Development Update 1 - June

[Snedex]

I would so like Frontier to have come up with more here, especially regarding the future updates, where they said ... nothing.

Anything would be better than nothing.

A few suggestions:
1) Outline what went wrong at launch after a an OK alpha phase: why did it all blow up?
2) Some more technical details about planet rendering and performance issue - what are these pathways exactly?
3) Future plans: mention at least one example of additional content coming in Odyssey and a best guess for Console release.

Plenty more could be said I'm sure.

My best opinion/guess would be they can't answer any of these questions in any meaningful way as they'd have to admit the product was initially not fit for release or there were internal documented concerns raised prior to go-live which could open them up to legal issues. The company protects itself afterall.

Is the focus only on players who have high-spec PCs?

I'm on the high end of the spectrum and I struggle on planets with high numbers of scatter rocks or pointy mountains to get above 18 FPS on a 2060 with eventual crash to desktop. I don't think it's hardware at this point, given the high variance over many configurations, it's the software.

 

[ZiggyGG]

If I'm Sean Murray watching all this unfold I'd release the details about the Aug update like right now...

 

[MCCART]

My take on this is that FDev does not know why performance is so broken and that the game has no real leadership or plan for the future.

I think that the Cobra engine is fundamentally broken and nobody that is left at FDev understands it well enough to fix it.

I think that they are focusing on the console release to try and figure out how far they need to downgrade all of the graphics to get the game to push 30fps on the previous gen consoles. Once they hit that bar they will push the downgrade to the PC version as a "fix".

I also think that in the next 2 - 3 years FDev will be bought out by 10 cent and the planet games will be the only products and will be 100% mobile.

That sounds, eminently, plausible. Bookmarked.

 

[Erei]

I predict "Pathways" will be the word of the week.

Cheers,

Drew.

Works wonder with the already existing palpatine meme.
"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider unnatural".

I'm busy but I'll work on some.

 

[DazeDreamer]

I mean I can see their trying to deal with a lot and that takes time their doing what they can I get that, but after pretty much six months of "the name that cannot be mentioned" perhaps at least talk at little about consoles.....I mean do we actually still exist in Elite I am beginning to wander though lol. Wouldn't have been as bothered if they weren't trying to be more transparent with what they do, it doesn't help if your trying to knit the community together. I have played and will continue to play and support Elite in whatever guise its just beyond frustrating sometimes.......Rant over

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Thanks for the update. o7

One question: Will there be further updates until console release or not?

This is a deal breaking issue that needs adressed straight up. I'ts really not a good optic for PC to have to wait 4 5 or 6 months for console launch to get any more remedial work.

Impressively frank!
I'll look forward to tomorrow and patch 5 for improvements...
Will there be follow-on 'hotfixes' for the top 5?

Same question - ongoing hotfixes yay or nay?

*Slightly more detail on things coming in the update tomorrow
*Reassurances that they are working on fixing other major issues like performance and terrain generation
*Promises that better communication will come

Did I miss anything?

Update: Oh yeah, probably no fix for the repeating terrain

Yup its a massive dissappointment, "sure the patient is bleeding to death, but rest assured that we are trying to find the first aid kit"

So the VR DSS fix didn't make it in?

Dinnae be so daft, VR... We've been designated roadkill.

Sooo lighting, thousands of other things and then we turn our attention to console. Right. Thanks. o7

Nothing that couldn't be sorted by parameter value changes in the gamma and tonal curves.

So planetary tech is so broken, there isn't a time frame to when it'll be serviceable. Aside from space legs, the planetary tech is one of the major selling points of this whole expansion/dlc. This is so wack.

It's insultingly bad, particularly the cookie cutter stuff stamped all over the planets surface like a kid with tuxpaint.

No answers to the biggest questions on the forum as per usual just glanced off with reworded news we already knew

Drop the grenade then bail out of the office for the day to leave us to simmer down a bit...

Guys... instead of tweaking and constantly correcting, you should just make cockpit lighting adjustable (color and intensity) in-game.
It would make this one issue go away once and for all, because everyone would be happy with their own settings, whether they like it dark or light.

