"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

I don't see many ways (that are not ugly and un-fun) to actually get the useful outputs we need now. With the skittles economies like this we're forced to shoot our feet to get the stats required to make the systems function well. I was hoping it would not be so devastating but it is. Even very weak influences just erradicate products.

I have a real strange situation where my orbital outpost refinery with 1 strong link to surface refinery has polymers, insulating membrane, copper gold and silver. The Coriolis refinery with 1 strong refinery link over rocky world with volcanisim had no copper (or any of those others except silver) and about 110K 'demand' for copper. Okay I think, might be hidden industrial from the volcanos so I add another refinery to see if I can out produce the hole. Now, get this, copper demand is 220K. So building more capacity digs your supply problem into a deeper hole?

Really weak links should have been limited to the planetary system only (or slots in stellar orbit). So say 4 and 4a-4d have the strong and weak link stuff going on so there you focus on refinery and perhaps a some other non-destructive economy. 3 and 3a to 3c have no links into system 4 and focus on being Agricultural. Any planet override is in fact overridden once 3 strong links are created. This would give you some way to control development as well as meet the system stat goals with perhaps a few trade-offs.

Now... It's like mixing markers. Everyone is going to get some shade of brown.
 
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Now, get this, copper demand is 220K. So building more capacity digs your supply problem into a deeper hole?
Possibly two things going on here:
1) Refinery hubs are +7 development level, which will significantly increase both supply and demand. So you might have a better ratio but the difference still increases in absolute terms.
2) The seed for the market specialisation appears to be affected by development level, so with demand having an 8x range to vary over, it might just be an unlucky reroll (which means, building something apparently unrelated elsewhere might decrease the demand again)
 
Wow cool!
To contribute: I made a Commercial Outpost over a water world (with carbon-water-based life!) and got Tourism 1.40, Agriculture 1.00. I don't know if that's the value for all water worlds, or if the mention of life boosted the Tourism.
Then I built a second Commercial Outpost over the water world. It is also Tourism 1.40, Agriculture 1.00 of course. The main Outpost now has two strong links, 1 Agriculture and 1 Tourism, and its totals are now Tourism 2.20, Agriculture 1.40

So the links from the new Outpost were worth .80 Tourism and .40 Agriculture, I guess. The system doesn't have black holes or anything, but the patch notes say Tourism links are boosted by orbiting a water world. And by "On or orbiting a body with organics" but I don't know if that only means organic signals on landables, or if it counts the organics described in (some?) water worlds and gas giants.

...I'm so lost on the basics of how this work...
Why exactly is that Tourism strong link giving .80? I presume that's a 0.40 base, doubled because it's orbiting a water world. If I built a T2 Tourism Installation (Space Bar), would its strong link give 0.80 base doubled to 1.60?

(I'm using this system to test things but I guess it's a decent agriculture exporter for having no landables)

Edit: I'm most interested in sending a bunch of links into a planetary port which will then (I'm reading?) "pass along" those links to an orbiting port! But I am completely lost on what numbers to expect, there, so I'm trying to understand this much simpler scenario first.
This is still just a hypothesis, but a pattern like this is possible for your main outpost if your water planet is terraformable:

P.S. I realized this doesn't explain why the first outpost got Agriculture 1.0 and Tourism 1.4.
Agriculture1.4
1Override (Water world)
0.4Terraformable
-0.4Tidally locked
0.4T1 Strong link from 2nd outpost
Tourism2.2
1Override (Water world)
0.4Orbiting a water world
0.4Orbiting a body with geologicals
0.4T1 Strong link from 2nd outpost
 
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So, relevant question... how do Industrial + HighTech and Agriculture + Extraction + Terraforming afffect each other? I'm currently in the process of building a High Tech economy on an icy planet that'll give me an Industrial override, and have a HMC w/biologicals in the system I was considering building a station around.
 
I don't see many ways (that are not ugly and un-fun) to actually get the useful outputs we need now. With the skittles economies like this we're forced to shoot our feet to get the stats required to make the systems function well. I was hoping it would not be so devastating but it is. Even very weak influences just erradicate products.

