Discuss the AI here!
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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verminstar
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Seeing a lot of less experienced players being attacked now with ad hominem insults. Appears this forum is actually quite a toxic place which contradicts my feelings over the last few weeks...would appear that the art of trolling new players is alive and well in this game. Troll all ye want with yer childish little elitist rants...fairly obvious that this game is not new player friendly. I shall stick with my opinion that if combat is out of the question for x amount months until I "adapt", then I will almost certainly get bored and wander off to some other game and leave the pros and the elite snobs to their own private playground. What I'm seeing here on this thread are a number of players holding the door open with little or no regard or thought for those of us who are seriously struggling.
I had hoped to find a better community...sadly it appears my search continues ^^
I had hoped to find a better community...sadly it appears my search continues ^^
I am loving the new AI - finally a challenge! I just took on 3 NPC Eagles and an ASP in my Anaconda and they nearly got my shields down!!
The AI needs to stay right where it is. Mostly because anything lower would kill the fun for +65% of the players. But also because much of the current feedback is based on a lack of engi upgrades. And Engi upgrades are MASSIVE, possibly overpowered even. We debated this ad nauseum in the Beta and 80% of players who had experience the full features of Beta (including engi upgrades) always came to the same conclusion. The current AI is the sweet spot.
The economic incentives however, may need to be relooked at. So far it doesn't sound like people are losing money. But maybe there aren't making enough on average. They are certainly having a ton of fun though, and once they get Engi Upgrades, then the money will start rolling in again.So any premature CR/kill increase would have to be nerfed again in a month or two.
65% huh? Did you ask every single player in the game and ask them if it would hurt the fun? No you didn't, stop making up numbers to make it in your favor. That's for government and politics, not video games.
That's what this is, a video game and video games are supposed to be fun. If I wanted to be punished for being lazy then I would go run 10 miles. If I wanted to have fun and escape reality I would want to play a game. FD has to be smart about this and not just cater to one group or they'll never see their 10 year plan. I got 2 friends who I'm trying to get to play the game and they're not having a good time because of how difficult it is. That's not a good sign if you guys want to see this game continue on. And for those that say don't change a thing because it's what "I" want and "I'm" ok with it....are a bunch of one ways. I don't think FD wants to make a game JUST for you. If so, then give my money back.
There may be a need to look at what is spawning and when, but "scaling back" sounds an awful lot like "put it back the way it was". Pretty sure that's a step backwards.
And with time many in that 34% will join the rest. Only a third being upset at launch is actually quite low, and so far the poll suggest they kinda hit a sweetspot already. Honestly had expected way, way more outrage.
Btw, what happened to our tradition of picking one tiny change and going ape? Where is the rage about the size of the clock or something like it? Times are changin' round here...
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its kinda the point of a poll to get that percentage, you know...
Whatever they do to accommodate less skilled and new players, I hope at very least that they keep the difficulty in the higher risk extraction sites (Hazardous and High). I can live with easy AI in supercruise/interdictions.
Heck I can even live with it if they further spell out the difficulty for people;
• Easy Difficulty Extraction Site
• Medium Difficulty Extraction Site
• Hard Difficulty Extraction Site
• Very Hard Difficulty Hard Extraction
Can also be applied to signal sources, combat zones, etc.
Heck I can even live with it if they further spell out the difficulty for people;
• Easy Difficulty Extraction Site
• Medium Difficulty Extraction Site
• Hard Difficulty Extraction Site
• Very Hard Difficulty Hard Extraction
Can also be applied to signal sources, combat zones, etc.
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I am sorry but the in game combat rank means squat. As for the cargo missions, many pay out a hell of a lot more than they used to. Besides, if you are hauling cargo why on earth stay to fight, your fit cannot be optimal for combat.
Eeee, maybe You should drink a weaker coffee
Less of the net, more of the life, fresh air.But this is fact - current games are too easy, they leading players by a hand, fps have auto aims, almost unlimited heath, map is almost straight line and a lot of cutscenes when you can press A or B.
These games are intelectual lowland, and good Elite becomes more requiring and playing and winning will give more satisfaction.
Pushin i-win button is not satisfying, even for childrens. It is just boring. Even my four years old doughter like if something is more requiring.
When we play a ball, she is moving far when he everytime can catch a ball and she do not move closer if she can't. She is trying until she start catching.
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Since the 2.1 update launched yesterday I find the AI a bit odd. Firstly, they are better in terms of being able to kill you but the fighting has now just turned into tight rolls around each other. It's not exactly fun.
I attacked a master python yesterday and was quite surprised when it managed to knock my shields down so quickly and left me at 70% hull, no shields and a broken canopy. Whilst I do like a good challenge it is quite a major change from what it used to be and to be honest I find it a bit over the top the other way now. I'm flying a python myself.
I'm not the best pilot by any means but just circling round each other is the worst new feature of AI IMO.
I attacked a master python yesterday and was quite surprised when it managed to knock my shields down so quickly and left me at 70% hull, no shields and a broken canopy. Whilst I do like a good challenge it is quite a major change from what it used to be and to be honest I find it a bit over the top the other way now. I'm flying a python myself.
I'm not the best pilot by any means but just circling round each other is the worst new feature of AI IMO.
I am running scared in my FAS... , nearly got killed twice just on the trek to visit him hehe
My first engineer wants me to get some bounties... I am not going out there
Need bounties to get mods to get bounties. Hmm. A challenge. Sounds like, err, fun. I believe in you.
I have readed here about a folk who was angry because the clock is showing galaxy time, not his local time
I am appalled. You just completely wrote off all the women that play.
I have to reply here because the original thread was locked.