Dr.Kai makes a third party tool that does this already, it's such low hanging froot I'm surprised they haven't tripped up over it, but oh no, that won't sell arx.

1. Not as much as settlements/stations/outposts it's 38 ships and 26 internal layouts
2. How do YOU know they haven't started it?

You got dismantled on this by someone else, but ship interiors were promised as part of the kickstarter pledges, and interior skins have come up as a suggestion from the community so they would be lucrative. On the second point, were they to have already started ship interiors, they would iether have folded them into Odyssey, or dangled them as a carrot to appease the players.

So....

1. Improvements to lighting - We fixed it!
2. Degraded terrain textures compared to Horizons - We're still working on it.
3. Planetary features that appear to repeat - We don't know how to fix this.
4. Anarchy factions and the BGS - We think we've fixed it.
5. FPS performance in Odyssey - We're still working on it.

Is that right?

Cheers,

Drew.

Sadly that is all, as I said earlier, patient's bleeding to death and they are having an investigation to find the frist aid kit.

Thanks for the update team. I think many of us expected to get a glimpse into the "many features" that were supposed to be coming soon to Odyssey, so it's a bit weird to see just a list of challenges without a fix yet. I do appreciate and wish you continued that kind of communication - maybe a (bi)weekly post on what's top of mind even if the team does not have a fix yet - that would be the transparency so many of us wanted and hoped to see after you pledge for better comms.

With that said, it's utterly unacceptable that whoever is leading this decided it's best for the team to focus on console port next - Odyssey is clearly in an advanced Alpha, there's little content that's not simply a grind and they want to leave it on low simmer fix-wise and try to get the cash of console players? It's like the company is actively working to turn their customers against them.

It needs to be spelled out - PC playerbase are the customers who were sold half a product and are now being told not to expect getting the rest of it, they might get a few fixes for the top voted issues from the tracker that's also barely working. How are you able to get any new business and partnerships is beyond me.
PS I do understand there's a number of people that enjoy what's on offer - completely get that and won't hold it against you. I've moved on to expect more in 2021 when games cost more, require more time to reach "the good part" and incorporated microtranscations for things that would have been available free of charge a decade ago.

Fly safe, I hope the Leads on this & Management will have a change of hearts at some point and start treating ED with respect it deserves.

This!

Yeah, I think now @Bottom Hat can haz my stuphz.

I'm on the verge of giving him a shout myself...

My English is not good, but does this mean that from tomorrow we can be bored to death with an average of 60 FPS for the next few years, with the contentless DLC? Is nothing more coming? Is Elite Dangerous done?

Your english is excellent, and you nailed the summary. o7

There is zero point in releasing this on console until it is fixed on PC. Barely anyone will buy it after reading all the negative stuff about Odyssey online. I personally still only play Horizons because of how it looks in VR on Odyssey compared to Horizons.

Worse than zero sales, it will do massive reputational damage to the company, if it even gets past console platform store's QA.

Summation of Update 1
"We're fixing some unforced errors that are all still working gangbusters in Horizons. Additionally, we have no idea what we're doing in terms of fixing the core issues. G'day."

Brilliant!

I understand that you paid for a skin, I did it and I even have FC, I have a corvette kit ect, but let's be real damn once, the status of the DLC is more important than a damn skin, you have paid, ok, but the game goes like the and the priority is the game not a damn skin

Yes, this DLC is too borked to focus on such details, although fixing the lame duck rendering might fix some skins, for everything there's arx refunds after they call development a wrap. And trust me, I've got a long list of things that will be asking for an arx refund on based on what i've seen in Odyssey.

$o what the Arf i$ ba$ically $ayin' i$ that they changed the bulb$ and fixed the lighting ju$t long enough to $ell the con$ole ver$ion and then it'$ light$ out for good, for Elite?? A$kin' for a friend. Hey, at lea$t he'$ hone$t!

THIS!!!! Slap a band aid on it then go mug console players for their money then naff off and make a warhammer and or F1 game.

Gotta love this new improved communication too, drops weak post after hyping it up as a livestream for a month. Then proceeds to vanish from thread.

Lob in a grenade then slam the door shut - epic tactics, brings back memories of roadmap day...

