasma accelerators? I could kill someone with 4 shots from that thing.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Regards to piracy it doesn't matter what systems are put in place if FD don't start punishing combat logging nothing related to crime and punishments matter. Traders will still combat log to avoid dropping cargo or getting killed and player killers will still pull the plug to avoid death.

Even if players have massive legitimate bounties put on their heads if they're tracked down by a bounty hunter they can combat log, log in in solo and run away.

Agreed, combat logging is the most important fix needed.

I'm still an advocate for players being forced in to open when they're wanted (dependent on the crime) but still a moot point until combat logging is punished.

This I disagree with, if pirates and criminals are forced to stay in open but noone else, how is that fair? I'm all for locking to solo or open, but not only for some people, while allowing others to abuse it.

 

[excalibus]

Not at all hence a timed trigger on the fine, so you trigger a fine at what ever cr's it set to say 500cr which is one mistake pay it off within 2 hour before it turns into a full wanted tag. As far as the Wing of 2 players that's almost how it works now one Wing ship takes you on with the other as their back up one ship kills you the other doesn't get the murder tag as he didn't murder you. But that wing could end up with one fine an one murder charge against them, again like all of use we have the choice to pay it off straight away or keep going like most bounty hunters and pirates do.

I said 2 wings not a wing of 2 players so you'de be looking at 5 to 6 players depending if they use the wing/leave join tactic to get both wings into the same instance
Furthermore marking the whole wing for a murder might be a work around but then we will have more people coming here crying that they got a bounty for murder because of one 'rogue' element in their wing etc.. etc... although I really have no problems myself with all members in a wing being branded based on the actions of an individual wing member as LONG as they do the same for NPC wings and make all wing members scanned as wanted and hostile the moment one memeber attacks a cleanskin etc...

And yes they need to fix combat logging with either temporary login bans for people caught doing it or more extreme measures for habitual combat loggers, I would also not object to a longer logout timer (say 30 - 45 seconds) when using the in game logout system as long as I have the option to close the game legitimately while the client times down... Should I logout and the choose to close the game instead of wait for the timer then my ship should remain at current speed and heading for the duration of the timer and if I am destroyed by the other player during this time then so be it...

 

[Distance]

Agreed, combat logging is the most important fix needed.


This I disagree with, if pirates and criminals are forced to stay in open but noone else, how is that fair? I'm all for locking to solo or open, but not only for some people, while allowing others to abuse it.

This isn't the solo vs open discussion so we can't really discuss it here. It was in the DDF where they mentioned locking criminals in to open (regardless of starting mode ) hence why I brought it up.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

And yes they need to fix combat logging with either temporary login bans for people caught doing it or more extreme measures for habitual combat loggers, I would also not object to a longer logout timer (say 30 - 45 seconds) when using the in game logout system as long as I have the option to close the game legitimately while the client times down... Should I logout and the choose to close the game instead of wait for the timer then my ship should remain at current speed and heading for the duration of the timer and if I am destroyed by the other player during this time then so be it...

The logout timer should last exactly as long as it would take you to spool up the FSD and jump - taking account of any mass locking that might be around. Indeed, the ship should actually do a FSD jump (as far as other ships in the instance are concerned), but should not go anywhere, and following their wake would obviously not work.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

I'm still an advocate for players being forced in to open when they're wanted (dependent on the crime) but still a moot point until combat logging is punished.

Change that to players being forced in to open when they have a bounty from open, and I'll agree. What definitely does NOT need to happen is a solo player being forced into open because he wanted to play as a pirate in his/her solo game. Believe it or not, the whole game is played in solo, not just trading. I can't even remember the last time I made a trade run.

 

[excalibus]

i do not agree with forcing gameplay modes on anyone... just make it so to logout to change game mode takes a bit longer than it currently does, not unreasonably long but longer than 15 seconds and maybe have a local broadcast message (if not in supercruise) that states you are logging out when you click the logout button... At least this will tell other commanders you are using the in game logout option so they won't mis-report you for logging out...

