David Braben on free & paid-for content after Beyond (from PC Gamer interview)

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think people mix up two things - fact that game does universally well and our subjective feelings about state it's in.

Some people thing game is all wrong and this information kinda clashes with it. That means they are in some kind of minority, going around complaining about the game. I hope those are very few and far between, because it is pointless. ED is what it is and if you don't like it fundamentally, no way trying to dig out some evidence about ED 'weakness' gonna make that situation work out for you.

Some people feel that company saying it is all good kinda swaps aside all complains and issues and suggestions, undercutting criticism. I really don't see point way, but hey, human logic is strange sometimes. And sometimes our pet bugs makes us to be a bit hyperbolic about state of the game ("I can't play this game because of issue x and y." "But you can still play rest of alphabet!" "But I can't!"). We are subjective and that again clashes with such statements.

In nutshell, game doing good doesn't remove validity of your experience and complains about issues. Neither that voids mine and other player enjoyment of the game. It really feels some players have convinced themselves that some sort of bizzare public shaming and deprivation of the game will force company to act sooner / faster / fix bugs better. It is so childish behaviour but that's very prevalent in gaming community.

Simple reality is ED will be never fully finished. It will be always advancing, improving. There's always been issues you will find. If you can't enjoy ED for what it is then don't. Don't hang around like unwanted lover. There's tons of other games out there. Don't seek to undermine FD position when there's really nothing to undermine. Yes, we don't know nothing. But let's be honest - what has active player numbers anything to do with your enjoyment (or not) of the game?

 

[Enderby]

Shall we wait and see before peeing our pants with excitement or condeming Brabers to the stocks?

Could be real nice stuff.

Could be lame as...

Let’s at least wait and see?

 

[Stigbob]

I think people mix up two things - fact that game does universally well and our subjective feelings about state it's in.

Some people thing game is all wrong and this information kinda clashes with it. That means they are in some kind of minority, going around complaining about the game. I hope those are very few and far between, because it is pointless. ED is what it is and if you don't like it fundamentally, no way trying to dig out some evidence about ED 'weakness' gonna make that situation work out for you.

Some people feel that company saying it is all good kinda swaps aside all complains and issues and suggestions, undercutting criticism. I really don't see point way, but hey, human logic is strange sometimes. And sometimes our pet bugs makes us to be a bit hyperbolic about state of the game ("I can't play this game because of issue x and y." "But you can still play rest of alphabet!" "But I can't!"). We are subjective and that again clashes with such statements.

In nutshell, game doing good doesn't remove validity of your experience and complains about issues. Neither that voids mine and other player enjoyment of the game. It really feels some players have convinced themselves that some sort of bizzare public shaming and deprivation of the game will force company to act sooner / faster / fix bugs better. It is so childish behaviour but that's very prevalent in gaming community.

Simple reality is ED will be never fully finished. It will be always advancing, improving. There's always been issues you will find. If you can't enjoy ED for what it is then don't. Don't hang around like unwanted lover. There's tons of other games out there. Don't seek to undermine FD position when there's really nothing to undermine. Yes, we don't know nothing. But let's be honest - what has active player numbers anything to do with your enjoyment (or not) of the game?

It's simpler than that, misery loves company.

 

[House0fDerp]

Like it makes any difference to you as a player. You just need something to complain about.

Directly? Possibly yes it does make a difference if they play in open and want to see more other commanders. Indirectly? Something something game financial performance driving development resources something something.

It also might provide a measure of player engagement and satisfaction with the product that raw sales of the core product cannot (as well as deeper stats about how players play the game). And if you have any complaints about the product it's almost certainly a question you might be curious about.

 

[Enderby]

Boring loves boring

 

[ozrix84]

I'm starting to get a headache. I'm confident you guys will get to the bottom of this Brabenspiracy. See ya in another thread

 

[Kaltern]

This is all cool. But explain the public comments on franchise staffing. This is surely an area in which they could fall foul of investors amongst others. That's a major reason that theoretical talk of the franchise winding up feels overblown.

You're most likely correct. However, the fact he says that people ON that franchise want to work elsewhere, and new people are coming in, does not necessarily mean a 1:1 replacement. So that is still ambiguously vague.

What is this large group you talk about. (Is it an uncountable group of people who think like you? )

The sarcastic cute wink doesn't help your case btw. Thats a very, very old forum tactic which, let's be honest, is really a bit passé now...

