Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts. :)
That actualy sounds good.
That way everyone gets to have fun.

Would it be possible to have a ''hardcore'' option were no matter what its allways the best AI when they attack you , or something like that? (as an option of course)
 
Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts. :)

I'm Sorry. Really sorry. I've just read this and it has raised every hair on my head. Adaptive AI is the worst type of AI I can possibly think of. What it means in translation:

If you are rubbish, so is the AI so you can "enjoy" the game by killing all AI
If you are good - you get challenge, so you are not bored, but you still kill everything or run away....

Where are the days when Elite meant Elite and if you were rubbish player you got killed by Elite AI. Yes Killed, blown up to dust, made feel like you were a useless pilot. It also makes the world corrupted for players who shouldn't be able to achieve something, just to make them feel good - Nanny state style...

It has been some time, but years ago I've played a hard dungeon in GW2 (guild wars 2 ) Aether path and it took my group 5 hours to complete and only a very small percentage of the players got to complete it. It felt like an achievement. With adaptive AI I can kill a wing of 5 Anacondas (or run away at any point) with Elite status and I will feel nothing as it won't be an achievement when I see a video of somebody with little pilot skill do the same 2 days later...

Adaptive AI (in terms of difficulty) is in my opinion the biggest abomination ever made in Games since the dawn of time to keep everybody happy... It is the compromise that kills all achievements for the sake of cry babies who simply complain instead of learning how to fly....

Your work (and your teams) on AI for 2.1 is amazing. I applaud you, but please for the love of all that is good in games today - please do not do adaptive AI... It will single handedily wipe away any achievement and also put people who play in open in a terrible position of being completely unprepared for real encounters with players who don't act like the AI and don't get dummer with low skill.

PS Excuse my spelling - written in an affect after reading your post. I'm sure you are doing great work on AI - 2.1 is the absolute proof of that and I congratulate you, but please do succumb to the group of players who want this game to be playable by 5 year olds....

So it should be only accessable for people who can learn combat?

Why then is this on the Elite home page?

PLAY YOUR WAY
 
I'm a 2 week old player...the game is currently completely unplayable fer me ^^

Any advice on how to earn the millions and billions that I need to have even a slim hope is greatly appreciated...so far, not one player has managed to come up with anything useful...apart from save a few million to buy better thrusters so I can run faster...inspiring stuff but how do I save up a couple mill when I can't even complete a 22k mission because the missions are bugged?


There are so many guides out there, it's not even funny. Honestly, the rhetoric you give makes it sound like the game is so hard you can't even un-dock without being obliterated. The game's difficulty has not gone from 0-60 in this one patch, it's more like 50-60. If you are struggling now you were struggling before and this patch has little to do with it. Do you think anyone believes this kind of hyperbole or do you think it adds anything to the discussion?

There is over 100 pages of responses, you've read them all? I've seen some excellent advice from some of the longest standing players and some great pilots.

I'm curious to know why you think we should be encouraging you or helping you to play at all, especially considering your attitude in most of your posts?

You realise there is a whole forum, with a wealth of information to peruse?

Anyway, here is a video detailing how you can get your prize Anaconda - but it won't help you be a better pilot or understand the game:

[video=youtube;PkuXoLf81pM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkuXoLf81pM[/video]

Note, while I appreciate this is not up to date with the current patch you can still do it and weasel your way up into the ship you believe will resolve your problems.
 
So it should be only accessable for people who can learn combat?

Why then is this on the Elite home page?

PLAY YOUR WAY
What? yeah play your way.
No one is forced into combat.
When did some trading this morning I did not get into any combat. I got interdicted but I managed to get out fine.

Its play your way in the elite universe , and anyway does the adaptive AI not sound good? it means I get my hard AI , and you get your easier AI.
Win/win right.

And you are calling yourself edison trent... from freelancer the game that 90% of the plot line was combat? harder combat than most of what elite dangerous 2.0 gave you. and the trading in freelancer was a joke anyway because the prices were fixed and the universe was not open , just an ilusion
 
They use modified weapons and your shields will not help you. You need to have modified shields.
Oh good, so I immediately get destroyed because that thing that just released is on all the AI ships... but not mine.

And with my now... 1 million spare cash (leaving me my 1 rebuy), and minimum what... 300LY of round trip to get to the Engineers then get the parts they want, and however much it costs, to engineer my shields.
IF I survive that.

I was going to A-Rate my Python, should be about half way there now before I head back to Li Yong space to kit it out.
Can't afford any of that now.
So to be able to recoup the losses I made, I'd have to what... further downgrade my ship (hardly viable) or switch down ship (why the hell should I when I worked hard to get my bloody Python), to modifiy my current ship to be good enough to cope, so I can then earn enough to upgrade it, and make another huge, expensive journey to upgrade that.

That is not fun.
Constantly losing my ship, then being told by people I suck, and I need to downgrade / spend numerous hours trying to upgrade my ship to even live is not fun.

I've been doing fine playing as I have for months.
And now there's this either, broken system or MASSIVE difficulty hike.
It invalidates all of my game time till now, and makes me not want to play.

I'm glad some people are having fun, that for some it's a challenge.

But for others like myself... it's untenable.
 
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No it wasn`t a crass decision, its called game developement. Do you work for nothing?, do you want the game to remain static for the next number of years because some people want to play the same game as everyone else while not paying for it. What utter horse****** to come out with.

You could probably do with being less aggressive than you are because you are not actually making much sense. Please read the following line carefully.

FD will sell you 1.6 today. You can buy it in their on-line shop as a real game! There is no disclaimer that if you buy this multi-player game, you will not actually have the same equipment as everyone else.

