"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
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high tech on rocky will just kinda ruin the refinery.
We also don't know if population does much at all for colonies or if it's mostly just a fluff stat that only affects the scale of actions needed to influence BGS stuff. Production seems to be entirely based on base station power, econ influence amount, and development level. For instance a coriolis and a T3 station in identical situations will have the T3 producing more than the coriolis even if the system has the same development and the body has the same economic influence. Most important things for production is simply station size and econ influence stat. A 1.0 refinery body will produce twice as much as a 0.5.
We also don't know if population does much at all for colonies or if it's mostly just a fluff stat that only affects the scale of actions needed to influence BGS stuff. Production seems to be entirely based on base station power, econ influence amount, and development level. For instance a coriolis and a T3 station in identical situations will have the T3 producing more than the coriolis even if the system has the same development and the body has the same economic influence. Most important things for production is simply station size and econ influence stat. A 1.0 refinery body will produce twice as much as a 0.5.
Is there a full list of what can export and import what? I'd like to work out overlaps. I see the green and red bubbles here: https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/specialisation#metals but I don't want to start writing it myself if someone already has!
but... the T3 does have 7-8 times the population of the Coriolis, so it could be, that population matter?
Also yes, I don't mind wrecking the refinery econ on the rocky body I have in mind so long as the refinery econ from the rocky body doesn't ruin the high tech!
It does depend which high tech exports you want, but Extraction does consume quite a lot of them.
(But then, there's not really a good economy to mix with high-tech in that sense)
Immediately, because the T3 surface city comes with +10 development level, yes. Though you could get that same effect far cheaper by sticking a couple of Medium Industrial Settlements on a spare planet.
Whether the +10 maximum population that you also get for it lets you expand the Orbis population later ... or indeed whether the Orbis' +1 max population helps with that ... no idea. No-one has reported being able to increase population yet other than by building new constructions; those don't appear to increase the population of anything existing.
Not in a more convenient format than the bubble charts, I expect.
So, if dev level does really matter in supply levels, then for small neutral outposts, we shouldn't choose the commercial, but the civilian one, since it has +2 dev?
I believe it produces only 2x or 3x more. Also facilities that add pop but don't add dev never boost system production, but facilities that add dev but barely any pop do. And large T3 stations boost system wide production in line with their development contribution, not population. So far there's no actual evidence pop does anything to production levels, only station tier, local body influence, and development do.
The other thing is that system wide development has very small influence on production. Like doubling your development from say 15 to 30 will only see a very very minor uptick in production. But adding an extra hub and going from 90 to 135 influence will increase production by 66%. If the goal is high production you'll want a T3 station in orbit of a large body that you can fill with hubs. All other modifiers do little to nothing.
I still wouldn't bother with colonies until the system is officially out of beta. I know folks are curious and stuck in the skinner box, but you could go haul for another 100 hours based on the limited information we have this week only for fdev to silently change how everything works yet again. Suddenly ice bodies no longer give industrial they give agriculture. One day people notice atmospheres have a different influence on the whole economic matrix than previously determined. Or they decide refineries now only produce biowaste unless paired with military influence of exactly 1.65 and only if built exactly at midnight on a monday. Fdev is just throwing changes and numbers at a dart board with this beta.
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Consumer Ttechnology,
Synthetic Meat,
Basic Medicines,
Performance Enhancers,
Progenitor Cells,
H.E. Suits,
Non-Lethal Weapons and
Reactive armor
are all in demand for extraction economies.
Extraction eats High Tech.
Consumer Ttechnology,
Synthetic Meat,
Basic Medicines,
Performance Enhancers,
Progenitor Cells,
H.E. Suits,
Non-Lethal Weapons and
Reactive armor
are all in demand for extraction economies.
Thanks for the explanation, appreciate it! So most important are the values relative to each other and one can use them to first establish the baseline. Thanks.
Is that effective enough though to produce a good range of metals? Because even with 3 refinery hubs, it'll still only be 36% of the economy...
Station tier and population are roughly the same thing in this context, at least until/unless we get a way to increase the population of an existing station. Can matter for the cases where you can get different populations at the same tier, though.
Production levels are generally going to be proportional to sqrt(population) if they're following the NPC pattern - the Orbis having 7-8x the population but 2-3x the production suggests (after controlling for the Orbis also giving more development level) that this is still along the right lines, at least.
