News Development Update - 15th Jan

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I get very confused about people who post how upset they are about other people paying for a weeks worth of Beta access. I have zero interest in testing and am more than happy to wait a week.

If others want to pay to help test a new update with the existing Beta folk, fantastic - more money to FD for whatever they want to use it for (hopefully plow it all back into Elite) and a slightly more stable update will be released to the masses.

No-one HAS to buy into Beta if they don't want to. Could someone explain to this simpleton why the upset ...
 
Oh hell yeah! Hope my mates, who are not playing the game because of the lack of cooperative missions, come to play again with me thanks to "Wings". (also hope it works that way though) ;)
 
I get very confused about people who post how upset they are about other people paying for a weeks worth of Beta access. I have zero interest in testing and am more than happy to wait a week.

If others want to pay to help test a new update with the existing Beta folk, fantastic - more money to FD for whatever they want to use it for (hopefully plow it all back into Elite) and a slightly more stable update will be released to the masses.

No-one HAS to buy into Beta if they don't want to. Could someone explain to this simpleton why the upset ...

The upset happens mainly because no where else in the world, through all of Earth's history of eletronic gaming, someone had to pay for the "privilege" of testing a beta for a game that has already been released. In fact, the standard thing to do is to *pay* people to test it, not the other way around. Since the advent of the internet, free betas became common, but now we're going into a new era -- one where you pay to test something that you used to get for free or be payed to do!

Elite really is a game ahead of it's time.
 
The upset happens mainly because no where else in the world, through all of Earth's history of eletronic gaming, someone had to pay for the "privilege" of testing a beta for a game that has already been released. In fact, the standard thing to do is to *pay* people to test it, not the other way around. Since the advent of the internet, free betas became common, but now we're going into a new era -- one where you pay to test something that you used to get for free or be payed to do!

Elite really is a game ahead of it's time.

The upset has mainly happened because people are (some honestly and some wilfully) failing to see the context.

A big crowd of us have already paid for beta access. While you may or may not agree with whether we should have been charged for this, this is how we chose to support the game. I see this beta testing of big patches as FD throwing us an additional bone, which is nice.

Also, there are several advantages of this idea. First, we get the aforementioned bone. Second, we are a self-selected bunch of Elite fans. Third, we are relatively few. This makes us a supremely valuable testing tool. If the testing was open to all, FD would get thousands upon thousands of reports from testers which would really be about the core gameplay, which is settled. Testers with a clue are much more valuable than those without, and this is a genius way to access them. Establishing a pay barrier is not only fair to existing testers (who I imagine thought their special treatment ended at release, and are thus enjoying this unexpected bonus) but prevents useless shouters from clogging up the feedback mechanism.

By the way (this is in relation to another post of DCello, which I don't have a link to right now), when considering whether a feature ought to be added, you've got to consider whether it makes the game unfair. It's not simply a case of 'why can't I have it if I want it? you don't have to have it'. If it in anyway confers an advantage on one crowd over another, it needs careful consideration.

And finally, in general, FD are making the game they want to play. If they don't want a particular mechanism, there's a reason. I was (pleasantly) surprised today to read an archived thread about yaw, where they mentioned that they used to have a cursor that pointed to your current target (like in Freelancer and X), but found that it reduced the fun in combat as you ended up just focusing on the cursor, which you could follow and ignore all other scanners. So they _took it out_. Of course, we don't see this. I imagine, though, that almost all of the simple things that people propose as if it's obvious it ought to be there, have been tried already, found wanting, and left out. FD aren't idiots.

They have already shown themselves to be tougher than some other devs, and I want it to stay this way. They value feedback from the Elite old guard, and the new guard, but they still will make the game they want to play. It is crucially important to the quality of this game that the vision of the devs is not lost in a beige mishmash of all the bits people like from all the space games. It's not meant to be that, it's meant to be a hard-edged, gimlet-eyed space hawk of a genre-definer. A few years down the line, this will be one of the things everyone knows about, like Warcraft and Eve. And what will make it so is adherence to the vision. The real genius is in knowing what people want, before they do. Original Elite was this, E|D can be too.
 