 

[yianniv]

He is saying two things:

1) the players have so many proposals and ideas, no team could ever do all. Basically "the everything-game is fun to daydream about but never will happen." He is correct.

2) they have to invest way more into post-launch fixes than planned. This is undermining their longer term planning. In other words, some of the planned stuff will have to be delayed, simplified or scrapped. They are deciding this in the coming period.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I appreciate it.

 

[knowles2]

Thanks for the update. But prepare for riots. Especially on the:

• We understand this is an important topic within the community. As mentioned at the start of the article, we want to share the challenges as well as the positives. Investigations are still ongoing, however, it must be said that this is proving to be a very significant technical challenge. At the current time we do not have a workable solution. BUT, investigations will continue and we will keep you updated.

Is as if you never tested it and never noticed the "repeatable pattern". But hey, I know how hard software dev is so. Good luck and keep us updated.

o7

That one of the things I remember they worked on at hello games for NMS, they created a program that randomly show the devs planets that the game generate, which they then could put through some basic checks,. If Frontier has such a system it would have shown them such bugs or flaws in the design of their terrain generation system.

 

[beatwaster]

Hey CMDRs, 5 Update news:

I think this whole Odyssey was released in order to beautifully close the game, to withdraw money on the development of content that no one will complete.
Show many reasons why the game is not particularly suitable for most players, and that those wagons of content that you were waiting for turned out to be three cacti on an empty planet, as well as a couple of wooden bots running between primitive buildings that turn your computer into bricks. To ensure that some of the players leave the game on their own, and the remaining minority can be neatly brought to the fact that the project is being curtailed.

The money invested in the development has already been partially converted and returned from the purchases of the "release". There is no one else to develop content and there is no need for it. The game will be combed a little more like a dead man in a coffin and left to rot for the next year. At the end of the year, 10-5 percent of the players will remain and then the server will be disconnected from the artificial respiration apparatus.
Of course, you don't even have to talk about the release on the console.

 

[CMDR Mayhem]

Cant wait to hear the ongoing excuses for the console release. 2021 ahhaha yeah right, i called it last year. 3 delays? 4 delays? What a mismanaged disgrace this company is.

 

[blackice]

My take on this is that FDev does not know why performance is so broken and that the game has no real leadership or plan for the future.

I think that the Cobra engine is fundamentally broken and nobody that is left at FDev understands it well enough to fix it.

I think that they are focusing on the console release to try and figure out how far they need to downgrade all of the graphics to get the game to push 30fps on the previous gen consoles. Once they hit that bar they will push the downgrade to the PC version as a "fix".

I also think that in the next 2 - 3 years FDev will be bought out by 10 cent and the planet games will be the only products and will be 100% mobile.

I watched a 10 minute video of the nanite feature in unreal engine 5. Why bother with old tech or upgrading it (wasting useful time not developing the game but the engine) when these things exist and are other peoples problems.

I made a character walk around a 1 billion tris environment at 60fps with an atmosphere. That was me watching 1 YouTube video…

it feels like the cobra engine is being pushed too far. Maybe most of the dev resource is fixing the engine and there isn’t a roadmap beyond this… in comparison to other roadmaps cough cough star citizen which is publicly accessible information planned out for the next 3 years. Might all be hype but keeps people interested, just like the kick starter of elite with Mr Braben himself excited about shop interiors and EVA, sneaking onto ships etc.. or even the Elite official art has all this.

In summary I’d like to see a 3 year rough (subject to change) roadmap and more importantly voting for features led by the community and the community only. They pay the bills, they should get to decide what comes.

/end rant

 

[CMDR Rabbit]

I predict "Pathways" will be the word of the week.

Cheers,

Drew.

Works wonder with the already existing palpatine meme.
"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider unnatural".

I'm busy but I'll work on some.

I hope they're removing the "Route Cancelled" toast when you reach the end of your currently plotted pathway.


Am i doin it right?

 

[Ian Skippy]

OP was underwhelming, but citing SC as a how to do it doesn't do you favors...

People always think they want to hear 'the truth', but they always prefer comfortable lies. Star Citizen shows gamers will forgive any lie as long as the next one is comfortable enough.