 

[Jake_blakeson]

Perhaps there should be different levels of fines, so if you accidently shoot an NPC once you get a small fine, if you knock out his shields and do hull damage then the fine goes up. Then once your fines reach a certain level a bounty is created and cannot be just paid off, or perhaps besides just fines add different levels of offense, similar to real life, if you get a landing violation you get a misdemeanor charge which can be paid off, where as killing a pilot outside a warzone is a felony and felonies create bounties where a misdemeanor can be paid off.

 

[Mortifa]

Okay, I hope the developers are still looking at this.

About the murdering, I propose a form of consent.

A player wishes to do some PVP, but not in a CZ out in open space.

If he just attacks another commander he receives the harshest penalty. His funds are automatically reduced half the rebuy cost of the commanders whose ship he just destroyed, this money is immediately applied to the aggrieved commanders re-buy cost and may not be a cash balance applied to his credits. The offending Commander is also fined the value of the ship he destroyed as a Galactic fine for that faction and a class difference rating is applied. An Asp that takes out an Eagle would have a combat factor of 4 which would equate to four times the insurance rebuy cost is the system fine. The inverse of the combat factor is an eagle that takes on an Asp gets a -4 combat rating and there would be no system fine, just the Galactic one for loss of control.

How does consent factor in.

So you are out and just need to kill something, little brother ate your pizza, old lady put you in the dog house, you are just demented.. whatever. You see a ship, hail him, "Prepare yourself you are going to die!!!!" The ship replies, "such fecal matter through a straw". It is on, no fine. But if the other commander does not respond and you attack all penalties apply. If he wins, he gets no fines but a bounty worth the difference in combat ratings as described above, you pay your insurance, sucks to be you.

You are flying along and someone attacks you. You fight them off and destroy them, no fine, bounty as described.

Furthermore, a commander cannot pay off his bounty for twenty four hours and is hostile in that and surrounding systems. Galnet will put out an All Players Bulletin advising of the wanted players location, unless he moves only in anarchy space or into a non-aligned major power. If you are wanted by the Feds, the Alliance and Empire like you, sort of....

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Okay, I hope the developers are still looking at this.

About the murdering, I propose a form of consent.

A player wishes to do some PVP, but not in a CZ out in open space.

If he just attacks another commander he receives the harshest penalty. His funds are automatically reduced half the rebuy cost of the commanders whose ship he just destroyed, this money is immediately applied to the aggrieved commanders re-buy cost and may not be a cash balance applied to his credits. The offending Commander is also fined the value of the ship he destroyed as a Galactic fine for that faction and a class difference rating is applied. An Asp that takes out an Eagle would have a combat factor of 4 which would equate to four times the insurance rebuy cost is the system fine. The inverse of the combat factor is an eagle that takes on an Asp gets a -4 combat rating and there would be no system fine, just the Galactic one for loss of control.

Um no, way too harsh and flys in the face of the game. Attacking and killing is part of the game. Whether you're a pirate or just a psycho, killing people is allowed. it's not an exploit that needs to be stopped.

 

[DoomU]

If you want more players in open space ,then increase the rewards by 20%. Everyone will take the dangers of open play for more reward.

 

[Mortifa]

Um no, way too harsh and flys in the face of the game. Attacking and killing is part of the game. Whether you're a pirate or just a psycho, killing people is allowed. it's not an exploit that needs to be stopped.

Not that harsh at all, actually.

You just randomly go and kill someone who fully kitted out a Vulture, because, well who knows, there should be ramifications. Now if you engage him, role play, there is no repercussion...

But from your statement I take it you think people should be allowed to just kill people and be called bad boys?

 

[Dejay]

I would love smuggling being more profitable (not the missions but regular trading with illegal goods).

Additionally it would be great if you could buy special shielded cargo containers that look like other modules on a scan and only has a small change of discovery of your illegal goods, but has smaller cargo capacity.

 

[Deadlytaste]

Not that harsh at all, actually.