The upset happens mainly because no where else in the world, through all of Earth's history of eletronic gaming, someone had to pay for the "privilege" of testing a beta for a game that has already been released. In fact, the standard thing to do is to *pay* people to test it, not the other way around. Since the advent of the internet, free betas became common, but now we're going into a new era -- one where you pay to test something that you used to get for free or be payed to do!

Elite really is a game ahead of it's time.


So these people really want to be testers for a week so much (for the good of the game and benefit of all I presume - why else would they want to be Beta testers?), that it is causing them actual upset because they're being denied the chance to help the community. I think I'm getting it now.
 
The upset has mainly happened because people are (some honestly and some wilfully) failing to see the context.

A big crowd of us have already paid for beta access. While you may or may not agree with whether we should have been charged for this, this is how we chose to support the game. I see this beta testing of big patches as FD throwing us an additional bone, which is nice.

Also, there are several advantages of this idea. First, we get the aforementioned bone. Second, we are a self-selected bunch of Elite fans. Third, we are relatively few. This makes us a supremely valuable testing tool. If the testing was open to all, FD would get thousands upon thousands of reports from testers which would really be about the core gameplay, which is settled. Testers with a clue are much more valuable than those without, and this is a genius way to access them. Establishing a pay barrier is not only fair to existing testers (who I imagine thought their special treatment ended at release, and are thus enjoying this unexpected bonus) but prevents useless shouters from clogging up the feedback mechanism.

By the way (this is in relation to another post of DCello, which I don't have a link to right now), when considering whether a feature ought to be added, you've got to consider whether it makes the game unfair. It's not simply a case of 'why can't I have it if I want it? you don't have to have it'. If it in anyway confers an advantage on one crowd over another, it needs careful consideration.

And finally, in general, FD are making the game they want to play. If they don't want a particular mechanism, there's a reason. I was (pleasantly) surprised today to read an archived thread about yaw, where they mentioned that they used to have a cursor that pointed to your current target (like in Freelancer and X), but found that it reduced the fun in combat as you ended up just focusing on the cursor, which you could follow and ignore all other scanners. So they _took it out_. Of course, we don't see this. I imagine, though, that almost all of the simple things that people propose as if it's obvious it ought to be there, have been tried already, found wanting, and left out. FD aren't idiots.

They have already shown themselves to be tougher than some other devs, and I want it to stay this way. They value feedback from the Elite old guard, and the new guard, but they still will make the game they want to play. It is crucially important to the quality of this game that the vision of the devs is not lost in a beige mishmash of all the bits people like from all the space games. It's not meant to be that, it's meant to be a hard-edged, gimlet-eyed space hawk of a genre-definer. A few years down the line, this will be one of the things everyone knows about, like Warcraft and Eve. And what will make it so is adherence to the vision. The real genius is in knowing what people want, before they do. Original Elite was this, E|D can be too.

Backers got to play the game through all versions for over a year already, got the "personal pride" of helping the game happen, and have access to Founder's World and Backers Forum, among other stuff -- if they keep treating them as the one and only consumers, everyone else will feel second hand. I appreciate the vote of confidence people put in the game, but it's not fair to punish those who didn't paid or didn't knew about it even after the game was released -- backers got to help the shape the game took before release, and now that the game is "out", we all have the same right to voice our opinions and help shape the direction it will take from now on, without being attacked with a ridiculously stupid "don't like it, don't play duuuuh". Personally, I find this situation to be a case of "I have the bone, and I don't want others to have it".


About the "considering whether a feature ought to be added, you've got to consider whether it makes the game unfair" bit, I totally agree with you -- I believe in giving the player all the tools and options humanely possible, as long as it doesn't becomes unfair or breaks the balance of the game. Do you happen to remember what was the subject you said I posted about that fall into that category? If you are right, it means I am mistaken in one of my opinions and I need to rectify that.