I have a real strange situation where my orbital outpost refinery with 1 strong link to surface refinery has polymers, insulating membrane, copper gold and silver. The Coriolis refinery with 1 strong refinery link over rocky world with volcanisim had no copper (or any of those others except silver) and about 110K 'demand' for copper. Okay I think, might be hidden industrial from the volcanos so I add another refinery to see if I can out produce the hole. Now, get this, copper demand is 220K. So building more capacity digs your supply problem into a deeper hole?

Really weak links should have been limited to the planetary system only (or slots in stellar orbit). So say 4 and 4a-4d have the strong and weak link stuff going on so there you focus on refinery and perhaps a some other non-destructive economy. 3 and 3a to 3c have no links into system 4 and focus on being Agricultural. Any planet override is in fact overridden once 3 strong links are created. This would give you some way to control development as well as meet the system stat goals with perhaps a few trade-offs.

Now... It's like mixing markers. Everyone is going to get some shade of brown.
It seems we're throwing material sacrifices into the volcanoes. I was hoping that the influences from planets, stars and similar attributes would be on the supply side only, but it seems demand is included as well.

Anyone got a block of cheese to sacrifice to the Volcano God?
 
Industrial + HighTech and Agriculture + Extraction + Terraforming
Ind and HT consume a lot of each other's "generic" outputs, but they also produce a lot of outputs for other economies, which should be unaffected. Should have similar demand for most products to either single-type economy of the same size.

Ag+Ex+Terraforming:
- terraforming produces nothing much
- agriculture produces things the other two consume
- extraction produces things the other two don't consume
...so you'll end up with something extraction-ish on the export side, with a few common foods added in - and then on the import side it'll probably be pretty strong on all "generic" imports, plus all the specifics, but maybe a bit weak on foods.

I was hoping that the influences from planets, stars and similar attributes would be on the supply side only, but it seems demand is included as well.
A station which supplies everything and demands nothing isn't all that useful either - you couldn't trade into it or get good cargo-based missions from it.
 
Ind and HT consume a lot of each other's "generic" outputs, but they also produce a lot of outputs for other economies, which should be unaffected. Should have similar demand for most products to either single-type economy of the same size.

Ag+Ex+Terraforming:
- terraforming produces nothing much
- agriculture produces things the other two consume
- extraction produces things the other two don't consume
...so you'll end up with something extraction-ish on the export side, with a few common foods added in - and then on the import side it'll probably be pretty strong on all "generic" imports, plus all the specifics, but maybe a bit weak on foods.


A station which supplies everything and demands nothing isn't all that useful either - you couldn't trade into it or get good cargo-based missions from it.
Good to know. More specifically for the Ind and HT economy, will the stuff you need for colonisation supplies from either be eaten?
 
I can only echo what I’ve said before and others have. Planet economies would be good (or better) if they worked like the original Colony concept (ignoring the issues of picking markets up) and could be overridden by a different specialization, and/or only applied the aspect which actually works into that specialization. I’d be saying this even if I didn’t have a refinery that was destroyed almost beyond use (I got lucky enough to have steel and titanium production remaining while I don’t finish any ongoing builds in system) by the arbitrary industry slapped on by some lava spouts on the surface.

Because it does the exact opposite of introducing “the ability to build many more varied economies”. Weak links I’m 50/50 on since in theory a dedicated economy should always have enough supply for the bulk goods to continue existing, but then they’re also somewhat pointless when ports get an economy right away no matter what. Realistic as “using in-system production to support local facilities”? Yes. Interesting to the player as a mechanic? Not when they’re applied nilly-willy instead of supporting a dedicated station’s economy…

Of course, I should probably be telling this and some other things to Frontier in the actual feedback thread than to rant away here. Anyway.

What risk am I running if a (non-terraformable) planet gets terraforming influence by a below bio signal when my plan is to build a refinery? I can see it should leave the metals alone (unless I found something inaccurate re steel, aluminium and titanium) but that was as much energy as I had to dig around the internet for the info.
 
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Good to know. More specifically for the Ind and HT economy, will the stuff you need for colonisation supplies from either be eaten?
Yes, probably quite a few. Evacuation Shelter and Computer Components I think are very likely to go and then there's a whole bunch of the others which are more likely than not to stay exported individually but you probably won't keep all of them at once.