It's why people tend to vote for obvious frauds, and then complain politicians are always obvious frauds.

 

[Erei]

I hope they're removing the "Route Cancelled" toast when you reach the end of your currently plotted pathway.


Am i doin it right?

I'll follow your pathway with great interest, young jedi.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I watched a 10 minute video of the nanite feature in unreal engine 5. Why bother with old tech or upgrading it (wasting useful time not developing the game but the engine) when these things exist and are other peoples problems.

I made a character walk around a 1 billion tris environment at 60fps with an atmosphere. That was me watching 1 YouTube video…

it feels like the cobra engine is being pushed too far. Maybe most of the dev resource is fixing the engine and there isn’t a roadmap beyond this… in comparison to other roadmaps cough cough star citizen which is publicly accessible information planned out for the next 3 years. Might all be hype but keeps people interested, just like the kick starter of elite with Mr Braben himself excited about shop interiors and EVA, sneaking onto ships etc.. or even the Elite official art has all this.

In summary I’d like to see a 3 year rough (subject to change) roadmap and more importantly voting for features led by the community and the community only. They pay the bills, they should get to decide what comes.

/end rant

Cool. Now add a 1:1 procgen galaxy and see how UE5 is handling it.

 

[Salen]

I understand that you paid for a skin, I did it and I even have FC, I have a corvette kit ect, but let's be real damn once, the status of the DLC is more important than a damn skin, you have paid, ok, but the game goes like the and the priority is the game not a damn skin

Oh, I agree, FDev should do more to fix the Odyssey DLC over a single, non-plural skin, but considering that they just said they weren't doing ANY fixes to instead focus on the Console build of Oddy, well we're both in for disappointment. See, the Acceleration White skin is just 1 skin that has issues with the lighting system. While I think FDev might have changed it, it'll still probably be broken tomorrow, along with all sorts of metallic skins that people have paid money for, not just Accel White, and then we'll be complaining for the next 3ish months till we get updates along with the Consoles.

Wee.

 

[Vi7ER]

Settled in for what sounded like a really open and honest frank article about the future....

Oh that was short! Started so well too. Full of promise.

Bet that took ages to write so kudos for taking the time. We can now rest easy as we can see clearly into FDev.

The veil is lifted. Rejoice!.

 

[Jack Wilmslow]

Staff retention and outsourcing most of their artist work outside frontier I would believe is the issue with this, They fly through employees like CMDR's fly through the neutron highway due to concerning management issues

Yeah for Cambridge, the wages offered at FDev are massively lower that what would be considered a living wage. Cost of living has massively increased in the last year in the UK and our exit of the EU has massively shone a light on that, and made the situation massively worse.

Also people are leaving for WFH positions for generally more money and better benefits.

If you knew how much some of them are paid you'd be sick in your stomach.

I have a long term health condition, and I have a higher income than a lot of the workers there (And I still really struggle month to month). They need to start offering a basic salary of at least £35K pa with leads going into the £60K pa mark.

I'd be disgusted in FDev if say Arthur was earning anything less than £50K for his role.

But this is an industry wide issue (and even then, not even limited to the games industry) with publicly traded companies paying below rate incomes.

I think it's definitely getting to that stage that upper management need to consider if the current situation is resulting in a bleeding of staff levels and destruction of moral.

 

[Emmvee]

So let's be clear.........

On SC news about 2 weeks ago Arf said this (paraphrase) " I'm really pleased to say that we will get a Developer from a specific department on here once a month to explain to the community what they are working on and to answer any questions"..........that's a Developer Stream

Then last week it became clear that has now changed to a specific forum post from a Developer.......that's a Developer Post

Then a change again this week, but only a subtle one. Changing the word Developer to Development.......very subtle but clever.......this has now become a Development Post

Then the post drops, and, yes you guest it, the post is nothing of the sort. All it does is basically tell us what we already knew but in a different way.
The subtle word change works a treat because there's no Developer in sight, it's just good old Arf.
FDev slowly retreat to the shadows, having once again fooled the community

 

[Sic Mundus]

Odyssey really does feel like that one last big heist you pull before you quit the game for good and go off to live in the Caymans with all the money you stole.