Discuss the AI here!

[Rankaze]

Except that is kind of the point of the game. It's like telling me that having a 1/3 chance of blowing up is an invalid argument because the chance is higher than that in other games. So what! This isn't other games. You play a game with a certain set of expectations. Whether you keep playing depends on whether the game meets those expectations. if I expect a game to be super hard, I'll probably be disappointed when it's not. If I expect to die a lot, I'm not going to get as frustrated when I do.

From the way this game was described going all the way back before Beta, flying in mid-sec and low-sec systems was always supposed to be a risky proposition. Unfortunately, the AI didn't live up to that before. Now it does.

That said: I do think there IS one major flaw right now, and it's something Kremmen pointed out in the beta.

The galaxy map does not effectively communicate system security level.

That needs to be fixed. If you're going into a dangerous place, you should know it.

The AI, though, is fine.

 

[Mark Lock]

the new AI difficulty would be ok if they didn't change how aggressively you get interdicted in systems doing missions, now it is impossible to interdict a mission target or drop from sc without getting an Anaconda right on you, I think they screwed up the game a lot like this, also considering the time it takes to find mission targets and the time taken to kill them, mission rewards are the same.

Not everybody has hours to spend just for one mission and risk a 4M Cr. insurance to earn 300k Cr. AI difficulty should stay as it is now but you should not find Anacondas spawning on you or interdicting you all the time, as they are now Missions are a massive waste of time and not fun at all considering the time it takes, I spent 1 hour in SC, only found 3 target ships, killed one and then I got interdicted and stalked by an Anaconda for 30 minutes, interdicted 3 times while trying to interdict target ships, got another kill that didn't get counted for some reason, the third ship run away at half armour , I got bored and closed the game wondering why the new update screwed up the game and instead of making it more fun, it made it more grindy since probably the most viable way to earn Cr. is to farm at res sites, even more than before

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

why assume they arent having fun doing that? its as if you think only what you find to be fun is fun and everything else is boring. im not into cricket or snooker and i find bridge to be mind numbingly tedious - but i dont expect the world to ban those activities any more than i expect them to completely remove what you like. but i dont expect to have it all my own way. there is something called the middle ground.

But game is not real world. It is designed by certain people, backed by certain people, who are looking for certain blueprint of the game. It is not 'everyone's happy' game.

 

[C. Vektra]

:O Upsetting? I lost my (one loaded and one empty) Pythons (ins cca 4.5mil. each) right after update, no chance even get NPC in view. That is not fun at all, I'm not really great in fighting, but it has been a while I got destroyed by NPC, especially with no load. Now I have no idea how I'm going to continue my mining.

My suggestion: it would be fair to make AI equal to individual players lvl, that way it would be playable and challenging for everybody, but that is just me...

A good suggestion, but I reached Elite combat rank long ago. I now need to work on Exploration and Trade. Trade is doable in a Corvette, Cutter and Anaconda - all have good defense capabilities. But I can just imagine explorers coming back from the Core, with loads of data, being wrecked as they are about to return and cash in (by an Eagle of all things!). As I mentionned, I do enjoy the new AI's if I'm in a fighter... but this doesn't really make the other play styles viable.

 

[Rankaze]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=255155

I forgot about this hub thread, so if you want to see what I think the new AI means for Solo play, read my link. (It's locked though, so if you want to respond you'll have to do so here. )

I can't rep your original post, so I repped this one.

 

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Squatting mindless suicidal NPCs is good, fun and interesting for you then?

Well, I find Powerplay interesting more in the teamwork and coordination than the actual in-game work (hauling merits is a slog).

Bounty hunting was fun yes. I'm not sure I'll be able to really do much of that anymore. Certainly not in HazRES. Maybe in HIRES where the police can help, something I was trying to get away from, but is apparently a crux I'll have to lean on again if I want to do that.

 

[verminstar]

Well, lots of people are having much more fun NOW. Are they wrong?

You tell me...yer the one says everyone else is wrong ^^

 

[The_Texorcist]

I was just telling my wife how much I liked this community, and then this happens. Most of y'all are bickering like little children over a new toy. Have some common decency as human beings, see that people have points, they feel the way they do for a reason. It is not because they are an elitist, or a farmer. This is a game, and meant to be enjoyed a variety of ways. Find the common answer and quit assuming that yours in the only answer.

It is a game. A game. Respect each other.

 

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Well, lots of people are having much more fun NOW. Are they wrong?

No, they aren't wrong. The question is whether a few are having more fun at the expensive of the many who are having less fun.

 

[Nalessa]

Mainly trader with some exploring done, have novice rank in combat only, got interdicted by a master level npc, no chance at all to fight him and even when boosting away he's faster then my unladen asp explorer (that has decent upgrades) ... this is a load of stuff.

Keep the new ai for actual combat areas, and have the old one for open space so people who don't care about fighting but enjoy flying through space and trading/exploring aren't put against enemies.

 

[Rankaze]

I was just telling my wife how much I liked this community, and then this happens. Most of y'all are bickering like little children over a new toy. Have some common decency as human beings, see that people have points, they feel the way they do for a reason. It is not because they are an elitist, or a farmer. This is a game, and meant to be enjoyed a variety of ways. Find the common answer and quit assuming that yours in the only answer.

It is a game. A game. Respect each other.

Folks will chill out in time. The day after a big change on a forum like this is always contentious, even in the best of communities.