It doesn't take much to read many forums, blogs and comments on a wide variety of other websites to show the feelings for the game. I don't have to actually be specific here, but I can 100% guarantee that there are more negative comments about SPECIFIC things (not 'Elite is rubbish duh' - they're not helpful.), than there are positives about the same things.

Sure player counts aren't really verifiable our end. We can see trends in the flawed metrics we have, look at signs like continued new sign ups asking for info or discussing the game (of which there are still plenty of anecdotals). I'd say, for what it's worth, that the signs in those areas don't contradict the claim that that uptake and playerbase are healthy, even if they can't confirm it etc. IE there doesn't seem to be a shocking downward trend in either. (I too would love to see hard stats though )

You cannot solely use positive stats to solidify your argument that the playerbase is healthy. As was mentioned somewhere else, ACTIVE players make a playerbase healthy - not new signups who disappear a week later because the game 'isn't for them', or 'doesn't do what I thought', or 'is boring' etc etc. I don't really care about new signups. I care about active players. Active players are more likely to buy cosmetics, and therefore help fund the longevity of the game.

 

[Taimaru]

The "Doomers" here remind me of "Flat Earthers", lol.

Anyway, we have some great free content coming this year and we will be also be getting some paid-for content, which LEP owners will get for free. Depending on your personality and tastes you will either like or dislike some or all of the free / paid for content.

Personally, I think the future is bright and I am looking forward to the announcements, when Frontier are ready to share what's coming, and in the meantime I will enjoy ED like I have been for the last 4 years.

 

[Kaltern]

Convinced for what?

You know CEO publicly represents company? And there are shareholders who act on information in this interview? And he doesn't represent it right, and they find out he has been massaging texts...he is in trouble.

Yes, it is not 'truth', it is just opinion and claim, but it has to check out, both financially and legally. it is simple as that.

Also what's this obsession with player numbers? Most of companies DO NOT publicise such numbers, because information can be taken out of context. What's active numbers means for ED? How many log in in a day? Week? Two weeks? Month?

How many times FD have to say game is doing great for you to believe?

If you don't believe, stay that. Don't represent something that is solely your own opinion as some kind of truth. It's not.

Strawmanning again huh.

I never once said my opinion is truth - that's YOUR tactic.

And you clearly have no clue how business and politics really work, so I'll not worry about trying to discuss this with you further.

 

[Ignition]

"Sooner than you think." ^{TM (Copyright Frontier Developments)}

HAHAHA, "winter is coming"

FD Copyright

I wonder how many players have multiple copies of the game, yeah, sales are going good...

 

[VR Golgot]

You're most likely correct. However, the fact he says that people ON that franchise want to work elsewhere, and new people are coming in, does not necessarily mean a 1:1 replacement. So that is still ambiguously vague.

Well he states that they've raised numbers in total for ED, so given the associated risks mentioned, it seems unlikely.

PS I added some more stuff to the OP re statements in their official reports which make a decline scenario unlikely.

It doesn't take much to read many forums, blogs and comments on a wide variety of other websites to show the feelings for the game. I don't have to actually be specific here, but I can 100% guarantee that there are more negative comments about SPECIFIC things (not 'Elite is rubbish duh' - they're not helpful.), than there are positives about the same things.

Yes but what can they tell us on internal staffing? On current dev work? Etc etc. On the main spread of issues that you've raised. It speaks to player dissatisfaction, sure, but isn't necessarily a bell weather of the game being in terminal decline. Online commenters are usually a tiny minority of the playerbase, and frankly anger is one of the primary things that drives people to emote online. In cases where there's new influx (who haven't had time to get jaded yet), it can seem more impactful than it really is, and indeed statistically we don't know what the big old silent majority think. (I think the heavy crit is all good, for the most part, when seeking to improve the game or hold producers to account for claims etc, but you're putting too much weight on it).

You cannot solely use positive stats to solidify your argument that the playerbase is healthy. As was mentioned somewhere else, ACTIVE players make a playerbase healthy - not new signups who disappear a week later because the game 'isn't for them', or 'doesn't do what I thought', or 'is boring' etc etc. I don't really care about new signups. I care about active players. Active players are more likely to buy cosmetics, and therefore help fund the longevity of the game.

