Discuss the AI here!

[MVP_Bluntman]

I voted that the NPCs are pretty much perfect AI-wise, but what you get for gunning the wanted ones down, that needs immediate change. Just isn't worth what it should be.

That's all I've got to say on the matter. Maybe even buffing the Elite and Deadly ones a bit more so they're really aggressive and stuff.

This, the rewards need tweaking, not the AI's combat ability.

 

[Rankaze]

Question is, has the new AI actually broken the cr/h ratio of players choosing the field of combat to charge their bank accounts?

Because..

If I'm killing ships after a tenuous jousing match that takes 10 minutes to finish for a whopper 34,000cr, then it stands to reason that combat is no longer viable. Combat ceases to be fun when you get nothing out of it, in addition to the way out of whack risk / reward ratio.

I made more money last night than usual. I suspect this is because the new AI is more aggressive; fights end faster one way or the other.

Also possible that the improvement in my cr/hour was do to being inspired by the challenge and fighting harder, or due to switching from gimbaled pulses to fixed ones (the new AI loves it some chaff!)

 

[Soliluna]

NPC's are not supposed to be as difficult as players. Period.

They are though, that's why the game is designed to have the same difficulty throughout modes. That is what FD are trying to create - a believable galaxy to immerse yourself in.

 

[Pumabear8]

I'm not see many say anything about interdiction where there's no time to run or fight, and I think that's the main issue here, if I turn for a fight and do badly, then I expect to get my       kicked, but what is not acceptable to me is a no win situation no matter what your skills are, in RES zones I do ok, learned to pick my fights, but when you're interdicted and wiped out in seconds, what are you supposed to do, neither running or fighting is an option.

 

[James Razor]

Of course they are, keep range and you can see the bloody things coming a mile off, fly fa off, use lateral thrusters; you do use lateral thrusters with FA off, no? If they close in, get in behind them where their fixed weapons cannot hit you, weapon D O D G E D.

It is not rocket science, the ai have a hell of a time hitting with fixed weapons if you are not flying a straight path, its a huge flaw, they are not able to predict where they should shoot.

Get behind them... good luck doing that in a Cutter^^

As i said, post a VIDEO. Otherwise i am not interessted in your bragging.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

I just got killed in my trade python, by an Elite Python NPC pirate.


Lessons...


1. If you've got 4 SCBs on board, remember to use them. Hell, remember to use one of them.

2. Ramming a ship of equal (or likely greater) mass is bad. Especially when your shields are down, and your hull is damaged. And when you are both flying towards each other at speed.

3. If you're carrying 24 superconductors that are unique to a delivery mission, perhaps it might have been wiser to not let the hostile Python interdict you. It's not like the ED universe is running low on NPCs; go find one after the mission, and kill that. Just deliver the damn cargo.


This really was a golden opportunity for a bounty kill. It spammed dumbfires at me, most of which missed, as a bit of lateral thrust slid me neatly out of its firing line. I just had to go and nose-butt him in the forehead, didn't I. No HRPs in this ship - cargo racks.

Sigh.

 

[xdeath]

But, as a word of friendly advice, pick your battles.

Except, you can't. That's the thing. HazRES seems to be following me into regular space and low threat signal sources, and since they are good at giving chase I'm just plain dying most of the time. This was brought up in Beta as well.

 

[Soliluna]

When the game's still going next Spring, will you admit to being completely wrong?

Corrected that for you Marra

 

[Arvel Yael]

The AI is so RIDICULOUSLY now, even worse than before...

[lots of amusing anecdotes]

And kill rewards are still the same as pre-patch. The logic is void.

This made me giggle a lot. Have some Rep .

Question is, has the new AI actually broken the cr/h ratio of players choosing the field of combat to charge their bank accounts?

Because..

If I'm killing ships after a tenuous jousing match that takes 10 minutes to finish for a whopper 34,000cr, then it stands to reason that combat is no longer viable. Combat ceases to be fun when you get nothing out of it, in addition to the way out of whack risk / reward ratio.

THIS.

 

[Ini]

AI is good now, we bought Elite: Dangerous, not Elite:Casual

 

[Sans Daring]

Well whatever Fdev decides im sure it will be towards the vocal minority, as it always is. We've been preaching, scratching for better AI since 1.3, but instead we're gonna get the shaft. I give up.

I would suspect the vocal minority sit in the forums, these are the "Elite" players to some degree, with interest enough to post, hours of time added in, and experience. The vocal minority are the ones who wanted an AI that would tax their growing skillsets. And given they are critical to the game in their dedication and money, that's not an unfair request. I think it would be a mistake to presume those who will find the AI harder, are not a minority, but a quiet, less invested, majority, but the majority I suspect will play a lot less, and in lower class ships, doing easier missions with a lot less to lose on a rebuy.

I don't get the impression SJA is looking to make any climb down regardless. It'll be a matter of a little balancing and maybe more patience on the top-end players to give tips rather than judgement to those who are struggling and very frustrated.

Majority in any product pool are never the Elite, that's why the Elite are, by definition, the Elite.

 

[Pumabear8]

OFC you can, I just ran like a little girl from two Elite Vultures in my Python, so that is not true, also ran from other ships in me clipper today so ofc you can run away.

Mines are good to have now, they keep the buggers away from you.
Point defense are good to have, keep missiles away from you.

