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So indignant for someone that already answered the question themself
Go look at the drives people have because they landed the right secondaries on them.
I hope you will meet the right people once that will teach you what is wrong with your attitude...the hard way
So indignant for someone that already answered the question themself
Go look at the drives people have because they landed the right secondaries on them.
I haven't answered my own question, you answer makes no sense
He was pointing out that I'd said I got 30% optimal mass (which is the maximum without a secondary effect)
And was implying you can get higher than that without a secondary effect, you can't, 30% is the most you can get (my total is actually 42%, 30 max plus 12 secondary which my first post here says)
Then a bonus gets added on, or secondary effect which raises it higher
So what your saying is that even though I rolled 30+ 12 for 42% total with secondary it's probably other factors that are weighing me down as I can do no where near those kind of speeds
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This is a nice thread with a ton of good advice.
Chipping in on a few things:
No, because the solution to plasma is to be hit by it as infrequently as possible: evasion + active bi-weave regen. A high-resistance, low-mass Ferdie with +10% active bi-weave regen and possibly +x% broken regen also, boosting to 540 or 550 mps, will in the right hands survive against plasma longer than a heavy Ferdie with a prismatic and stacked heavy duty boosters and scant regen.
I'd strongly advise against packing a primary weapon set with high draw and a secondary weapon set with high draw. (And yes, even with efficient, I do mean your PA's and huge beam are high draw.) The problem is that the one sucks the wep cap dry and when you want to fire the other, you have nothing to play with. It's too much.
Therefore if you want to keep the quad PA setup, I'd advise dropping your huge weapon down to a multi or cannon or even a pulse, maybe even a frag ... basically anything except a beam.
Alternatively if you want to keep the beam, consider dropping down on your medium hardpoints.
Whatever you do, I'd seriously question the fixed mediums and gimballed huge. Although there are some excellent pilots that like this setup, it's very sub-optimal in terms of Ferdie placement. You'll get considerably more ToT in a 20 minute engagement with the gimbal(s) on top and the fixed on the bottom.
I'm afraid that could be a death sentence, because many of your enemies will be running at 540-550 mps and packing long range super penetrator rails. Plus missiles and plasma. If you want to run a Ferdie that slow, do your Sir Robin before the shield drops!
Basically by reason of the secondaries, assuming that the mass multiplier is something in the normal park, +37% is considered the start of 'acceptable', in serious PvP.
+35% is kind of entry point. There are some exceptional builds with around that or lower that are good but only because of an insane mass multiplier.
But with a normal mass multiplier, less than +35% just means more CIF gathering.
There's a thread here about higher level rolls:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/366176-OK-so-post-your-god-rolls
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Got a screenie? +42% is a god roll, so you should be moving fast even with a crummy mass multiplier. These aren't Enhanced Drives, are they (you have to deduct 15%)? But yeah, it could be that the mass multiplier is the issue here.
Chipping in on a few things:
No, because the solution to plasma is to be hit by it as infrequently as possible: evasion + active bi-weave regen. A high-resistance, low-mass Ferdie with +10% active bi-weave regen and possibly +x% broken regen also, boosting to 540 or 550 mps, will in the right hands survive against plasma longer than a heavy Ferdie with a prismatic and stacked heavy duty boosters and scant regen.
I'd strongly advise against packing a primary weapon set with high draw and a secondary weapon set with high draw. (And yes, even with efficient, I do mean your PA's and huge beam are high draw.) The problem is that the one sucks the wep cap dry and when you want to fire the other, you have nothing to play with. It's too much.
Therefore if you want to keep the quad PA setup, I'd advise dropping your huge weapon down to a multi or cannon or even a pulse, maybe even a frag ... basically anything except a beam.
Alternatively if you want to keep the beam, consider dropping down on your medium hardpoints.
Whatever you do, I'd seriously question the fixed mediums and gimballed huge. Although there are some excellent pilots that like this setup, it's very sub-optimal in terms of Ferdie placement. You'll get considerably more ToT in a 20 minute engagement with the gimbal(s) on top and the fixed on the bottom.
