"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

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Frank Wraith said:
What facilities did you add? And how much is the +50%?
Because security building may add other stats and also add population, those other stats will improve the market already. Because from my previous message, I could say I went from Sec -2 to -6 and the market export probably increased by 400%from the screenshots :p
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The change from -4 to +5 SEC came from the construction of a Relay and Security station. So apart from the chance in SEC that is a trivial increase in POP, and a change in DEV from 18 to 21 and finally a chance in SoL from 2 to 5.

Mind you, I have previously raised SoL from -6 to +2 without seeing dramatic results.

The 50% change is mostly across the board, for example Hydrogen Fuel went from 2200 to 3300 and so on.

Seems to me that raising SEC has so far been the biggest boost for my production along with +POP settlements/orbitals.

Is it incremental? Or tied to having negative or positive SEC? Or a multiplier of anarchy/low/middle/high SEC? Personally I would find it problematic if high SEC systems are plain "better" for production even though it might make "sense".
 

Tyrrel

T
Ian Doncaster said:
It might instead be that which did it - there does seem to be some evidence that DEV has a substantial effect compared with the others on market production levels.
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It's likely a mix of both, it does stand to reason that having a high amount of piracy in your system would negatively impact system-wide economy. 3 levels in DEV should, by what I've found so far, do around +20% to economy supply.

One of the participants in my mini-bubble experiment is working to get his system out of Anarchy, I'll have confirmation of this soon.
 

Frank Wraith

F
I was also thinking about the Dev level, because if security had a real impact that would force players to build high security systems all the time... Or maybe just having a positive security (while staying in Low Security) would be enough to not trigger a penalty on the market.
The Refinery Hub with the Sec -1 but Tech+3, Wealth+5, Dev+7 has given a really big increase. We also don't know if there is a diminishing return at some point?

A test would be to build a military settlement (S or M) as they only give Security, and same with the Surface Military Hub (Sec +10). However they will still give an increase in Pop so we would probably see an increase in the market.

Because so far in my system with 49500 pop, and my stats:
Security: -6
Tech level: 19
Wealth: 20
Standard Of Living: 36
Development Level: 27

My science outpost has a production of Hydrogen 12209t. And it has been something like: ~4900t > 6509t (+1500 Pop refinery hub) > 9405t (+1500 Pop refinery hub) > 12209t (+20000 Pop civilian planetary outpost).
I may build a military settlement at some point to have a military market available and also fix my security slider that looks broken, but for now it doesn't seem to negatively impact my markets.
 

Tyrrel

T
Update 3/23/25 pt 1
Col 359 Sector CJ-R c5-27

Notes: T1 Civilian Surface Port in progress

Last Population: 38,400
New Population: 40,500
System Stats: 9/21/17/23/15

No new system builds

No noted changes in economy
 

Tyrrel

T
Update 3/23/25 pt 2
Col 359 Sector CJ-R c5-27

T1 Civilian Surface Port has been completed. I am waiting for the daily tick to update population values on the Galaxy/System map to finalize my report. Based upon current changes to my economies, I have two strong hypothesis to share and test against.
  1. First, Population and system security, as well as all the other system stats, are applied immediately upon the completion of a build; but do not become visible until the daily tick updates that information for the galaxy/system map.

  2. Second, commodity supply/demand as well as commodity price are determined by mathematical functions taking their respective system stats (Development level and Wealth respectively,) base value and population as variables to determine the final values.
 
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Dormant account - pls delete

D
Jmanis said:
Out of interest... anyone got any idea what governs how many surface slots a body might have?

I'm building out a system that has one with 5... and it's a large-ish body with rings, 4,111km radius... thought that might be it, but a 14k km radius planet only had 4 slots.
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Maybe it works like biome... there's a... geome? Can't build a settlement on certain geologies. (Seems like you can build settlements on any old topology though, given people have put them on mountains and whatnot.)
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Tyrrel said:
  1. First, Population and system security, as well as all the other system stats, are applied immediately upon the completion of a build; but do not become visible until the daily tick updates that information for the galaxy/system map.
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I've certainly seen population updates take effect quicker than that - within ten minutes, sometimes. Construction-related updates to market supply/demand have taken place in a similar window too.

So I'd say "immediate, but the usual minutes-to-days unpredictable delay before it clears through all the layers of caching the game has going on" is most likely.

The sizes of the eco/sec state slider bands I've only seen change on-tick, though.