To be honest, I can understand why so many players are upset even though I don't agree with them. The game just gave a pretty harsh wake-up call to the players that things aren't gonna be the same as they were. In some cases, that wake-up call came in the form of a brutal defeat and massive credit loss. People are going to get upset about that, and their initial reactions are going to be highly emotional.

Heck, if I hadn't read the beta forums and had waded into a HAZRES with my FdL and gotten blown out of space, I might have been mad, too!

But because I did happen to read the beta forums, and therefore knew what I was in for, I eased myself into the pirahna-infested pool and I had a great time.

Just because I think the people who are saying the AI is too hard are misguided doesn't mean I don't understand why they feel that way. It's why I've been trying to sprinkle bits of advice for how to deal with the new AI into my posts.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

But game is not real world. It is designed by certain people, backed by certain people, who are looking for certain blueprint of the game. It is not 'everyone's happy' game.

granted, but how will anyone play if player numbers drop so low that its unviable to fund the servers let alone develop it? its a compromise. i would rather have some AI improvement but not to the point it drives away players. however i still think its too soon for a fully rounded judgement. some people are having very bad experiences due to the changes and are posting in the after effects. but its ok to state initial impressions.

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

There appears to be a slightly higher majority liking the new AI vs; people who don't like it.


Here's my question for those who do like it; Are the rest of our concerns just not valid? Should we have absolutely no say in how the game that we are also playing be enjoyed?


Answer this, please.

 

[xondk]

Give it time, is what I think, yeah, a lot has changed, and the AI is harder, but this is day 1, people complaining right now because it wasn't like before the patch, doesn't really indicate to me that it actually is too hard, more that it is harder and people don't like it being so.

 

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Give it time, is what I think, yeah, a lot has changed, and the AI is harder, but this is day 1, people complaining right now because it wasn't like before the patch, doesn't really indicate to me that it actually is too hard, more that it is harder and people don't like it being so.

I dunno. I'm still sour over interdictions. I just don't really complain anymore because they're not going to change them at this point.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

The AI is too hard. Good luck farming 5k merits a week when it takes 5 minutes to kill one ship now. Normally I could farm 1000 merits in an hour, now it's taken me 1.5 hours to do 300. The constant bounty hunters chasing you down while you're engaging a powerplay ship, or cops dropping in to kill you, it's now too hard to farm the 5k. I'll have to play all day long to get my cap for the week.

And kiss my [edited out this users swear] if you think I'm whining. I don't live with my parents. I don't have 18 hours a day to play like some hardcore mmo players. I am married and I have kids. I'm a totally different player than most ED players, and the changes now make is [edited out this users swear] to farm on my limited time.

If you think the AI is just right then go farm your 5k/10k merits for the week and see how fun it is now.

Thank you.. With this post you just showed why the stronger AI was needed. PP should never have been rank 5 for a couple hours of grinding. It should have been something to strive to but was to easy to do before. PP might mean something now that it has to be earned instead of being spoonfed

 

[xondk]

I dunno. I'm still sour over interdictions. I just don't really complain anymore because they're not going to change them at this point.

The interdictions? which specific part? this was about general ai no? referring to the police forces and such?

 

[Cybrdroyd]

There appears to be a slightly higher majority liking the new AI vs; people who don't like it.


Here's my question for those who do like it; Are the rest of our concerns just not valid? Should we have absolutely no say in how the game that we are also playing be enjoyed?


Answer this, please.

To me this is like saying you have a bunch of wolves and sheep voting on what we're having for dinner, but the wolves outnumber the sheep, so      the sheep. I won't argue that the number of players liking the AI outnumber the ones that don't. However, 38% of the gamer base who hate it is no small figure. I feel that FD could compromise in some way so that both camps can be happy, and everyone gets what they want. They just need to figure out a way to do that. Its unacceptable to just say to the people that aren't happy to just git gud or shove off, nobody cares.

 

[frostypaw]

granted, but how will anyone play if player numbers drop so low that its unviable to fund the servers let alone develop it? its a compromise. i would rather have some AI improvement but not to the point it drives away players. however i still think its too soon for a fully rounded judgement. some people are having very bad experiences due to the changes and are posting in the after effects. but its ok to state initial impressions.

More fantasy imaginary predictions based on zero fact whatsoever.

As demonstrated already - there are FOUR of the D...Souls games - many people love REALLY HARD games.

This isn't a REALLY HARD game - it's a tough game where you have to learn how to stay alive. Get some perspective, the sky is not falling - you're just finding it tough.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Given that the NPC AI has been ramped up for combat, I think that the rewards for combat should be increased to compensate for the higher difficulty compared to pre-1.6 - they need to be worth the increased risk or repairs or rebuys.


e.g. Combat Bonds for fighting in Conflict Zones should be worth more, as should Bounties for patrolling a RES. (If they already are, then great!)


Combat shouldn't be nerfed as a means of making a living in-game. It shouldn't be so much harder to make good money from it that it drives people to avoid combat - or the game itself - altogether.


I also think that the combat ranking system should be adjusted to account for the increased difficulty. It is now going to be a lot harder to reach Combat Elite than it was before 1.6, and that does not seem to me to be remotely fair for new players or for any existing players who aren't yet Combat Elite.




So... AI NPC combat skill doesn't need to be knocked back down again, but with increased risk and difficulty there should be increased rewards...