(And yes, that does mean that - at least after the first few points of development level are in - economic influence > development level > population will generally be how it goes)
Hard to say. On its own, the civilian is nicer (only +1 though, I think, so it's pretty marginal). On the other hand, the commercial has +5 standard of living, and a lot of the really nice buildings for +dev have a standard of living penalty.
Has there been any further research into Tech Level/Development as they relate to station services and shipyard/outfitting choices? I'm mentally switching away from "I want a useful market" towards "I want a guardian tech broker and every module in the game".
I built a T1 science outpost orbiting a rocky moon last week. Other than switching the system economy from industrial/military to high tech/industrial, and doubling the population from 9750 to 19750 I can't tell you what the "body economy" is because the station market is still not activated. I have UC and contacts, but nothing else.
Sorry, maybe I missed it in the last 90+ pages of posts.
First base in a system - Asteroid base giving Extraction with -1 Security, 3 Tech Level, 5 Wealth, -4 Standard of Living, 7 Development level - assuming the colonization UI is telling the truth.
First base in a different system over an HMC - Coriolis with Colony (initially) giving -2 Security, 1 Tech level, 2 Wealth, 3 Standard of Living and 2 Development level. If it stayed as a Colony fine and good BUT if it flips to Extraction then why wouldn't I expect the values to change to be more like those of an Asteroid base or some median value between those two?
And for anything that flips from one thing to something else why wouldn't those values change to be more reflective of the final product?
Could that be the reason there are reports of suddenly increasing numbers of available ships in shipyards? Different than expected architect payments?
First base in a system - Asteroid base giving Extraction with -1 Security, 3 Tech Level, 5 Wealth, -4 Standard of Living, 7 Development level - assuming the colonization UI is telling the truth.
First base in a different system over an HMC - Coriolis with Colony (initially) giving -2 Security, 1 Tech level, 2 Wealth, 3 Standard of Living and 2 Development level. If it stayed as a Colony fine and good BUT if it flips to Extraction then why wouldn't I expect the values to change to be more like those of an Asteroid base or some median value between those two?
And for anything that flips from one thing to something else why wouldn't those values change to be more reflective of the final product?
Could that be the reason there are reports of suddenly increasing numbers of available ships in shipyards? Different than expected architect payments?
Yes, But, apart from Basic Medicines, H.E. Suits and Non-lethal weapons, I don't need the other's for colonization. My goal is to see if I can build a hub system, so the specifics of which things get eaten is quite important. But yeah. It's not great what ever I pick.
EVERYTHING eats consumer technology and Evacuation shelters and ... and ... and ...
The system level stats like +3 development this or -2 security that are hard coded into the facility itself and never change. When a coriolis gets an extraction economy it doesn't turn into an asteroid station.
On the other hand, most things in colonisation don't need very high quantities of HT commodities.Yes, But, apart from Basic Medicines, H.E. Suits and Non-lethal weapons, I don't need the other's for colonization. My goal is to see if I can build a hub system, so the specifics of which things get eaten is quite important. But yeah. It's not great what ever I pick.
EVERYTHING eats consumer technology and Evacuation shelters and ... and ... and ...
So building the HT outpost (intrinsic economy, so unaffected by the planet, it seems) and then boosting its production with a few development level increases probably gets you a large enough market to cover reasonable construction needs.
(My Industrial outpost is covering basically all my Industrial needs at DL 7, with plenty left over if anyone else needs any; haven't tried building a HT one yet but I expect it'd work out similarly)
Are you basing that on what was before colonization or have you tested it with this new system?
So given the current state of things, and me not being in the mood to build another refinery system yet -
What are the risks of building when the other economy in system is industrial? Started with one such outpost, primary of planet 1. There is a single industrial settlement on moon 4 a, with an industrial (planetary) outpost planned. I could live with the Coriolis currently acting as refinery picking up the extraction economy of the planet given that I don’t significantly care for it, in that system. But not so much the industrial side (probably).
What are the risks of building when the other economy in system is industrial? Started with one such outpost, primary of planet 1. There is a single industrial settlement on moon 4 a, with an industrial (planetary) outpost planned. I could live with the Coriolis currently acting as refinery picking up the extraction economy of the planet given that I don’t significantly care for it, in that system. But not so much the industrial side (probably).
Put simply unless you can push that Industrial influence out of the station your refinery is going to be eaten up by that Industrial market. Unless you can do that, I think the best bet for building future markets is to specialize the system as much as you can towards only Refinery or other specific market types. Don't build a port for a different economy unless you're absolutely sure you want that pressure in your system.