"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[hutandrei]

It appear all I had to do was to change the system map Architect View to Map view, and the back to Architect View and the newly constructed military settlements finally appeared.
I did check the Orbis market to see what happened after I added all this extra military, and it turns out that the supply of Liquor, Narcotics and Basic Medicines is a bit lower than before. Go figure

 

[Kzak]

My t3 has only 3 things so it better be a bug!

Ok so if I want to produce CMMs I need a landable surface market, AND I need a refinery hub, AND I need an extraction item and a industrial? The extraction and industrial can't be elsewhere in the system?

Because if I want CMMs then I need a 4 seat planet at minimum? And then it's only refinery 0.25% Industrial; 25% and Extraction 25%?

Why can't my T3 ground station work, then I'd know how well a 3 refinery hub can server a ground port market...

The jury is still out the mixed economies. But from my own experience, with a T2 industrial settlement and 4 refinery hubs, the orbiting Coriolis' market is missing important construction materials that do show up in similar settlements that do not have the industrial settlement on the same planet. Pure economies as for refineries seem to be the way to go.

I'm still waiting for my T1 civilian surface port to get a market going, it's completely empty at the moment. Maybe tomorrow after the server tick?

 

[MoridinUK]

So can I ask for some general guidance.

If I want the orbital market to have a lot of stuff produced by a particular econ, do I only focus on build only that econ on the planet or should I mix it up?

So if I want a lot of good High Tech stuff, do I need high tech econ influence, + refinery + Industrial?
Or is it better to build those on different in system planets?

Or do we not know yet?

 

[MoridinUK]

The jury is still out the mixed economies. But from my own experience, with a T2 industrial settlement and 4 refinery hubs, the orbiting Coriolis' market is missing important construction materials that do show up in similar settlements that do not have the industrial settlement on the same planet. Pure economies as for refineries seem to be the way to go.

I'm still waiting for my T1 civilian surface port to get a market going, it's completely empty at the moment. Maybe tomorrow after the server tick?

Thank you! Right but other economies we will want to mix it up?

We can land at the large settlements can't we?

 

[Kzak]

Thank you! Right but other economies we will want to mix it up?

We can land at the large settlements can't we?

T2 settlements have large pads, so should be landable, yes. But they, too, seem afflicted by the bug that gives them just 3 goods types to sell.

Agriculture seems to be one economy type that can more easily be mixed with extraction/industrial/high-tech from the findings in this thread.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Ok so if I want to produce CMMs I need a landable surface market, AND I need a refinery hub,

Yes

AND I need an extraction item and a industrial? The extraction and industrial can't be elsewhere in the system?

Definitely not. This seems to have come out as a recipe somewhere through sheer luck and is getting repeated a lot, but it's generally a bad idea (especially the Industrial [1])

You want two Refineries and the surface port as a minimum - the surface port to be the market, and the two refinery hubs to convert it.
If you have room for extra Refinery hubs, go ahead and add them to increase output further, but it's not necessary.

(Extraction and Industrial elsewhere in the system to boost wealth and development level further? Sure, go ahead)


[1] Industrial Odyssey settlements can sometimes themselves produce CMM Composites as one of the things they happen to export, because Odyssey settlement economies have been a bit different to normal ones since they were introduced back in 2021. But again, safe to put some of those on different planets and see what you get from them, and whatever it is, it won't be high quantities.

So can I ask for some general guidance.

If I want the orbital market to have a lot of stuff produced by a particular econ, do I only focus on build only that econ on the planet or should I mix it up?

Yes, one economy per planet, if you're wanting to maximise production of that economy's exports.

(Mixed economies have their uses, but generally for thematic stuff, or maybe increasing variety of imports - single economies are always going to be best for exports)

 

[MoridinUK]

Great thank you!

 

[_Flin_]

What exactly is the point of civilian and outpost hub?

Interesting question. Haven't figured out yet, didn't build one, thought "what's the point of this?".

For the time being, i filed it in the same drawer as the "what is the difference between a commercial and a civilian outpost?" question.