What risk am I running if a (non-terraformable) planet gets terraforming influence by a below bio signal when my plan is to build a refinery? I can see it should leave the metals alone (unless I found something inaccurate re steel, aluminium and titanium) but that was as much energy as I had to dig around the internet for the info.
Polymers, Semiconductors and Superconductors are consumed by Terraforming specifically.

Gold and Silver are consumed by most economies and that includes Terraforming.
 
Polymers, Semiconductors and Superconductors are consumed by Terraforming specifically.
Right… so a chance that I might not get them on such a build* but it could potentially be overcome if the economy is strong enough (planet has 5 build slots where I could put hubs down plus a second planet with another 5 slots, though I’ll likely add planetary ports to one or both at some point). Thanks. [I care little for the gold and silver to trade with]

*At least the semi and superconductors managed to survive the industry nuke which my current build suffered so if terraforming isn’t as strong of a planetary influence it could be fine. If not, they are not really one of the bulk goods anyway. Polymers… I’d like to hope.
 
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Right… so a chance that I might not get them on such a build* but it could potentially be overcome if the economy is strong enough (planet has 5 build slots where I could put hubs down plus a second planet with another 5 slots, though I’ll likely add planetary ports to one or both at some point). Thanks. [I care little for the gold and silver to trade with]

*At least the semi and superconductors managed to survive the industry nuke which my current build suffered so if terraforming isn’t as strong of a planetary influence it could be fine. If not, they are not really one of the bulk goods anyway. Polymers… I’d like to hope.
I would check the demand for the goods that you want to have in supply, build one refinery and then check the demand again. That should give you some indication if it's possible to overcome the non-refinery influences with the slots you have available on your planet.
 
I would check the demand for the goods that you want to have in supply, build one refinery and then check the demand again. That should give you some indication if it's possible to overcome the non-refinery influences with the slots you have available on your planet.
Well first I’ve got to finish the primary Coriolis station of that system. Why not an outpost, because planet 1 only has that single orbital slot designated for the primary. And it would be actually more hauling to start an outpost, build two T1 structures and then add the Coriolis, too.
 
I have three water worlds in my tableau. I'm thinking fish might be the only thing I make...
Same thing here, though all in separate systems. One of them has an Orbis (a system I plan to build up as a "large" one over a longer period so started it with a T3, and which I probably should get the Panther Clipper II for... maybe not with ARX though), the other two outposts. Annoyingly it's the Orbis which is not producing fruit and vegetables thanks to the tourism economy application, but not much I can do there for now.

... technically five water worlds but the one which I claimed in Gliese 2157 is not terraformable and has a comparatively lower population at 176,030 (it started with around 5,000 the day following the outpost's completion, last week I believe). Also no planetary build slots, so I'm yet to decide what exactly I'll do with it. Number five didn't even get the primary above it in an otherwise relatively unremarkable system.
 
I’d be saying this even if I didn’t have a refinery that was destroyed almost beyond use (I got lucky enough to have steel and titanium production remaining while I don’t finish any ongoing builds in system) by the arbitrary industry slapped on by some lava spouts on the surface.
I still think features should simply be a bonus to certain economy types rather than a flat addition. Having volcanism on a planet should give like a .5x bonus to each of Extraction, Industry, and Refinery. That way if you just want refinery and only build refinery hubs, the planetary features still matter (which I think is a good mechanic in theory) but in a way you want them to.
 
That way if you just want refinery and only build refinery hubs, the planetary features still matter (which I think is a good mechanic in theory) but in a way you want them to.
That's kind of what I am suggesting but more of "If X is present, only X of the planetary XYZ features" triggers, instead of continuing to have industrial and extraction present with a bunch of refinery hubs placed. This would also allow ice planet systems to still be used for refineries if it is desired or needed by the player.

I don't have much of an opinion on whether the planetary modifiers should be a flat value or modifier. I simply want for them to be less intrusive than they are now.
 
Yes, probably quite a few. Evacuation Shelter and Computer Components I think are very likely to go and then there's a whole bunch of the others which are more likely than not to stay exported individually but you probably won't keep all of them at once.


Polymers, Semiconductors and Superconductors are consumed by Terraforming specifically.

Gold and Silver are consumed by most economies and that includes Terraforming.
I think my hopes lie with a t8 now. So just use the economy specific outposts with population and development elsewhere in the system to get a good supply. Then a refinery in a different system, just focused on it.
 
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