Discuss the AI here!

[Deleted member 110222]

At times like this, I'm glad I'm only competent.

I do think it would be wise for FD to offer a one-time reset of your combat rank, so you get the lower ranked enemies.

Just my opinion mind.

 

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Tone down how trigger happy pirates are. I just lost two type 7s in under an hour, and am ready to quite the game for a good long time because of it. Playing a trading career was borderline unfun as it was, but this just takes the cake, as each time I was interdicted, they demanded cargo, opened fire right away before I could drop it, and didn't stop firing once I had. Make NPC pirates please start with a warning shot, give more time to drop cargo, and cease fire if it is being dropped. I'm sick of getting my ship melted out from under me with out any hope of preventing it. I'm making virtually no profit anymore since I keep dying each time I make back the rebuy cost. I can't even imagine how it must be for a type 9 driver.

But didn't you read? Losing money while getting exploded is what makes the game FUN [wink]

 

[Rankaze]

And 10% think it's too easy

The rest are somewhere in between.

The biggest reason people think it's too hard is because they don't have engineer upgrades. If Frontier hadn't blocked access to the fast engines with bugs on the availability of Soontil relics, then people would too busy zooming around in Eagles to care about NPCs.

This is also true! Gotta get me some Enhanced Thrusters for my Courier so I can get my speed rush.

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But didn't you read? Losing money while getting exploded is what makes the game FUN [wink]

No, but overcoming the danger, surviving, and knowing you earned the credits you bring home... that's what makes the game fun.

 

[Mar Ba Oclan]

my own idea is, tweak the ai back down a bit for solo and open if players who like open want. the gamer snobs should be offered a special account where the AI they will face is always much more challenging. you can explain it by saying they have gained a certain reputation for being much more skilled at combat, there are rumours about them in pilots federation, in the bars of stations and outposts - and this leads others (npcs) with high skill to challenge them constantly. they get their arcade game space invaders on steroids and the rest of us get a game we can enjoy when we have time.

Well Said. My Son said almost the same thing to me earlier. Offer a 'Dangerous' version of open unlocked by achieving an elite rank.

 

[verminstar]

Just about everyone here is giving the perspective of players who have been here some time...some since the beginning. That's good, it's a healthy forum...a rare thing indeed in the world.

Just fer once, try and see the point of view of someone who has been here less than 2 weeks.

Shaky start...worked through it. I love a good challenge and I've been playing games a long time...long enough to have been a teenager when the original elite came out.

Two weeks...and what exists right now ingame is not even remotely fun and nor is the prospect of working the hard way to get to within spitting distance of the strongest players here. Even with my love of a challenge, what am I realistically looking at here? How many months of frustration do you guys reckon it will take me?

Perhaps my opinion would differ somewhat were I myself a veteran...but I'm not...and at this rate will never be. So why keep trying to climb the wall when it's made of ice and covered in grease?

Took me all week to where I am now, and I'm rapidly approaching bankruptcy just trying to move around.

Maybe I'm just not hardcore enough...but the prospect of another wipe and fresh start is really not an appealing one.

So pause and take a moment to reflect...how must this game be to a 2 week old greenback when long time vets are having issues?

Just to put things into perspective ^^

 

[hobbesmaster]

What is the game's target for credits per hour for combat related tasks? How long is it supposed to take to repay the insurance on a ship? How long is it supposed to take to get the credits to upgrade a ship?

The problem with the "risk" right now is the massive time penalty. Elite: Dangerous does not expect you to die very much. Ships able to do prolonged combat have insurance rebuys on the order of 3-4 hours of combat. That means that the death penalty in this game is up to 4 hours per death; more if you die with time on your ship (i.e., bounties, cargo, exploration data - in the last case the penalty is literally months). Its fine if you want to design a game where you die all the time - penalties in first person shooters are on the order of seconds to a minute or two. MMOs are mostly a couple minutes. Eve is the only game I can think of right now that has anything this severe and even then its mitigated because of the enormous amounts of money you and your alliance make in the deadliest areas.

 

[Dozer.k.a.o.]

I come from answering this in another forum.

Will repeat here.. one day and already a poll, i hope frontier keeps this without changes for some months... people is lazy to learn or to adapt, they just want to do the same they did yesterday, and then ask for new content... this is new content.. this force players to search for new ways to play and to adapt to improve their skills, and think twice about their decisions.

And time will tell.

 

[zz9pa]

To all the people saying it ok now...
I had a *fully* armoured FAS, a ship described as "Heavy Fighter" - with shields and shield boosters - against a python, a ship described as a "Heavy Multipurpose".

I'm not new to the game, I'm combat rank "Dangerous" - and this ship took my shields offline and hull down to 36% - in less than 10 seconds...

That is just not right..



To those saying its fine we should just have less higher rank NPCs - the only way I can get a higher combat rank is fighting higher ranks.
If they are ultra rare - thats not going to happen.
If they are not rare but still practically invincible, and my fully A spec'd ship is apparently made of butter - I cant see that happening either..

 

[RoLnD79]

I've been playing for about a month, and I'm only expert rank. I like the new AI. Before the update, in my A rated FDL. I hardly ever lost shields, and that's without even using any shield cell banks. That was taking on wings of 3, with pythons FGS etc, sometimes I would only lose one ring. Anacondas were the only ships I had to be careful with.