 

[_Flin_]

The jury is still out the mixed economies. But from my own experience, with a T2 industrial settlement and 4 refinery hubs, the orbiting Coriolis' market is missing important construction materials that do show up in similar settlements that do not have the industrial settlement on the same planet. Pure economies as for refineries seem to be the way to go.

I would not subscribe to that. Not that simple. Check out CMDR Mechans "I was wrong" video about this issue.

It appears that the different economies gobble up their own demand that is produced by the corresponding economy.

So that means Extraction + Refinery = good. Agriculture + Refinery = good. Industrial/Hightech + Refinery... Not so easy. Good for the output of Ind/HT, bad for output of of Refinery metals they demand.

 

[Macros Black]

Something kicked Darkseid Vista (Coriolis under the ELW) into overdrive.

- Earlier today:
Docked, Type: Coriolis in system HIP 50874, State: None, Faction: Abyssal Legion in state Expansion
Allegiance: Federation, Economy: Colony, Government: Democracy
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Black Market, Market, Contacts, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, System Colonisation
Economies: Colony 100%

- Finished the second Space Farm under the ELW.

- This evening:
Allegiance: Federation, Economy: Tourism, Government: Democracy
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Black Market, Market, Contacts, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, System Colonisation
Economies: Tourism 115%, High Tech 115%, Agri 115%, Military 100%

I'm pleased with the result, and the fact that it is no longer merely a poop and flatulence station.

Alas, Hellboy Terminal could learn a thing or two of Darkseid...

 

[SimpiusMaximus]

Some data for all;

Orbis, no planetary facilities

{ "timestamp":"2025-03-31T05:38:22Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Watts Reach", "StationType":"SurfaceStation", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StationState":"Construction", "StarSystem":"Col 285 Sector EY-F b12-3", "SystemAddress":7265071539585, "MarketID":4230508291, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"Canonn", "FactionState":"Expansion" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Cooperative;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Cooperative", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "blackmarket", "commodities", "contacts", "exploration", "missions", "outfitting", "crewlounge", "rearm", "refuel", "repair", "shipyard", "engineer", "facilitator", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "powerplay", "searchrescue", "stationMenu", "shop", "livery", "socialspace", "vistagenomics", "registeringcolonisation" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Colony;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Colony", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Colony;", "Name_Localised":"Colony", "Proportion":1.000000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":541.421506, "LandingPads":{ "Small":10, "Medium":13, "Large":7 } }

--------------

Orbis, one Industrial Hub

{ "timestamp":"2025-04-02T05:55:26Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Watts Reach", "StationType":"SurfaceStation", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StationState":"Construction", "StarSystem":"Col 285 Sector EY-F b12-3", "SystemAddress":7265071539585, "MarketID":4230508291, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"Canonn", "FactionState":"CivilUnrest" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Cooperative;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Cooperative", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "blackmarket", "commodities", "contacts", "exploration", "missions", "outfitting", "crewlounge", "rearm", "refuel", "repair", "shipyard", "engineer", "facilitator", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "powerplay", "searchrescue", "stationMenu", "shop", "livery", "socialspace", "vistagenomics", "registeringcolonisation" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Colony;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Colony", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Colony;", "Name_Localised":"Colony", "Proportion":0.500000 }, { "Name":"$economy_Industrial;", "Name_Localised":"Industrial", "Proportion":0.500000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":535.353530, "LandingPads":{ "Small":10, "Medium":13, "Large":7 } }

Market

View attachment 424559

--------

To get points for these I built a medium settlement and a commercial outpost on another body
Then I saw that weird orbital slot bug when I placed a mining outpost in slot 1, it swapped with my commercial outpost which is now in slot 1


I am planning on build more, so will update as I go

Update:

Added a Large Industrial settlement on the body under the Orbis
, its details

{ "timestamp":"2025-04-02T19:00:56Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Bai Synthetics Workshop", "StationType":"OnFootSettlement", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StarSystem":"Col 285 Sector EY-F b12-3", "SystemAddress":7265071539585, "MarketID":4231846659, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"Canonn", "FactionState":"CivilUnrest" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Cooperative;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Cooperative", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "blackmarket", "commodities", "contacts", "missions", "rearm", "refuel", "repair", "engineer", "facilitator", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "searchrescue", "stationMenu", "colonisationcontribution", "refinery" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Industrial;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Industrial", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Industrial;", "Name_Localised":"Industrial", "Proportion":1.150000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":533.748842, "LandingPads":{ "Small":0, "Medium":0, "Large":1 } }