I'm not. But there are signs of ongoing player activity for what it's worth. (And indeed, cosmetics famously rely most heavily on a very small subset of whales). I'm just saying there aren't signs like plummeting sign up or activity levels on places like Reddit etc, or other more blatant tells of a player base in steep decline etc. One of the scenarios you were positing.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

So nothing new here...

 

[True Phoenix]

Clearly ED continues to be a more than viable income stream. Adding content (with new "directions") is coming, some free, some paid for (free to LEP's). The game continues forward as always planned. Even new blood with new thoughts on progress, nice.

Sitting back, basking in the glory of it all. Ready for 5 years more. Hopefully, no space legs...

 

[NMS]

From a staff point of view as well it’s also really good too because people who have been on Elite for five or six years now might want to change and we can offer that change inside the studio. And what’s good for Elite is it brings in a lot of fresh blood and fresh ideas, which is always good for a game. It keeps it alive and keeps it positive. The plan was – beyond the current season for Elite, which is mostly announced – there are a lot of things that we will be announcing that are really exciting, some of which will be free, some of which will be paid. So it’s that quite healthy mix that is very good for the studio and is really good for the game.

Finally they are opening their eyes. Better late than never.[yesnod]

 

[maboleth]

You know, one guy said it beautifully on a Steam review.

I bought a lifetime pass and invested over 100 pounds on this, but instead of funding the game, I funded Frontier Dev. business.

And that line nails the whole experience. Last new content was released in 2015! Incremental patches are laughably small and sporadic. Usually go up to x.x.5 version and then die.

And Braben is more of a dreamer than a guy we can count on. Elite won't die, but it won't suddenly develop into massively deep game either. With all the misses, half baked efforts and lost opportunities, I doubt the current team could pull off anything dramatically better. It needs massive funding too, something that's not evident here.

Compared to Planet coaster (released in Q4 2016) that has 7 DLCs already, ED of 2014 has - ONE. That tells you where the money is and why Jurassic Park is also a theme park and not a space simulation.

 

[M00ka]

This thread is a perfect example of why FD don't tell us anything. Here we have an extract of an article, an interview with the CEO no less, and what happens in the forums? Some people extrapolate and misinterpret what is said just to prove their own agenda, whether that agenda is the game is healthy or that DB is the spawn of the devil. It is truly remarkable how just supposedly mature people can read the same sentence yet get such conflicting interpretations is utterly mind blowing.

 

[Vedmo]

You know, one guy said it beautifully on a Steam review.

I bought a lifetime pass and invested over 100 pounds on this, but instead of funding the game, I funded Frontier Dev. business.

And that line nails the whole experience. Last new content was released in 2015! Incremental patches are laughably small and sporadic. Usually go up to x.x.5 version and then die.

And Braben is more of a dreamer than a guy we can count on. Elite won't die, but it won't suddenly develop into massively deep game either. With all the misses, half baked efforts and lost opportunities, I doubt the current team could pull off anything dramatically better. It needs massive funding too, something that's not evident here.

Compared to Planet coaster (released in Q4 2016) that has 7 DLCs already, ED of 2014 has - ONE.

That's odd. I bought the game in 2017 and have already gotten new content, and free of charge to boot!

 

[Gun Star]

This thread is a perfect example of why FD don't tell us anything. Here we have an extract of an article, an interview with the CEO no less, and what happens in the forums? Some people extrapolate and misinterpret what is said just to prove their own agenda, whether that agenda is the game is healthy or that DB is the spawn of the devil. It is truly remarkable how just supposedly mature people can read the same sentence yet get such conflicting interpretations is utterly mind blowing.

 

[WR3ND]

As long as the paid content isn't ships and SRV variants.

LEP owners deserve more for their commitment.

Yeah, I paid for additional expansions/seasons. No salt yet; just waiting to see what will come.

...

Well, actually, according to the terms of sale, I also paid for bonus content such as access to ships and whatnot, but you get my point... Naturally, the main point in getting a "Lifetime Expansion Pass" (which it was termed when I bought into it for an additional 180 USD, +135 USD over the pre-order price of Horizons at the time) is to get additional "premium" expansions (or their equivalent) at some point in the future beyond Horizons.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Compared to Planet coaster (released in Q4 2016) that has 7 DLCs already, ED of 2014 has - ONE. That tells you where the money is and why Jurassic Park is also a theme park and not a space simulation.

Thats just inane. Every part of Horizons and Beyond is comparable, or much more, than those small PC dlc. They are just a few more buildings, typically.