You just randomly go and kill someone who fully kitted out a Vulture, because, well who knows, there should be ramifications. Now if you engage him, role play, there is no repercussion...

But from your statement I take it you think people should be allowed to just kill people and be called bad boys?

It's called Elite: Dangerous not for being nice and easy to all players. You start out low and you can risk everything. If you attack someone you usually get a bounty on your head. (as far as I know). So why should you punish people who do evil stuff. It's already hard to be a pirate or killer. I mean you don't really get much profit out of it, and the risk getting hunted down by others is always present.

I don't bother if it would make the killer appear at galnet and make him wanted for some time before he can pay off his bounty. But hell he could just log off for couple hours go do a hooker or gf, watch deep space 9, come back and pay of his bounty and do something else untill his next urge of serial killer mentalty comes up again.

If people don't like to get killed join the Solo mode, there you can talk to npcs. Hell even most of the NPCs are more ballsy as they exist so many pirates of em.
With your idea you would make it even worse to do anything illegal, it forces others to play something else, because you get punished harder than you should.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Not that harsh at all, actually.

You just randomly go and kill someone who fully kitted out a Vulture, because, well who knows, there should be ramifications. Now if you engage him, role play, there is no repercussion...

But from your statement I take it you think people should be allowed to just kill people and be called bad boys?

No I don't fly a fully kitted vulture, I fly a fully kitted clipper. I'm a pirate, I don't kill unless my targets refuse to cooperate.

Don't pretend to know my motivations, I do want a harsher punishments. What I don't want is, magic credit stealing ghosts taking from my bank account if I kill someone.

 

[CARLOS3]

it is quite simple people!

A player who kills another gets a bounty, say 5% of the value
his ship.
Intro punishment he can not pay for a station, but this penalty can only
be cleared by the destruction of his ship. (By a bounty hunter).
To avoid this, it can be shoot from a friend to share with him the bounty, he may ship with whom he has killed a commander
not change and it must also replace any other equipment more.
If he can kill anyway from a friend, so he definitely has
a greater loss than half of the bounty.

Problem solved.
Cheers

 

[CARLOS3]

It's called Elite: Dangerous not for being nice and easy to all players. You start out low and you can risk everything. If you attack someone you usually get a bounty on your head. (as far as I know). So why should you punish people who do evil stuff. It's already hard to be a pirate or killer. I mean you don't really get much profit out of it, and the risk getting hunted down by others is always present.

I don't bother if it would make the killer appear at galnet and make him wanted for some time before he can pay off his bounty. But hell he could just log off for couple hours go do a hooker or gf, watch deep space 9, come back and pay of his bounty and do something else untill his next urge of serial killer mentalty comes up again.

If people don't like to get killed join the Solo mode, there you can talk to npcs. Hell even most of the NPCs are more ballsy as they exist so many pirates of em.
With your idea you would make it even worse to do anything illegal, it forces others to play something else, because you get punished harder than you should.

Exactly, it is called Elite Dangerous !!

This means also that you have to lose as a pirate as much as a dealer if you get caught !!!

A dealer in a T9 loses when firing up to 15 million credit ....
And you ???????

 

[CMDRJob']

I would love smuggling being more profitable (not the missions but regular trading with illegal goods).

Additionally it would be great if you could buy special shielded cargo containers that look like other modules on a scan and only has a small change of discovery of your illegal goods, but has smaller cargo capacity.

I actually think the physical implementation of getting your ship past a scanner in the variety of different methods that we have now is one of the strong points of the game. I wouldn't like to see any buffs for smugglers in the way of shielded cargo containers I like that smuggling currently takes a bit of skill and luck and I would want them to make it easier, just make it more rewarding. If it's made easier, then it wouldn't justify higher rewards and I see that as a backwards way to approach it.

I definitely agree that smuggling should be much more profitable. Really I feel like it should be more profitable than trading because of the higher risks, but I would be happy if it was at least somewhat close to the profit a good trader can make. It's one of my favorite aspects of elites gameplay, but as a career choice I just don't think its worth it