Orbis details becomes;

{ "timestamp":"2025-04-02T19:38:42Z", "event":"Docked", "StationName":"Watts Reach", "StationType":"SurfaceStation", "Taxi":false, "Multicrew":false, "StationState":"Construction", "StarSystem":"Col 285 Sector EY-F b12-3", "SystemAddress":7265071539585, "MarketID":4230508291, "StationFaction":{ "Name":"Canonn" }, "StationGovernment":"$government_Cooperative;", "StationGovernment_Localised":"Cooperative", "StationServices":[ "dock", "autodock", "blackmarket", "commodities", "contacts", "exploration", "missions", "outfitting", "crewlounge", "rearm", "refuel", "repair", "shipyard", "engineer", "facilitator", "flightcontroller", "stationoperations", "powerplay", "searchrescue", "stationMenu", "shop", "livery", "socialspace", "vistagenomics", "registeringcolonisation" ], "StationEconomy":"$economy_Industrial;", "StationEconomy_Localised":"Industrial", "StationEconomies":[ { "Name":"$economy_Industrial;", "Name_Localised":"Industrial", "Proportion":3.050000 } ], "DistFromStarLS":533.671071, "LandingPads":{ "Small":10, "Medium":13, "Large":7 } }

These influence values make no sense, went from 0.5 to 3.05???? Maybe with the Thursday tick it will change
Market is now nice and juiced:

 

[SimpiusMaximus]

Something kicked Darkseid Vista (Coriolis under the ELW) into overdrive.

- Earlier today:
Docked, Type: Coriolis in system HIP 50874, State: None, Faction: Abyssal Legion in state Expansion
Allegiance: Federation, Economy: Colony, Government: Democracy
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Black Market, Market, Contacts, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, System Colonisation
Economies: Colony 100%

- Finished the second Space Farm under the ELW.

- This evening:
Allegiance: Federation, Economy: Tourism, Government: Democracy
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Black Market, Market, Contacts, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, System Colonisation
Economies: Tourism 115%, High Tech 115%, Agri 115%, Military 100%

I'm pleased with the result, and the fact that it is no longer merely a poop and flatulence station.

Alas, Hellboy Terminal could learn a thing or two of Darkseid...

I suspect they are tweaking the behaviour in the background. My station also got super juiced

 

[Ian Doncaster]

So that means Extraction + Refinery = good. Agriculture + Refinery = good. Industrial/Hightech + Refinery... Not so easy. Good for the output of Ind/HT, bad for output of of Refinery metals they demand.

Extraction + Refinery = still not as good as a pure Refinery, since you're just tipping all the ores the Extraction produces into a pit and missing out on applying more Refinery influence.
Agricultural + Refinery = same issue, you'll eat all the food and output fewer metals than a pure refinery would have

Ind/HT + Refinery is certainly worse than either of those because both sides will consume as imports what the other side exports, so you might be lucky to get much of anything out of it at the end. (The few Ind/HT exports like Bioreducing Lichen, Aquaponic Systems, etc. which Refinery doesn't care about you'll still get, of course)

I suspect they are tweaking the behaviour in the background. My station also got super juiced

Yeah, those are unusually high figures - that looks like 2.0 extra influence from a single construction which might have done 0.5 before. I'll go and look around my system now and see what's happened (since I've not completed any builds recently)

EDIT: okay, no changes to any of mine yet, but I'll check again tomorrow.

 

[hutandrei]

Either that, or they are tweaking the influence of ELWs. I mean, they are probably making them give influence in a few industries by default, even without any additional assets in orbit

 

[vicwarrior]

Currently claiming Coalsack Sector JH-V c2-20 , in particular it does have a 7 slot hmc which would be perfect for these experiments, id also love to turn it into a high performing refinery. However im really fed up with hauling, and while id love to experiment with the BGS and figure out economies, i simply cannot stomach much of what fdev consider "gameplay", so the thought of hauling 100kt+ just to farm out the t2 point fodder+coriolis+t2 fodder for hubs+hubs , is rather daunting. If someone is willing to help, i will pitch in and offer the system for science, as well as try to contribute depending on how available i am.