Now it seems they are a lot smarter, they don't just go in a loop letting you stay behind them and pick at them the whole time, and if I get ganged up on, my shields drop a lot faster. I also noticed they use Chaff more frequently. I like it now, it was too easy before, and I'm not even that good or anything, I'm just now getting used to targeting power plants and subsystems. I also finding myself using sys/eng/wep management a lot more during battle. Before the update, I'd just put 4 pips in weapons, and occasionally when I had to maneuver around fast, switch them to engine. Now I switch to sys too when I'm not in postion to fire and getting shot at by multiples. So I like it.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

further to my idea of special accounts available to those who want almost impossible AI and have billions and billions to throw away on constant rebuys; you have to pass competence tests to be accredited by the pilots federation. the pro gamer lobby account can be explained as they passed out in their pilot fed exams with exceptional combat potential, and this is what generates their high encounter rate with high level wings of powerful npc ships. i on the other hand did well but nothing too noteworthy. you could even have this as a choice of history when you create an account - how would you say you did in your combat tests? exceptional or other? and those who do exceptional get the commendation (maybe also with a snazzy paint job for the sidey and a special pilot fed logo) and the extra hostility from the elite npcs...

my other idea is how to solve the slow creep of every normal players combat rank causing attention from npcs that they cant handle just from accumulation of kills. level cap.

you can set your combat rank cap at the level you are comforrtable with and npcs above that rank will literally ignore you. oh they might interdict then target and scan and leave in disgust, but they wont vape you. unless you are dumb enough to attack them first of course then all bets are off.

of course the ones who chose the special commendation dont get to choose a level cap. its set at elite for their account. even if they wipe the save its still set unless they plead with support to remove it. but thats what you guys want right? impossible opponents and infinite deaths?

 

[Terrox]

Prior to 2.1 the AI needed a buff.

Now... Maybe not exactly a nerf but a compromise of pilots choosing their targets better, making sure their fits are up to snuff, promotion of players joining up in wings, and better tactics.

I lost several ships yesterday evening. As frustrated as I was I'm still not wanting to give up. I think this AI change should perhaps boast more teamwork and cooperation of players?

That said, feel free to add me in game. I'll fly along side anyone to teach the new AI who's boss.

-CMDR Terrox

 

[Hammre]

Can you still submit and boost away? I haven't logged in to 2.1 yet, but I'm coming back from Beagle Point with a metric ton of scan data and would like to make it to port I'm in an ASP with A3 Shields but mostly D-rated components for weight considerations.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

With the improved AI for NPCs, I think I may need to revise my Vulture's load-out.

I don't want to go OT in this thread, but if anyone has some ideas perhaps they could pop over to this Vulture load-out thread at some point?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=224902&page=2&p=3960971&viewfull=1#post3960971

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I come from answering this in another forum.

Will repeat here.. one day and already a poll, i hope frontier keeps this without changes for some months... people is lazy to learn or to adapt, they just want to do the same they did yesterday, and then ask for new content... this is new content.. this force players to search for new ways to play and to adapt to improve their skills, and think twice about their decisions.

And time will tell.

i hope they keep the poll up for a week or two at least but not to leave the AI for months. some of the stories here indicate some tweaking is needed sooner than that, but it needs to be left a week to let the emotions settle and get a result from more play than during the harsh lesson period lol.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This problem would go away with NPC wing mates . (just saying)

 

[Spectre-63]

Here's the disconnect, as I see it: combat focused players are happy with the AI changes because it's more of a challenge than what they had before. Trading focused players (like myself, currently) are in a heap of trouble at the moment. Type-9's are unlikely to do well against a reasonably well equipped AI pirate. I ran into two different Cobras last night and each chewed me up and spit me out. The Type-9 isn't going to be able to defend itself well and the 'boost-boost-boost 'n' jump' thing doesn't help when each interdiction drags you 20ls back from your destination...just as it seems you're about to make it, you're interdicted and dragged out again.

Needless to say, part of tonight's gameplay will involve a visit to Diaguandri for a trade-in of the Type-9 so I can move back to a Python. The loss of cargo capacity will hurt, but not as much as the 11-12MCr losses every time AI pirates blast me to bits.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Took two fetch missions in Morrina, got the HT cargo LH 350 and on my way back got interdicted by some npc master pirate in a Python and lost everything. Took the Sidey instead of rebuy, because kicks, adrenalin rush #1


Driving Sidey to Dalton to get a Vulture, was interdicted 3 times by the same master pirate NPC, who is now a Mission Target and Wanted. My leg goin' a mile a minute by now.


Submit, boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost boost - get away. Holy Crapazoids Batgirl!
Repeat 3 times


Get Vulture, tart it up and guess who is camped outside the station? I exit stage-right intersystem.


So interdicted again by this buttmonkey npc. I submit with hopes of a battle. He takes my hull to 45%, my weaps are over loading - AIEEEE


The Cops finally arrive, mayhem ensues, I get the pirate's bounty. Yip Yip!


RTB,. Interdicted by new pirate, my missions have made me a target. ADRENALIN !


Thanks Ms Avory, good job well done.

I voted All right o7

 

[Nistevo]

Having Elite AI play like players is not a problem.

I think the problem is that the low combat rank AI is too strong.

It seems like every AI is a master of FA off and that they keep 4 pips to ENG at all times. The AI manueverability was forcing me to fly in PVE how I fly in PvP. I can easily see why a lot of people think it's too hard.

I guess it's up to FD to figure out whether the AI is forcing players to learn new combat tactics (a good thing) or if the AI is forcing players to avoid combat altogether (a bad thing).

They are not playing like players, remove their mods and they are still fish in a barrel, or get your ship modded against their modded ships & they are still fish in a barrel period

 

[FX2K]

Squatting mindless suicidal NPCs is good, fun and interesting for you then?

Hours of fun.. but each to their own.
Btw, I am glad the AI are finally being fixed, even though I also think they are a bit OP at the moment.

 

[lysan]

snip

-CMDR Terrox

Sorry to hear about that, I hope you get back in the game and experience how fun it can be.
Just one thing to remember, you can't go in guns blazing, that will get you killed asap!

Pick you targets, and then do it. You will see soon will you be mastering the NPCS again.