Lastly, about the legacy of ED, I got to be pretty honest: I am from the age of space sims too, and Elite has never been anything but a minor blip on my radar. The pinnacle of the genre, back when TIE Fighter, Wing Commander, and etc were released, are stuff you hear about constantly to this day. Elite went pretty much buried for the last 15 years in any form of game press or spotlight. Even the reviews barely mention the 3 previous games everyone here is so fond about. So while I do get the amount of nostalgia and love these people have for the previous game, I am afraid they blind themselves to what is right in front of them. I am not saying this game will fail or that it should -- I love this game, I really do. But I also realize by the way that most people here talk about things, and by the way the developers set their goals, that they are trying to rescue a past long gone, and I'm sorry, but that *never* works out. Honour the old Elite. Take everything that made it awesome, put it on a spotlight, but for Christ's sake, admit 30 years went past and change accordingly -- evolve beyond graphics and scale, and make a experience that can last for *another* 30 years, instead of trying to recreate what made the past one last so much.

So these people really want to be testers for a week so much (for the good of the game and benefit of all I presume - why else would they want to be Beta testers?), that it is causing them actual upset because they're being denied the chance to help the community. I think I'm getting it now.

Pretty much, yeah. Stavro made a good point about the problem of letting everyone beta test, but I hardly trust all backers to know how to do it simply because they're backers. I for one am an experienced alpha and beta tester of over 50 games, and I'm paid for it. I would have no problem helping FD to test ED for free, but I sure as all hell am not paying for it after they declared the game as "released" last month.
 
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I get very confused about people who post how upset they are about other people paying for a weeks worth of Beta access. I have zero interest in testing and am more than happy to wait a week.

If others want to pay to help test a new update with the existing Beta folk, fantastic - more money to FD for whatever they want to use it for (hopefully plow it all back into Elite) and a slightly more stable update will be released to the masses.

No-one HAS to buy into Beta if they don't want to. Could someone explain to this simpleton why the upset ...

My exact thoughts. Um no idea what all the fuss is about... Just wait a week and you'll get it for free. I think people just look for a reason to rage and get upset. And if there isn't a reason than they get upset about the lack of one.
 
Forum outrcy ..

LOL if they listened to forum outcry we'd see OFF , oh well never mind. ;)


So it's not actually a beta test at all, because there's no time to collate feedback or resolve bug reports. Sounds more like paid for early access used as a binary acceptance test; if it fails (forum outcry) you re-plan.
 
Does this mean you fixed the explorer's click-here-and-wait-30-seconds-and-repeat-for-multiple-hours mini game that we must play every time we return from out 1,000Ly routes?
 
I still can't play the game due to this Unhandled exception error. Starting to feel like I just wasted 60$ on this game >.<

Why are you posting this - do you want help with your issue, or are you waiting for your vaguly described problem to be resolved by itself?

If you haven't already done so, ticket the problem with support, providing screen shots and a description of when, where and how the problem manifests itself.

Have you searched the forums for your particular error message, because there's bound to be a thread/series of posts about your exact problem. If that search didn't show up anything, then perhaps you're the only one with that problem and the issue is with your setup, so I'd recommend posting details you've sent support to a more appropriate place on this forum and I'm sure the forumites will have you up and running in no time 😄

If you've done the above, wait, otherwise yes, you've wasted $60.
 
Firstly love the game, enjoying it immensely.

Secondly I am floored by your plan to charge the player base to help you do your job. I don't care that it is optional but it is a concept I find offensive and greedy. I have no problems paying for expansions but this is one step too far. And I have no interest in getting into a debate with the fanboys over this. This post is purely for the company.


FD ave 10s of thousand of Beta tester who pay for privilege. A lot o outcry if suddenly gave this away for free, but FD recognise plenty of generous folk like yourself who want to contribute to stability of ED and want to give you an "in" with paid option. You should be saying a polite "thanks you, but no thanks you" and move forward
 
I presumed the chargeable beta access would be lifetime against the account, not just for Wings. Had FD not offered it there would be complaints that they should offer it. No win situation me thinks. Underlying point is that FD consider this update as significant and they are trying to limit the risk which is the prudent thing to do.
 