I'm afraid that could be a death sentence, because many of your enemies will be running at 540-550 mps and packing long range super penetrator rails. Plus missiles and plasma. If you want to run a Ferdie that slow, do your Sir Robin before the shield drops!
Basically by reason of the secondaries, assuming that the mass multiplier is something in the normal park, +37% is considered the start of 'acceptable', in serious PvP.
+35% is kind of entry point. There are some exceptional builds with around that or lower that are good but only because of an insane mass multiplier.
But with a normal mass multiplier, less than +35% just means more CIF gathering.
There's a thread here about higher level rolls:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/366176-OK-so-post-your-god-rolls
EDIT:
Got a screenie? +42% is a god roll, so you should be moving fast even with a crummy mass multiplier. These aren't Enhanced Drives, are they (you have to deduct 15%)? But yeah, it could be that the mass multiplier is the issue here.
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This is an interesting comment; as a PvP beginner, my impression is that 4-0-2 adds WAY more survivability than 0-4-2 - by a long margin. That is, unless your opponent is using slow (e.g. non-Long Range) Plasma, then it makes sense - I guess that boosting sideways while rolling would make you a VERY hard-to-hit target with fixed weapons.
But the new thing for me, was pairing this with a Bi-Weave shield: as a matter of fact, the only duel I lost (not that I had many...) in the past couple of weeks was against deZpe, who packed Bi-Weaves. Food for thought...
TS does a vid on gimballed lasers in PvP that would answer this perfectly.
FA-Off Evasion tanking, remembering chaff is still totally viable, can be very effective on ships - especially smaller vessels or those with a smaller hit profile from the front (e.g. ferdie)
I personally wouldn't run with bi-weaves on a FDL, because I still wouldn't expect to avoid any hits at all for reasonably over 10 seconds a go. But that's part of my general philosophy...create your ship to easily beat weaker enemies and that's what they'll do. Build it to take on someone with a skill advantage and you'll stand a chance against those better
I'll even run 0/4/2 on my iCutter when FA Off if I can swing into a nice position and start a strong strafe. But I'd go back to 4/0/2 when taking heavy DPS. All situational, bro.
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I didn't say it was the 'Max', I said it was the max without a bonus which it is,
Yes they did, below:
In Reply to this
"How can anyone have a combat build faster than that and call 500 slow? I have 30% (max on dirty drives)"
Which is what I said, except he missed out my next sentence saying I also had +12, implying there was a way to get more than 30% without a secondary.
And what do you mean by that,
Everything here is true "Thats why your answer makes no sense I literally said those exact things in my first post because I already know that, so why bother pointing it out again?
Do I really need to quote myself?"
1. You tried to make it look like I didn't know it could go over 30%, said this in my first post so obviously knew that
2. You kept pointing it out when I had already said those things
3. Your just trying to troll me now
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Lol, deZpe is undoubtedly 'one to watch' ... seriously good FdL pilot still relatively new to PvP, o7 ... but I think you'll find that Ferdie pilots of his ability level are quite shockingly good at juggling Sys and Eng pips ... so they almost manage to use 4 pip tanking and boost evasion at the same time! Many of the SDC guys and also longtime greats like BreakfastMelon and Morbad are awesome at this.
Yes, I saw that. 0-4-2 shieldless hull tank FdL with Chaff galore and only gimballed pulses... why didn't I think of that before!
I don't use it because it wouldn't be fun, I think only a ridiculously skilled Plasma user or a lot of rails would counter that.
That is one of the lessons I gathered from that encounter. Which is why I am remapping my pips controls to be able to get to ANY configuration with multiples of 2 from ANY other configuration with no more than two flicks. T.A.R.G.E.T. Script Editor FTW!
I am glad SOMEONE likes the TARGET software.
If I ever need cheering up though, I just look up what it stands for, and remind myself how bad their marketing team was at creating acronyms.