I am quite curious to see how the whole refinery + extraction thing stacks up, is the prod boost because of a lack of extractions for imports in the entire area? Or is it just because garanteeing the refinery has some supply by having it directly on site make up for the economy % lost to extraction? If so, could agri also work to boost it? Could similar effects be obtained by also having extraction/agri in the same system, in a different body?

Thanks to the help of fellow CMDR Kolley switft progress has been made on the claim and t1 fodder needed for the coriolis, and it is now 29% ish done, moving my carrier out to resupply everything thats not the bulk metals (and whatever of those fit after loading everything).

Once ive got the coriolis built i will start taking notes of the supply as ref hubs gets built, later adding an agri market to sector completely devoid of it (not a single one in all of the coalsack sector) which hopefully will sirve to confirm/bust the myth of available stuff in trade range affecting market's supply, after that, maybe an extraction hub should no hard data on their effect on refinery markets show up (and again, finally confirm or bust that getting ores directly on site helps supply), then another refinery, to be able to compare effects on supply.

Probably something like: Coriolis-> refhub -> refhub -> activate agristack by adding 2 farms to commercial outpost -> extraction -> refinery
Will play a bit by ear afterwards, will have to listen to feedback, see the data, but probly 2 more fodders then refhubs, if results are as i expect, as i also want to see how much i can push the coriolis refinery proportion.

Anyways, any help is welcome, do feel free to drop by Coalsack Sector JH-V c2-20 to help, try to bring a carrier full of steel and titanium, if you can't , theres a nearby npc refinery, not very well stocked, but does give a way to help over here, if you dont want to haul, please undermine the local thargoid sympathising faction.
That last part wouldn't help the experiment, but id prefer to take any other faction than them, so it would make me happy.

Once the coriolis is done i will start cooking up a spreadsheet with the data, along with some math, i have a theory that what really matters is economy proportion, log(pops) and development.

Theres also an ELW in the system, so if those start doing something, we will be able to observe the effect too!

 

[Factabulous]

Just finished a Coriolis around a HMC world and it has an Extraction economy right away. Was expecting it to be a Colony as I plan to put in a Refinery Hub on the planet later (planet is empty apart from another Colony under construction - and nothing in orbit with the Coriolis. No Extraction anywhere in the system, though I do have separate Military / Agriculture / Hitech worlds).

First time I actually wanted a Colony too ...

 

[Eldritchsen]

Maybe we're starting to see signs of FDev tinkering under the hood to have a world contribute to the economy of orbitals to try and address the complaints in that vein from various people. It seems like recently from people's comments orbitals have been picking up unexpected influences and boosts from earth like worlds and now HMC too? If that's the case we may end up needing to start over on figuring out the rules and how/where best to build to achieve a desired result, especially for a pure economy rather than a hybrid.

 

[Tifu]

It seems like recently from people's comments orbitals have been picking up unexpected influences and boosts from earth like worlds and now HMC too? If that's the case we may end up needing to start over on figuring out the rules and how/where best to build to achieve a desired result, especially for a pure economy rather than a hybrid.

It does make sense to me that a colony or civilian station or outpost over a HMC would inherit an extraction economy - but I wish people were given the heads up before it happens.

 

[Tyrrel]

PSA there's a bug popping up currently where Refinery hubs (currently the one I've confirmed) are giving different (industrial) economy pressures, despite showing refinery on the nav panel.
Issue: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/74353

 

[Kira Goto]

It does make sense to me that a colony or civilian station or outpost over a HMC would inherit an extraction economy - but I wish people were given the heads up before it happens.

This makes me curious what will happen when I finish that primary Orbis in my current claim since it will be a solitary structure waiting for more to be built (I am planning to have it done in the coming days). With plans to eventually convert it to agriculture. As much as is possible with a single build slot for the water world which it orbits, anyway.