I hope the beta test add-on will be available soon to buy since I wanted to buy the beta pack instead of the Mecenary pack, but I was short on money at that time.
 
Good work so far guys, A thought for the future If/when you can fit it in, Would it be possible to have some form of in game journal that displays, say our last 50 to 100 trading purchasing transactions showing When / Where, what was Bought / Sold and values at that time, most pilots will by now have their "Pet" trade runs which is fine, however, as we expand out over into the greater galaxy, the volume of data will become very unwieldy for most manual updating systems for this simple reason personal journals exist in other games.
 
Another way of looking at this, is that people will be paying to test features that should have already been implemented in the public release last December. That's how ridiculous the development of ED is, biting off more they can chew to try and get an empty shell of a game working solely for the 30th anniversary of Elite.

Anyway, luckily I'm a Premium Beta backer, so testing ED is in my blood, so it will always be a WIP. However, ATM, I'm not too bothered about testing new features, especially for a week. It's not worth it IMO. I'd rather wait a week and enjoy a more stable version of ED. Another thing that bothers me is how will my commander's game save be affected, especially if I'm using a separate client? Also, I've put a lot of time and investment into that commander, so I wouldn't want to lose all that hard earned graft because of a new beta bug.

Remember though, your choice may also boil down to how much this new beta testing will cost for each additional feature.
 
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FD ave 10s of thousand of Beta tester who pay for privilege. A lot o outcry if suddenly gave this away for free, but FD recognise plenty of generous folk like yourself who want to contribute to stability of ED and want to give you an "in" with paid option. You should be saying a polite "thanks you, but no thanks you" and move forward

Indeed. I paid £200 to be an Alpha Backer way back in late 2013 and have been delighted to take part in the testing so far. As a lot of folk in here I care about this game and wanted to be a part of the development process, and importantly I also wanted to help FD financially. Call me a sucker if you wish I wont argue with that, but Im happy with how this game is going and I can see the long game which is very exciting indeed.
 
Good work so far guys, A thought for the future If/when you can fit it in, Would it be possible to have some form of in game journal that displays, say our last 50 to 100 trading purchasing transactions showing When / Where, what was Bought / Sold and values at that time, most pilots will by now have their "Pet" trade runs which is fine, however, as we expand out over into the greater galaxy, the volume of data will become very unwieldy for most manual updating systems for this simple reason personal journals exist in other games.

A journal/history is a nice idea.

Another way of looking at this, is that people will be paying to test features that should have already been implemented in the public release last December. That's how ridiculous the development of ED is, biting off more they can chew to try and get an empty shell of a game working solely for the 30th anniversary of Elite.

Anyway, luckily I'm a Premium Beta backer, so testing ED is in my blood, so it will always be a WIP. However, ATM, I'm not too bothered about testing new features, especially for a week. It's not worth it IMO. I'd rather wait a week and enjoy a more stable version of ED. Another thing that bothers me is how will my commander's game save be affected, especially if I'm using a separate client? Also, I've put a lot of time and investment into that commander, so I wouldn't want to lose all that hard earned graft because of a new beta bug.

Remember though, your choice may also boil down to how much this new beta testing will cost for each additional feature.

They said some 3 times already that the beta will be done in a separate instance and your current save will not be affected.

Indeed. I paid £200 to be an Alpha Backer way back in late 2013 and have been delighted to take part in the testing so far. As a lot of folk in here I care about this game and wanted to be a part of the development process, and importantly I also wanted to help FD financially. Call me a sucker if you wish I wont argue with that, but Im happy with how this game is going and I can see the long game which is very exciting indeed.

Good for you. However, given no one here can actually see the future, "the long game" has as much chance of failing miserably as it does of not.
 
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