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Truesilver, thanks for your valued input, though now I'm back to square 1 completely. Again, let me digest what you wrote and get back to you in a bit. worth mentioning though, in case you missed it, I'm an instinctive pip fiddler, it's almost muscle memory, I'm *that* guy that seems to have full weapons pips when firing and full shield pips when taking damage, cos that always seemed like the smart thing to do. I almost don't have to think about it any more. I also wouldn't be firing the beam and the PAs in the same encounter. Either it will be a non pvp spec ship, and therefore I will use the beam only to avoid wasting PA ammo, or it will be a pvp specced ship and I would focus on hitting with the PAs. But now you mentioned that people can avoid them, I am reminded that I too can avoid them when the NPCs use them, even at point blank range, strafe rolling makes them trivial to avoid while still doing alpha in their face, so yeh, perhaps I will go full lasers, maybe rapid fire burst or pulse with a nasty secondary...
I'm glad I started this conversation with a number of weeks still to go before actually doing this build and engineering it. lol. Seems I'm going to be going back and forth on this more than once!
I'm glad I started this conversation with a number of weeks still to go before actually doing this build and engineering it. lol. Seems I'm going to be going back and forth on this more than once!
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Ha ha - now I feel bad. You can theory craft too much in this game. There's something to be said for just throwing something you like the look of together and going and incurring some rebuys. That's how us 'greybeards' actually learned, originally ... personally I first deployed an FdL in PvP in June 2015 with creds for three rebuys, and went back to trade grinding for more creds once I'd used my money up (it didn't take long...)
It happens.
My personal advice: build a couple of ships that share most of their core modules so you can keep it fresh. You don't have to be on the same loadout from the moment you build the ship to the day you hang your Elite hat up. I haven't used my FDL in some time; I stopped maintaining it and get in my iClipper, FGS or FAS frequently, as well as the odd stint in a Python. They all share the same thrusters, so I only need to worry about that hassle the once. But each of them is a fairly different experience to fight in.
There's a lot to be said for not going too overboard with engineering before you get involved. You might want to try some stock duels just to see what works for you.
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Lots of great advice here.
Favourited.
Favourited.
How's the Python in PvP? Just curious, is it theoretically possible to fly one at the top level?
I think you're right. I'm going to have to build a few ships and see. Cos I loved my FAS and I hear it's also a good pvp ship, I love my python too, and I want to try the FDL. I may end up somewhere else completely. I'll be back with some thoughts in an hour or so (or probably sooner, knowing me, but I need to catch up on MOTD2 first anyway, one of few curses of living in Greece, I miss the footy!).
Certainly, provided it's flown backwards.
Erm.
It feels very weird to use this term for something so big and with space for HRPs, but it's a glass cannon.
Being big is WHY it's a glass cannon though. It doesn't have a great speed, is propelling a huge brick that's remarkably easy to hit, and if your shields drop then your attacker basically gets to sit down like a fat kid and point out which of your modules he gets to eat first.
I always wondered why the ship gets such disgusting firepower, but at least the bulk takes an edge off its PvP ability. In PvE I regard it as perhaps the strongest ship outside the big 3; in PvP...well it's excellent if you want to surprise a single enemy and pour dat unholy DPS on them. I'd probably rather pilot a sidewinder into winged PvP, though.
I kinda knew it, again that's what makes the NPC ones a preferred target of mine. Shame, cos I'm very comfortable in mine. Plus, based on what Truesilver said, I'm not into fighting backwards as a main strategy, just as something to use situationally.
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Instead of the FDL, get a FAS, its more maneuverable, half the rebuy (4mil).
Good weapons would be 4 PAs or 4 Frags.
Bi weave shields with thermal resist and 2 boosters and 2 heat sinks.
Armoured plant, 1 MRP and rest HRPS heavy duty. Military armour also heavy duty.
If you dont like pip management, remove the shield and boosters, 4 heat sinks for silent running 100% and put another HRP instead of the shield, keep pips to 0-4-2 or 0-3-3.
Good weapons would be 4 PAs or 4 Frags.
Bi weave shields with thermal resist and 2 boosters and 2 heat sinks.
Armoured plant, 1 MRP and rest HRPS heavy duty. Military armour also heavy duty.
If you dont like pip management, remove the shield and boosters, 4 heat sinks for silent running 100% and put another HRP instead of the shield, keep pips to 0-4-2 or 0-3-3.
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