If the next Elite upgrade only works on the Mac will you sacrifice yourself to your own philosophy?
 
So it should be only accessable for people who can learn combat?

Why then is this on the Elite home page?

PLAY YOUR WAY


Play your way = means play your role, what ever role in what ever way you want. Be what you want to be in space, but don't expect to be an assassin if you can't learn combat skills. The AI isn't overly hard- it is just reasonable. Play your way, but expect to have to run away or go into Open and wing up with players to protect you. Learn to fly - the AI isn't hardcore - I would like it to be, but it really isn't. Go and try to fight against some of the pilots out there in open and Elite anaconda AI will look like a kitten against a superb human pilot in Cobra...

Play your way - doesn't mean turn the AI brain dead if the player can barely fly......
 
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For all who think AI is too hard.

If you dont want to play with hard NPC, dont play them
If you want easy NPC - then play with easy NPC.

There is also described which one are easy and which one are hard. Just avoid dangerous/deadly/elite.
Play with competents, harmless, and then they will be easy.

If you are trying to get ELITE Anaconda, what we can call a 'boss' in that game, or other ELITE NPC then do not be surprised they are requiring.
They are, and they shoudl.

So simple. Blaze Your own trial. You have a choice now.
 
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What? yeah play your way.
No one is forced into combat.
When did some trading this morning I did not get into any combat. I got interdicted but I managed to get out fine.

Its play your way in the elite universe , and anyway does the adaptive AI not sound good? it means I get my hard AI , and you get your easier AI.
Win/win right.

And you are calling yourself edison trent... from freelancer the game that 90% of the plot line was combat? harder combat than most of what elite dangerous 2.0 gave you. and the trading in freelancer was a joke anyway because the prices were fixed and the universe was not open , just an ilusion

Read my posts, i'm not combat averse or complaining about the AI, i am just asking if they truely think everything should stay at max difficulty so only those that can learn good combat can play.
 
Today my luck has been better and I haven't run into any particularly absurdly equipped NPCs. The new AI, when not cheating, is a joy to play against. I have sunk a couple Condas today - with bruises - seems they can finally put up a fight. I imagine a swarm of Eagles would be a genuine threat to a heavier ship.
 
Dear developers!
Please do not change anything. This is now really the right balance in the game. There are places secure, there are places "average", there is a place to truly dangerous. So it should be. I was waiting for that balance on the first day of alpha-test.
Many thanks!
 
Read my posts, i'm not combat averse or complaining about the AI, i am just asking if they truely think everything should stay at max difficulty so only those that can learn good combat can play.
Right , that makes sens.
But I have been playing as much as I can and the lower rank NPC are uber easy , the mid ranks ones decent and the high rank ones intresting to fight.
It ballanced in my opinion.

And if they add the dynamic scale thing at least everyone gets what they want
 
The problem is the AI cheats. It can always react faster than you because it knows instantly what buttons your pressing. That and they need to reduce the amount of NPCs with engineer equipment.
 
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Dear developers!
Please do not change anything. This is now really the right balance in the game. There are places secure, there are places "average", there is a place to truly dangerous. So it should be. I was waiting for that balance on the first day of alpha-test.
Many thanks!

crossposting

"I haven't been hit by a car, therefore, car accidents don't occur!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr8ljCGxQSU

(that's a railgun, not a laser)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZN_yZ07-18

Just because your luck has held so far and you haven't run into the ships piloted by omnipotent demigods doesn't mean everyone else has had the same experience. A large portion of the game is fundamentally "broken" when NPCs like this have the run of the place.

emphasis on "I haven't been hit by a car, therefore, car accidents don't occur!"
 
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Dear developers!
Please do not change anything. This is now really the right balance in the game. There are places secure, there are places "average", there is a place to truly dangerous. So it should be. I was waiting for that balance on the first day of alpha-test.
Many thanks!
I agree without , but... sadly so many seem to hate it.
So maybe the dynamic AI is the solution , afterall as long as its hard for those who want it and easy for the rest its win/win right?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The problem is the AI cheats. It can always react faster than you because it knows instantly what buttons your pressing. That and they need to reduce the amount of NPCs with engineer equipment.
Thats not true. SJA told us many times the AI does not cheat.
 
New to game managed to buy a T6 for trading after having a Cobra for Bounty hunting---tonight got interdicted 4 times in 90 mins of play-- shields completely gone in 5 seconds thrusters same had to learn to run---not an easy decision but managed to make it out.
I think the new level of difficulty is extreme and I would like to see a rated system that matches AI to player and the Killer AI limited to HighRez/conflict zones BUT also would like to see a system where the player levels have to be "renewed" that is an Elite Cmdr before game changes has to prove themselves after extreme changes by re-qualifying the level
 
But AI which changes difficulty depending on how much you suck wouldn't work well and it would be open to abuse. Plus it would be strange.
 
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Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts. :)

Glad to see you weighing in Sarah, as always you're very pragmatic in your approach.

Having them scale would likely solve the majority of issues and would offer some realism too. When I see targets flee, I do get a little jostle from remorse that makes me reconsider their demise - likewise, when someone fights harder, so too do I. So it needn't even be considered a "gamifaction" of reality.
 
I agree without , but... sadly so many seem to hate it.
So maybe the dynamic AI is the solution , afterall as long as its hard for those who want it and easy for the rest its win/win right?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Thats not true. SJA told us many times the AI does not cheat.



I disagree - very strongly might I add... The reason for that is - Adaptive AI doesn't give you any sort of feeling of achievement - it just rewards you regardless of your skill. It is exactly what is wrong with most games today....

Reward for the sake of reward is meaningless. There needs to be some way to measure or else centimeter can as well be an inch and monkeys can rule the earth....
 
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