@Greasetrap42 it looks even better than I expected. The planet 10K LS from the main sun has 5 planetary sites & 4 orbitals. The second sun is 309K LS from the first. If you were to set this system up as a testbed for the "infinite" orbitals around the asteroids how would you do it?
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
- Start date
So my new data point which may not be new here:
Built initial outpost and location was generated above a moon with only one orbital slot and ground slot. I made the outpost civilian creating our now beloved colony economy. Then built a surface refinery hub. That added maybe ~1K population and move the station economy to .50 refinery / .50 colony. This will be the maximum influence possible to exert on it. So It seems like based on some other remarks I have read that the size of the station does not seem to matter here. That is the same step influence I think I saw for a Coriolis market too. I also did not get a refinery contact at the outpost yet. Maybe with the next weekly tick? The .50 refinery is working pretty well for me though. Replenishes quickly and has more than T8 stock level on Steel, Aluminum, Titanium.
I have one moon with 3 surface slots and 2 orbitals that I think will be the main refinery station. It will be a LOT of building but worth it to create a solid local metal market.
Built initial outpost and location was generated above a moon with only one orbital slot and ground slot. I made the outpost civilian creating our now beloved colony economy. Then built a surface refinery hub. That added maybe ~1K population and move the station economy to .50 refinery / .50 colony. This will be the maximum influence possible to exert on it. So It seems like based on some other remarks I have read that the size of the station does not seem to matter here. That is the same step influence I think I saw for a Coriolis market too. I also did not get a refinery contact at the outpost yet. Maybe with the next weekly tick? The .50 refinery is working pretty well for me though. Replenishes quickly and has more than T8 stock level on Steel, Aluminum, Titanium.
I have one moon with 3 surface slots and 2 orbitals that I think will be the main refinery station. It will be a LOT of building but worth it to create a solid local metal market.
both have their advantages - SoL seems to play a role in System happiness (together with Sec & wealth), where Tec-Level is important for un-locking certain services in Ports (UC, SHipyard, Vista etc.) - so You have to look at your system and decide whats currently more important for its further developement
BTW: the most effective way of getting T2 points is building small Agri-settlements (if you have some 1/2/3 slot moon you can´t use for something else), they require around 2850 to each only (AND add to SoL) - if you got three of them on a moon you even can get an Agri-Market with a civil or commercial outpost
AFAIK until now nobody did report having an Outpost and another Station in Orbit around the same body.
Therefore it is unknown if:
a) the Outpost is counted as an influencing asset
b) if the markets go into competition -> influence points from surface-assets are spilt into influence of both stations
c) both stations "ignore" each other and get the same influence points from surface assets
d) if it even is possible to put two stations in Obrit around the same body.....
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Short data point:
L agri settlement + space farm = 1.0 agri economy Coriolis.
inara.cz
L agri settlement + space farm = 1.0 agri economy Coriolis.
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From other data, no - things which were originally colony don't seem to generate influence even when converted themselves.
(On the other hand, whatever is converting the outpost should also apply at full strength to the Coriolis, so it doesn't necessarily matter)
A strong if for my refinery system as it only has two planets with build slots (planets 2 and 3 don’t despite being landable, leaving only 4 with 6 slots and 4 a with 2), and I have the moon for some industrial stuff I don’t want interfering with the refineries. While I don’t know what the effect of agricultural settlements would be on the refinery economy… not tempting it with this one.
I guess for the ends of what I’m trying to achieve neither tech level nor SoL matter that much, then, anyway. It’s just about having a refinery nearby to not need to jump to the ~90ly distant Trailblazer every time which is still convenient, but (as my alt isn’t using a carrier) a little tiresome. And the standard of living would be slightly in positive anyhow (8 points), once complete.
It's not possible to precalculate exactly what you'd get, but the principle of mixed economies for colonisation projects doesn't seem to differ for how it worked for NPCs.
A rough model (which may not be exactly what's used internally, but close enough).
- work out the baseline economic productivity of the station
- consider each economy separately, according to its "proportion" (as proportions of the baseline, not as a percentage)
- work out that economy's imports and exports as if it was a single economy of that "proportion"
- then add the economies together. Where one economy imports something that the other exports, those cancel out (there's a "dead zone" in the middle where they cancel out even if they're not exactly zero)
So for Extraction + Refinery
- none of the Refinery exports except Explosives are consumed by Extraction, so they should be safe and continue being exported in the hybrid
- a lot of the Extraction exports are consumed by Refinery, so at this point it's going to depend on whether the Extraction exports more than the Refinery imports [1]
- Gold and Silver are exported by both, so those export levels should just be added together
- most of their normal imports are going to be fine (though things like Mineral Extractors or Advanced Catalysers which are exclusive to one or the other will have lower relative import levels than things like Power Generators which both halves want)
[1] This is where it becomes impossible to calculate in advance - if you take Gallite, for example, that seems to be exported at between 5-44 per economic unit, and imported at between 10-100 per economic unit [2], and you won't be able to tell where on that range it's going to fall without building the actual station. So on average a 50-50 extraction/refinery split almost certainly won't export Gallite (though it's not completely impossible) and might not import it either (though that's certainly possible). But a 20-80 extraction/refinery split, on the other hand, definitely won't be exporting Gallite, but has a good chance of importing almost as much as a pure Refinery might.