Tyrrel said:
  1. Second, commodity supply/demand as well as commodity price are determined by mathematical functions taking their respective system stats (Development level and Wealth respectively) and population as variables to determine the final values.
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And if so, is it as an overlay on the existing (NPC) market algorithms? - though the T1 planetary behaviour doesn't entirely fit with that.

It certainly looks like the usual political BGS state effects on supply/demand/price do apply on top of whatever's going on, at least.
 

Tyrrel

T
Edit: Nvm I was making assumptions :)
"event":"Docked", "StationName":"Kress Horizons", "StationType":"Coriolis" // Player deployed
"event":"Docked", "StationName":"Agile's Edge", "StationType":"SurfaceStation" // Player not deployed
"event":"Docked", "StationName":"Linteris Ring", "StationType":"Coriolis" // Legacy NPC
 
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Xenia_K

Xenia_K
Does anyone have experience already what happens if you put a Coriolis in Orbit of same planet which your primary port (Outpost) is tied to?
Is the market split? Is it shifted to the bigger station? does it remain with the earlier station? Or just a paralllel market with a different or even same shuffle of commodities?
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Xenia_K said:
Does anyone have experience already what happens if you put a Coriolis in Orbit of same planet which your primary port (Outpost) is tied to?
Is the market split? Is it shifted to the bigger station? does it remain with the earlier station? Or just a paralllel market with a different or even same shuffle of commodities?
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I'm going to assume it influences both equally. (Equally==the same way)
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Xenia_K said:
Does anyone have experience already what happens if you put a Coriolis in Orbit of same planet which your primary port (Outpost) is tied to?
Is the market split? Is it shifted to the bigger station? does it remain with the earlier station? Or just a paralllel market with a different or even same shuffle of commodities?
Click to expand...
It's going to depend a bit on the type of outpost, too.
- industrial, military and high-tech have an economy, but no influence, so shouldn't change the Coriolis themselves, but both should pick up on influences from the surface
- civilian and commercial have no economy or influence, so I'd expect the Coriolis to pick up whatever they picked up (but yes, it'll be very interesting to know if the influence just goes to all stations in range, or is split between them - make sure to measure the precise economy factors in the journal before and after!)
- criminal has no economy, but does have influence, so it self-influences itself to have an economy, and should also presumably affect the Coriolis
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Xenia_K said:
mate, I do a lot of things but digging through that mess of jounal-files I definetly will not. And yes I use EDDiscovery, but only for data transmission to INARA and EDSM....
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And unfortunately while the economy split is I think in the subset of journal data sent to those sites, neither does anything with it, since until this month it was only of relevance to ... well, possibly only of relevance to me, in terms of people carrying out the type of market data studies that needed it.
 

Xenia_K

Xenia_K
Ian Doncaster said:
And unfortunately while the economy split is I think in the subset of journal data sent to those sites, neither does anything with it, since until this month it was only of relevance to ... well, possibly only of relevance to me, in terms of people carrying out the type of market data studies that needed it.
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can you give an example as search query in editor?
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Sure - it's the Docked events (which you can get EDDiscovery to filter out of the giant stream of events for you)
Code: 
{ "timestamp":"2024-10-27T14:59:14Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Leibniz Hub", "StationType":"Outpost", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StarSystem":"Barann", "SystemAddress":3382521696986, "MarketID":3229405440, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"Delta Squadron", "FactionState":"Expansion" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Corporate;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Corporate", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "commodities", "contacts", "exploration", "missions", "refuel", "repair", "tuning", "engineer", "missionsgenerated", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "powerplay", "searchrescue", "stationMenu", "socialspace", "bartender", "pioneersupplies", "apexinterstellar" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Refinery;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Refinery", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Refinery;", "Name_Localised":"Refinery", "Proportion":0.760000 }, { "Name":"$economy_Extraction;", "Name_Localised":"Extraction", "Proportion":0.240000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":33.407642, "LandingPads":{ "Small":2, "Medium":1, "Large":0 } }
and then within that it's the StationEconomies block that's the crucial one
Code: 
"StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Refinery;", "Name_Localised":"Refinery", "Proportion":0.760000 }, { "Name":"$economy_Extraction;", "Name_Localised":"Extraction", "Proportion":0.240000 } ]
So this station is 0.76 Refineries and 0.24 Extractions
(like almost all NPC stations, it happens to add up to 1.0, but that's not true of colonisation stations and the name "Proportion" is misleading)

If your editor can handle regular expression searches
Code: 
StationEconomies":\[[{}":A-Za-z0-9. $_;,]+\]
will highlight the blocks for you
 
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