Delivery missions to outposts require far too much cargo space.

[askavir]

90% of the delivery missions into outposts currently require either 120 or 180 cargo space. This is very uncool. Now why is this an issue you may ask? The answer is coming right after this commercial break.

Let's look at the cargo space of the ships that are able to land on outposts, after equiped with cargo racks on all slots + the smallest possible shield:

284 tons - Python
220 tons - Krait
148 tons - Federal Dropship
136 tons - Federal Gunship
120 tons - Asp Explorer
104 tons - Chieftain
104 tons - Type-6
88 tons - Keelback
88 tons - Challenger
80 tons - Federal Assault Ship
80 tons - Cobra MK IV
74 tons - Dolphin
64 tons - Asp Scout
54 tons - Fer-de-Lance
48 tons - Diamondback Explorer
44 tons - Cobra MK III
42 tons - Viper MK IV
40 tons - Vulture
26 tons - Imperial Courier
20 tons - Hauler
18 tons - Viper MK III
18 tons - Diamondback Scout
14 tons - Eagle
14 tons - Imperial Eagle
10 tons - Sidewinder

So from there we can observe that:

- Out of the 25 outpost capable ships, even after stuffing them chock full of cargo racks and paper thin shields only, only 2 ships can do all these missions: Python, Krait
- Only one ship can do all these missions and still pick up more than one at a time: Python (can pickup 2)
- Only 5 ships can do half these missions: Python, Krait, Federal Dropship, Federal Gunship, Asp Explorer
- None of the dedicated medium pad haulers can do cargo delivery missions. Yep, that's right.

Given that outposts were supposed to be one of the major upsides of small + medium ship, this seems way beyond unbalanced. The normal outpost mission cargo amounts should be cut in half, at least.

 

[shevek]

What's your trade rank and faction status with the people offering the mission?

 

[askavir]

What's your trade rank and faction status with the people offering the mission?

Elite rank and allied status.

This is not a casual observation, I've been all across the bubble, with several factions where I have good standing, across different economy types and states. Everywhere I've been, the vast majority of outpost delivery missions (both to and from) require cargo space amounts that are not even possible for the vast majority of outpost capable ships, including the medium haulers.

 

[Bacalao]

It's been this way for ages (no justification, still unacceptable) and it always bothered me. At least now we have the Krait. Love the Python's capabilities, hate the cockpit so I couldn't stand to fly it, basically shut me out of outpost delivery missions since a good half of them are over 150T.

Comes down (IMO of course) to there just not being enough missions. Why would there be only a few to choose from (12 or less), can't the board generate 100, 500 missions of all requirements and sizes and shapes and ranks and distances so we can have choice? OR can we not apply the cargo depot to all cargo missions, why must it be exclusive to wing missions?

 

[Priestly Ben]

What's your trade rank and faction status with the people offering the mission?

Hi...
The OP is 100% correct... I'm triple elite and allied with 5 factions in one particular system that gives me very good missions. However, like the OP says, I can only use my python for the medium pad missions due to the ridiculous amount (180t & 120t) you need to haul for the 'elite' missions!
They increased the amount 10fold to 'fix' the so called 'Robigo' and other long haul missions (e.g. Ceos, Sothis, Fehu etc...) problem, probably not realising their 'fix' would have such a detrimental effect galaxy wide...

 

[shevek]

Hi...
The OP is 100% correct... I'm triple elite and allied with 5 factions in one particular system that gives me very good missions. However, like the OP says, I can only use my python for the medium pad missions due to the ridiculous amount (180t & 120t) you need to haul for the 'elite' missions!
They increased the amount 10fold to 'fix' the so called 'Robigo' and other long haul missions (e.g. Ceos, Sothis, Fehu etc...) problem, probably not realising their 'fix' would have such a detrimental effect galaxy wide...

I'm all for more choice in mission selection, but if i'm trade elite i'd choose the 120 ton missions for 5-8 million over a 11 ton mission for peanuts.

I'd rather more missions that suit my rank to having a board that filled with penniless rank missions.

 

[Capt. Hook]

Not all missions require 180t space...

That said should be option to accept the mission and carry in instalments, the same way you can when doing fetch missions

 

[Vasious]

What's your trade rank and faction status with the people offering the mission?

Elite rank and allied status.

This is not a casual observation, I've been all across the bubble, with several factions where I have good standing, across different economy types and states. Everywhere I've been, the vast majority of outpost delivery missions (both to and from) require cargo space amounts that are not even possible for the vast majority of outpost capable ships, including the medium haulers.

There in lies the Problem

With your Rank and Rep the quantities that the mission requires bet it Fetch, Carry, Kill etc increases to justify the increased awards.

So when one is a New Pilot in a Sidewinder working for a faction that is cordial at best, they offer "low" pay low quantity missions.
but as they limit you more and your rank increase they star offering missions needing higher quantities for higher pay, but ceasing to offer the "low" pay low quantity missions, and if your ship doesn't increase to match, you cease having an employer.

It seems once you have made a name for yourself, no one offers you missions to carry or collect the small contract urgent cargo missions, even if that is how you repped up with the faction to begin with.

I have noticed this when I reach Allied with a faction but then accidentally take a few missions, then life gets in the way, and I get a whole heap of mission failed, and lose rep, and suddenly the mission sizes shrink down to Small ship capable requests again, until I build my rep up again.