I mentioned being interdicted on each of the four missions that I had undertaken with my second commander account (I am reserving my main commander at the moment). This commander is only a "Master" combat ranking yet I had two Elite and two Deadly NPCs interdict my Asp. They were an Anaconda, Python, Asp and Viper and I was subjected to two modded attacks, an impulse attack and a thermal (heat build-up warning) attack. All of these were trading missions and all below my trading rank and in federation systems that I think are "secure" (if that is the right term).
So that should put to rest the argument that "you should not take on missions above your rank" - thank you.
It does not appear that any scaling of NPC combat rating to player rating is being implemented and the prevalence of NPCs with modded systems makes a mockery of the fact that engineers are only just introduced and the idea that mods were supposed to be rare. It now looks like they will be ubiquitous on NPCs and so make it untenable for traders and explorers and non-Horizons players to pursue their pre-existing games, only pew-pew fanatics who traipse around engineers will enjoy this new game.
(P.S. Yes I did manage to survive each encounter so please leave any "git gud" responses in your handbags.
That doesn't sound particularly fun. If I wanted to fight opponents as good as actual people, I'd fight actual people.
I'm not willing to have a month of exploration data destroyed by a game balancing experiment. So I think I'll be leaving my asp out in the black, and my cmdr logged out indefinitely.
I was spending too much time on ED anyway.
Exactly! This was the pattern in beta.
People called for a nerf of NPCs, then people got nerfs. Next frontier released the full fury of Engineer Mods, and suddenly 80 % of people were shouting the NPCs were TOO WEAK. Too dumb. Etc. So now here we are again with the same good NPCs and without engi mods, and people are calling for premature nerfs.
Give it time folks. Let the dust settle. Start in on your Engi mods. And then come back in a month or two and post about how you love the AI.
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I totally agree. Yes you can kill the NPCs now but it's dull: just a long war of attrition.
Apologies up front if this is a bit of a ramble.
My personal opinion is that 99% of people playing this game do not want to have their hand held through the entire game and be served easy kills on a plate.
But many players, especially those just starting out, want a challenge that meets their current level of ability. That means early on (close to their spawning system) they need to have opponents they can at least have a decent dogfight with, not one that will blow them away in under a minute. It's great to meet an NPC that is that little bit above your current ability and that isn't an issue, but when you don't have the credits yet to upgrade your ship and you keep having to rebuy it and lose money in cargo costs, it causes a lot of frustration.
I personally think the level of NPC AI is pretty good, but in my opinion it would be better if the higher level AI appeared less frequently in open space and more frequently in maybe Anarchy systems or hazardous/high RES.
BTW, I'm not whining. I just think that there should be some way of allowing players to gain experience and skill before throwing them to the lions. Maybe players should spawn in a restricted area of the universe where they only meet NPCs up to a certain level until they themselves reach a particular combat level. We want to encourage more people to play, and that comes from combat that doesn't appear impossible and the feeling of progression.
Many of us have benefited from poor AI opponents in our early days and are better equipped to deal with tougher opponents because we've been able to earn money and buy better ships/equipment. People joining now and not experiencing that easier AI, may well find it a little too challenging and frustrating at the moment.
It doesn't help anyone to just tell them to better equip their ships and learn to fight better. They know that already and it just put people off posting their experiences and views.
Looking forward to getting back in the saddle tonight after being a victim last night. I'll try damn hard not to let it happen again. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
My personal opinion is that 99% of people playing this game do not want to have their hand held through the entire game and be served easy kills on a plate.
But many players, especially those just starting out, want a challenge that meets their current level of ability. That means early on (close to their spawning system) they need to have opponents they can at least have a decent dogfight with, not one that will blow them away in under a minute. It's great to meet an NPC that is that little bit above your current ability and that isn't an issue, but when you don't have the credits yet to upgrade your ship and you keep having to rebuy it and lose money in cargo costs, it causes a lot of frustration.
I personally think the level of NPC AI is pretty good, but in my opinion it would be better if the higher level AI appeared less frequently in open space and more frequently in maybe Anarchy systems or hazardous/high RES.
BTW, I'm not whining. I just think that there should be some way of allowing players to gain experience and skill before throwing them to the lions. Maybe players should spawn in a restricted area of the universe where they only meet NPCs up to a certain level until they themselves reach a particular combat level. We want to encourage more people to play, and that comes from combat that doesn't appear impossible and the feeling of progression.
Many of us have benefited from poor AI opponents in our early days and are better equipped to deal with tougher opponents because we've been able to earn money and buy better ships/equipment. People joining now and not experiencing that easier AI, may well find it a little too challenging and frustrating at the moment.
It doesn't help anyone to just tell them to better equip their ships and learn to fight better. They know that already and it just put people off posting their experiences and views.
Looking forward to getting back in the saddle tonight after being a victim last night. I'll try damn hard not to let it happen again. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
AI is a tight rope walk.
As it gets better, it can begin to lock out the left hand side of the normally distributed curve.
The nice part of this game is that you can escape fairly easily from most NPC's by hyperjumping...and the lower ranked NPC's should still be roughly similar to what we had in the past. In short, learning to properly identify your attacker is now much more important...and what to do when you immediately realize you are outgunned.
As it gets better, it can begin to lock out the left hand side of the normally distributed curve.
The nice part of this game is that you can escape fairly easily from most NPC's by hyperjumping...and the lower ranked NPC's should still be roughly similar to what we had in the past. In short, learning to properly identify your attacker is now much more important...and what to do when you immediately realize you are outgunned.
So, flying a python you are surprised another python gave you pause for thought; good, it should, the flaw is assuming it should not. A number of players have become lazy, they expect to spend a few credits and become immune to risk from the AI. The AI tend to fly with better fits than many players, who fit nothing but turrets and gimballed weapons and expect to compete with fixed rails, plasma accelerators et al.
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