This is good news for me. So the addition of a refinery moved the extraction of the HMC toward refinery?
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
- Start date
That's not how it works... usually - if it isn't bugged - each additional economy influence building adds more of that economy to the station in the local zone.
So building a Refinery Hub usually adds 0.45 (aka 45%) to the station economies in the local zone.
The extraction economy of the stations stays the same.
Hey, DATA POINT :
i haven't put any eco modifier near my ORBIS since last maintenance
today : I just put an MEDICAL ORBITAL (HIGH TECH) next to it to activate/refresh new economy mechanics
2 REFINERY HUBS + 1 MILITARY SETTLEMENT T1 were already underneath.
Planet is ROCKY + tiny CO2 with BIOSIGNAL.
i got what i expected : Quad economies :
Thousands tons of ALU + STEEL+ COPPER + TITANUM
FRUITS and VEGETABLES
Not all of HIGH TECH goods coz only 0.45 proportion
but it's ok.
some MILITARY GOODS too
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I also decided to complete a T3 PORT (i used to temporize because of new mechanic since last thursday, but today i stepped in)
on ICI BODY + THIN ARGON with BIOSIGNAL
i got what i expected :
T3 sells nothing but got economy proportions : 1.15 INDUSTRIAL + 1.15 AGRI
i haven't put any eco modifier near my ORBIS since last maintenance
today : I just put an MEDICAL ORBITAL (HIGH TECH) next to it to activate/refresh new economy mechanics
2 REFINERY HUBS + 1 MILITARY SETTLEMENT T1 were already underneath.
Planet is ROCKY + tiny CO2 with BIOSIGNAL.
i got what i expected : Quad economies :
Thousands tons of ALU + STEEL+ COPPER + TITANUM
FRUITS and VEGETABLES
Not all of HIGH TECH goods coz only 0.45 proportion
but it's ok.some MILITARY GOODS too
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also decided to complete a T3 PORT (i used to temporize because of new mechanic since last thursday, but today i stepped in)
on ICI BODY + THIN ARGON with BIOSIGNAL
i got what i expected :
T3 sells nothing but got economy proportions : 1.15 INDUSTRIAL + 1.15 AGRI
Did a quick calculation, to overcome a conflicting planetary influence you'll need at least 3 refinery hubs.
I did that, it moved the commercial outpost in slot 3, the outpost says agricultural but sells nothing. I also have 1 small farm and 1 big farm on the planet (ice). I finished the construction of the second agri platform last. The buidings were finished before these whole planet influencing economies.
CO2 + Biosignal = Agri
Argon + Biosignal = Agri
Looks like fertilizer associated gases plus a Biosignal guarantees an agricultural influence.
We need a similar test with a planet/Moon with Helium atmo + Biosignal to see if the result is still agri.
Helium is not fertilizer related so a positive agri influence means that any gas will do as long as a biosignal is present.
It's more complicated than that, depending on what you want to produce and what economy the planet is providing.
If the planet's economy doesn't import the thing you want to export, then there's basically no change from before: you add a refinery hub getting 0.5 influence, you'll get 0.5 * (other factors) worth of exports
If the planet's economy does import the thing you want to export, then you need to build enough hubs that the export quantity outweighs the import quantity, which could be one hub (Steel has a fair chance of getting exported even at 2:1 against) or it could be tens of hubs (Thorium is probably a lost cause if even 10% of the station is the other economy)
Tens of hubs! Are many metals in the "hopeless" category?
I assume the inverse would be true as well?
My Orbis has 1.15 Refinery / 1.15 Agriculture, so would adding a refinery then result in 1.65 refinery / 1.15 agriculture with increased refinery exports but reduced food (as Refinery imports it)?
If I have an ice planet that provided 1.15 Industry to my large ground port…how many Extraction-related structures do I need to plop down in the 5 remaining planet slots before I have gold being exported?
(Industry consumes gold)
(Let’s assume that the ground port bug gets fixed)
(Industry consumes gold)
(Let’s assume that the ground port bug gets fixed)
Of freaking course. The next system I colonized and started before this change had the initial station plopped on a damn rocky/ice. Thanks FDev. I love gettIng hosed over and over again.
Do moons influence work the same as planets?
Do moons influence work the same as planets?
As far as we know, yes.
In the context of colonization we care about aluminium, steel and titanium metals specifically, all of which have median supply much higher than median demand according to the census.
If I understand correctly and this is true, this has gotta be the dumbest model ever imagined.
Agricultural facilities are indoors, fully climate controlled. When I look in the windows I see humans walking around The facilities are growing food for humans. Not local exobiology stuff. It takes only one ship load to deliver 784t of fertilizer... that's ALOT of fertilizer. There should be no need to be extracting gases from the atmosphere to locally manufacture fertilizer.
An agricultural facility should be equally viable anywhere that is safe to build a facility for humans.
Edit: Water. A big agricultural facility that is constantly exporting needs access to large amounts of water that can be purified and used for growing plants.
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Have a look at the new "median ratio" column at https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/specialisation#metals
That shows how much one unit of export supply - with average luck - can counteract in units of import supply.