Best example is Deep space Salvage missions which as for 1 canister if neutral, 2 if cordial, 3 items if friendly and 4 is allied


Note that Passenger missions do not suffer this issue and you will still get 2 Berth economy Cabin contracts if Allied and high rank with the faction.


Seems regular missions seems to go with tiered missions sizes and rewards where as Passenger missions just expand the range of missions

 

[Dommarraa]

Yeah, but of all the mountainous pile of mission board , it's probably the least irritating (or not in the top ten)

 

[Para Handy]

Is this just another "make the T7 a medium-pad ship" thread in disguise?


(Please stop complaining about my Python-special missions. )

 

[Jmanis]

I was under the impression all Cargo-delivery missions were meant to act like Wing cargo missions now (take goods to/from a cargo depot rather than get them all at once)... but I just went into the game to try this and it didn't do it. That'd be the most sensible fix though (for source missions too)

Maybe it's only mining missions FD did that for.

EDIT: Also... it's always been a bit weird the way rep works for missions. Lower rep missions, while paying less, are also easier. Depending on your objective, high rank can be a mixed blessing. E.g Salvage missions, if you're Neutral, only require 1 item... cordial 2, friendly 3, allied 4.

 

[mistohise]

It's because the python is best ship and you should have one.

 

[Para Handy]

....... Why would there be only a few to choose from (12 or less), .......

I think you will find that the mission board carries 75 missions (might have the number wrong).

What is messing with your available missions (apart from minor-faction state conditions) is the stupidly large number of wing missions on boards.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Playing devil's advocate here: If you halved the tonnage, people would still use the Python and stack 4 missions. That would be fun, that would be profit. We can't have that, so FD would promptly swing the hammer and overnerf by reducing the mission payouts to 1/4 of what we have now.

FD screwed up royally when they removed the rank-lock on missions. I understand it from the past view, when missionboards were sparsely populated and rank-lock could mean that you might get no missions for your rank at all. But the number of missions have increased since. Yet FD are still fighting the eternal unwinnable battle of balancing the open to all missions so that low ranks don't earn too much and high ranks not too little.

Bring back rank lock and give the missions proper risks and rewards for the ranks. But knowing FD that won't happen. They'll rather continue the unwinnable battle, as seen in the recent rebalance of wing assassination missions.

 

[Riverside]

You can now complete these missions in multiple trips (as with wing missions) but not yet take them without the required cargo space. Hopefully this will change in line with their winged equivalents.

I agree more small ships should have a use here, but I regularly do fetch missions with numbers of 27, 63 etc so there is some use for them already.

Related Suggestion

 

[Stealthie]

Don't really see the problem, here.

Basically, the game is saying "Here's a bunch of missions and you can do the ones that are appropriate to your level of investment".

If you're flying a Hauler, maybe you can do a few of them.
If you're flying an AspX you can do more of them.
If you're flying a Python you can do all of them.

Also, I don't really understand the whole "But, I can't take on a bunch of missions at the same time" thing either.
What makes you think you should always be able to take on more than one mission at a time?
If your ship doesn't have space for more than one cargo at a time, that's your lot.

 

[Vasious]

Don't really see the problem, here.

Basically, the game is saying "Here's a bunch of missions and you can do the ones that are appropriate to your level of investment".

If you're flying a Hauler, maybe you can do a few of them.
If you're flying an AspX you can do more of them.
If you're flying a Python you can do all of them.

Also, I don't really understand the whole "But, I can't take on a bunch of missions at the same time" thing either.
What makes you think you should always be able to take on more than one mission at a time?
If your ship doesn't have space for more than one cargo at a time, that's your lot.

Issue arrises when you become Allied and they cease offering missions for ships like the Asp and Hauler.

 

[askavir]

Don't really see the problem, here.

Basically, the game is saying "Here's a bunch of missions and you can do the ones that are appropriate to your level of investment".

And why should my rank determine that I can now use less ships? So by getting more rank, I get stuck with less options? "Congratulations for becoming Elite, we are now rewarding you by dooming you to use only a Python forever."

If you're flying a Hauler, maybe you can do a few of them.
If you're flying an AspX you can do more of them.
If you're flying a Python you can do all of them.

The issue is that neither the Hauler or the AspX can take 120 or 180 ton missions, which make for the vast majority of available delivery missions in the board.

Also, I don't really understand the whole "But, I can't take on a bunch of missions at the same time" thing either.
What makes you think you should always be able to take on more than one mission at a time?
If your ship doesn't have space for more than one cargo at a time, that's your lot.

For the same reason why UPS neves take a single package at a time.

Anyway, the main issue is not being able to take more than one at a time, it's that the vast majority of outpost capable ships not being able to take any at all, not even the medium pad dedicated haulers.

Maybe you could see the irony in the dedicated medium pad cargo ships not being able to do cargo missions into medium pad outpost?

 

[Bigmaec]

Make iClipper and T7 M pad.
Solved

 

[Leo Sagan]

Given that outposts were supposed to be one of the major upsides of small + medium ship, this seems way beyond unbalanced. The normal outpost mission cargo amounts should be cut in half, at least.

After all this time askavir, still trying to get some sensible balancing from FD ? You should know better by now

(+rep obviously, but I wouldn't hold my breath ...)