And this gets complicated further if you then have BGS states apply: in a Boom state Gallite production is increased by 80%, but Gallite consumption only increases by 40%. So you might have a station which doesn't normally produce Gallite, but does have a small bit on the market in Boom. Or you might have a station which normally consumes a small amount of Gallite, but stops doing so in Boom.
[2] Don't worry too much about what an "economic unit" is in this context - just use the proportion data to estimate how many you'll have of one relative to the other, rather than how many you have in an absolute sense.
Thank you, a very helpful description of how it all works. I had assumed (wrongly) that an extraction t2 with a refinery hub would produce metals but it seems like my info is wrong... perhaps it was extraction/industrial? I have a system with quite a few 3 ground slots so I was going to experiment with various combos. My first planet has a commercial outpost and a t2 Extraction placed. Exports certainly show in the outpost but are of little use so I was looking to have metals exported. Industrial for that?
Metals are (generally) a Refinery export, so if you want to export those refinery is really the only option.
Extraction is one of the few economies that doesn't import metals so it shouldn't harm your metal exports to have it there as well.
Industrial (and high-tech and military) import metals, so combining those with refinery is likely to result in very few exported metals.
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that makes sense... what is missing however (unless i am wrong and you would know i guess) is
having a fused extraction/refinery economy on the same site which uses some of the materials it makes should have a knock on bonus effect somewhere, and that is what i hope FD look at in future.
imo we should be encouraged to build infrastructure which is symbiotic where as from what i can tell if we choose refining we are kind of discouraged from adding in some extraction... or at the very least there is little incentive to add it.
from a profitibility point of view of a business, it would surely make sense to mine your own elements if they are on the the planet you are working on rather than import from elsewhere as would be much more efficient.
if i wanted to go industrial the same logic...... building a refinery settlement to support it should be encouraged and add some form of a boost to the industrial economy which would wont get if you dont add it over and above just relying on the BGS imports.
my hope is this gets fleshed out more with some form of extra bonuses added for systems which support each other.
That's my read on it too - currently it seems to me like focussing on one aspect per body might not be a bad option (and what I was planning to try) so that if you add more symbiotic aspects you get supply and demand going within the system.
More vertical integration where one body does more in one step ought as you say to be more efficient!
mate, that will not be possible.
First of all, you Astro Base is not orbiting a body where you could build something, and secondly, an Astro-Base has a pre-set Economy which is Extraction. Similar to Outposts (Science, Industrial, Military, Pirate) - those don´t change their Eco as well....
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If you're thinking in terms of specific supply chains - at a much higher level of detail than exist in ED - there's nothing all that special about extraction in this context.
A refinery economy imports:
- basically all extraction exports
- basically all agricultural exports
- almost all industrial exports
- a significant fraction of high-tech exports
(Extraction and Agricultural do have the advantage in this specific context that they won't just start consuming almost all the Refinery's exports, if they're the things you actually want)
If you're thinking in terms of generally boosting the system, then any construction will be adding to some of Development Level, Wealth, etc. which do provide various bonuses to productivity, and a mixed economy (across the different planets) is a much more efficient way of boosting those variables quickly than trying to get the entire boost from a single station type.
Though with the travel time between any two facilities in the same system generally being about ten minutes, the efficiency gain from that sort of co-location is probably minimal. "Same system" does get you benefits through the system variables.
(And also, you then conclude that the real most efficient thing to do is to co-locate all five production economies on the same site, and put those scruffy CMDRs charging massively inflated prices for ten minutes hauling out of business)
All economic influence only applies to the same body (the refinery hub is a surface construction, so will affect anything else built on the same planet, or directly orbiting that planet). The only way you'd be able to get one affecting an asteroid station is if it were orbiting a ringed landable planet.
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Coriolis complete. Reads as having a full refinery economy right away, even though I built one of the two hubs after the weekly tick, decent quantities of stuff available, consider me a happy customer.
Now to get to my Orbis again... (knowing what to build how and where has been useful from this thread)
Now to get to my Orbis again... (knowing what to build how and where has been useful from this thread)
There is info out there they can change but its not worth it.
Am I going to have to learn the velocity theory of money again?
No. The refinery market influence is local. It will not add metals to the asteroid base if placed on any other “body” than the one the asteroid base orbits. It appears you had one such slot but have a Coriolis station there.