So, roughly speaking:
- Not a chance: Palladium
- A max-sized planet full of Refinery hubs and a lucky roll: Lanthanum, Silver, Thorium, Uranium
- Maybe if you fill a really large planet full of Refinery hubs and don't get unlucky: Beryllium, Copper
- It'd need a lot of Refinery hubs but doable on a good day: Lithium, Gold
- Three hubs and average luck: Tantalum, Thallium, Cobalt
- Two hubs and average luck: Aluminium, Gallium, Bismuth, Indium
- Might even only need one hub to get something: Titanium, Steel
Yes, that's the theory. Though some of the figures for how effective the hubs are when there's already a substantial planetary effect seem to contradict the earlier "about 0.5" measurements, so it might end up a bit off that ratio.
With average luck, and assuming the hubs still end up granting about 0.5 each, three of them might do it.
With bad luck, Gold consumption varies over a massive range, so you might not be able to do it with fifteen.
This is one to start by checking your Industry's current demand for Gold versus its current supply of Hydrogen Fuel to work out how lucky you might need to be. If your Hydrogen Fuel supply is less than ten times your Gold demand (in BGS State None, or controlling for that if it's not), don't even bother trying. If it's more than that, and especially if it's a lot more than that ... no guarantees still, but with five slots you've probably got a better-than-even chance.
It doesn't really make sense does it? After I saw what the agri settlements greenhouses look like, I was sure you could grow anything on any planet as long as you could walk on it.
Except maybe for Arakis
Very interesting. Care to explain that a bit more?
What does "baseline trade quantities, adjusted for economy size" mean? Is this the total supply? Or the increase on the supply tick?
So i just docked at a 0.9 Refinery station. How can i estimate the probable size of the resupply tick and the probable max supply of a metal?
In my current case, the ground port in question has a demand (not a supply) for hydrogen fuel of 50,623 and a demand for gold of 13,717. The controlling faction is in war state.
Assuming you know how to correct for the state, what does this get me?
System pop is 225,400.
Ah. If it's a ground port, subject to the "3 commodity export" rule, then getting it to export Gold (or indeed, any specific commodity) is likely more trouble than it's worth.
These are the quantities available in the baseline condition for the market (State: None, no recent trades in that commodity) per economic unit.
The size of a market in economic units isn't directly measurable, though.
So we need to work backwards first to find out the market size. Hydrogen Fuel is generally the most convenient thing to use for this - no-one trades in it, and so far as I can tell it doesn't vary in supply between markets of the same size.
So let's say that we have 10,000t of H-Fuel on the market, and the BGS state is None [1]. H-Fuel has a supply of 42.5 tonnes [2] per economic unit, so this station has about 235 economic units.
If we look now at Steel, the supply of that is between 14.4 and 57.8 tonnes per economic unit [3]. So the market supply cap for Steel will be between about 3500t and about 13500t depending on where this station falls.
Resupply tick is going to be a lot trickier: resupply is as a proportion of the maximum supply, but isn't a constant rate for a particular commodity - it also varies from station to station. So really there's no way to be sure without extended observation of the market. I don't even have good average data for Steel - but commodities with a similar galactic average price (the higher the price, in general the slower the regeneration) suggest that Steel might fully regenerate a depleted supply in about 5 days.
So a ten minute supply tick would be 1/(5*24*6) = 1/720 of maximum supply, giving between 5t and 20t of Steel per supply cycle if that estimate of the resupply rate was correct. Actual values could be substantially outside that range, though.
[1] If not, we'll need to correct for that using the State Effects tables - https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/effects - for whatever state the station is in (and hope that they have a value calculated...). Let's assume State: None for now.
[2] There's a complication here, in that this is only true of non-Colony economies, and probably not true of Odyssey settlements. So I'm assuming that the station is 0.9 Refinery and nothing else, and an outpost or larger.
[3] It's possible the range is somewhat wider than this, as I have a limited sample of markets to check.
Ok so I have a few questions!
I want to build a high tech world. I'm thinking about using an HMC, because if I read correctly, the imports of the extraction economy wont eat the exports (at least not the ones I want?)
Also a bit of a 'how do we think population works' question.
I have a 4 seat rocky world I plan to make a refinery! HURAH plan not ruined. Now I was going to build 4 refinery hubs and a orbis in orbit.
Now I'm wondering if I leave a slot free, and build a big old T3 surface port. Will that population in anyway affect or improve the commodity market of the Orbis? Anyone want to take a guess?
I want to build a high tech world. I'm thinking about using an HMC, because if I read correctly, the imports of the extraction economy wont eat the exports (at least not the ones I want?)
Also a bit of a 'how do we think population works' question.
I have a 4 seat rocky world I plan to make a refinery! HURAH plan not ruined. Now I was going to build 4 refinery hubs and a orbis in orbit.
Now I'm wondering if I leave a slot free, and build a big old T3 surface port. Will that population in anyway affect or improve the commodity market of the Orbis? Anyone want to take a guess?