Two Vultures? ha ha, I'm talking about a heavily armed Anaconda that didn't even give me that choice, my shields were gone moments after dropping to normal space, then my FSD, if I'd turned to fight, wipe out, running away, wipe out, this is not an exaggeration, I've got 100s of hours in this game, I know how to pick my fights, but when they're picked for you by an OP AI, any choices are removed.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

I would suspect the vocal minority sit in the forums, these are the "Elite" players to some degree, with interest enough to post, hours of time added in, and experience. The vocal minority are the ones who wanted an AI that would tax their growing skillsets. And given they are critical to the game in their dedication and money, that's not an unfair request. I think it would be a mistake to presume those who will find the AI harder, are not a minority, but a quiet, less invested, majority, but the majority I suspect will play a lot less, and in lower class ships, doing easier missions with a lot less to lose on a rebuy.

I don't get the impression SJA is looking to make any climb down regardless. It'll be a matter of a little balancing and maybe more patience on the top-end players to give tips rather than judgement to those who are struggling and very frustrated.

Majority in any product pool are never the Elite, that's why the Elite are, by definition, the Elite.

dont forget time, especially when under 24 hours after the latest patch releases. Way way WAY too early for the "AI is too tough" complaints.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I'm not see many say anything about interdiction where there's no time to run or fight, and I think that's the main issue here, if I turn for a fight and do badly, then I expect to get my kicked, but what is not acceptable to me is a no win situation no matter what your skills are, in RES zones I do ok, learned to pick my fights, but when you're interdicted and wiped out in seconds, what are you supposed to do, neither running or fighting is an option.

Well, I never expierenced that in all the many hours I spend in the Beta, so not really sure what people talking about there.

 

[JCB Digger]

I've just been interdicted in my ASP and blown out of the sky by a completely overpowered Imperial Eagle - but for what? I have no active bounties and was carrying        all..

I'd love to get to the engineers to 'pimp my ride', but I can't get anywhere without being interdicted..

HATE THE NEW AI :-(

 

[Hondo Malistar]

Powerplay AI, yep . . . nup not gonna happen,
Bounty hunting . . . and be killed by sidewinders everywhere, nup
Missions, require Fleet of FDL to take out a Cobra MkIII, sorry I'm in Australia and Fleets don't work because the instances don't match . . .
Cargo runs, hmmm has potential, got enough for a Python, not an anaconda, might have to wait

Those rocks look kinda safe but one of them is eyeing me strange . . . . run its a trap . . .

Sorry, insane AI tat has Perfect Interdiction, enhanced performance and they suicide ram, nice patch.

 

[Karla]

Since the 2.1 update launched yesterday I find the AI a bit odd. Firstly, they are better in terms of being able to kill you but the fighting has now just turned into tight rolls around each other. It's not exactly fun.
I attacked a master python yesterday and was quite surprised when it managed to knock my shields down so quickly and left me at 70% hull, no shields and a broken canopy. Whilst I do like a good challenge it is quite a major change from what it used to be and to be honest I find it a bit over the top the other way now. I'm flying a python myself.

I'm not the best pilot by any means but just circling round each other is the worst new feature of AI IMO.

But isn't that what combat always is? Trying to get the enemy in front of your sights without being in front of theirs? Even with jousting and reversing with FA off, it's still about maximising your hits and minimising your opponent's.

 

[shadragon]

Question is, has the new AI actually broken the cr/h ratio of players choosing the field of combat to charge their bank accounts?

Because..

If I'm killing ships after a tenuous jousing match that takes 10 minutes to finish for a whopper 34,000cr, then it stands to reason that combat is no longer viable. Combat ceases to be fun when you get nothing out of it, in addition to the way out of whack risk / reward ratio.

Any E: D player who does only combat will be thrilled with the new AI changes.

Any E: D player who wants to grind cash by BH'ing will be disappointed as it's no longer a cash machine. And I'm fine with that. Maybe they'll have to do something else for a change.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Get behind them... good luck doing that in a Cutter^^

As i said, post a VIDEO. Otherwise i am not interessted in your bragging.

Lmao why would I care about someone getting y on the internet, I could not give two farts. Any number of decent pilots already have umpteen videos on YouTube and vods on twitch showing how effective larger ships are when flown FA OFF; start there.

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

It's not that the npc are too hard now...it's that fighting them is no fun. It's a chore now and I'm nearly bankrupted trying...I'm here less than two weeks so the pros can perhaps forgive me for not having their resources and knowledge of the game.

Being told to "git gud" is the sorta remark one would expect to hear from a child...or a very immature adult with an attitude problem...it's boring and more than a little insulting and makes the elite pros look like a bunch of gaming snobs.

Anyway...this game was fun...now it's not fun...so what do I do now? Do I "git gud"? Or cut my losses and leave because half the players here are morons and things probably won't get any better from a new player's perspective? I mean, we got all these hardcore elite snobs who think very highly of themselves telling us that if we can't adapt our game, then we should just leave?

Brilliant tactic for keeping new players...standing ovation to the idiot who thought pandering to only the hardcore players would be a good idea. Bored with this now...

Welcome to the 'newcomer unfriendly' Dangerous Discussions forum where flame wars are ignited and brains with 'cognitive biases' were sold at discount prices when they were born. (But still not as bad as the trolls in the lower echelons of YouTube.)

I agree that the learning curve for newcomers/casual players with the new AI is just too hard, and it's just going to alienate new players especially ones who are interested in Elite for non-combat roles.

Simple(?) solution is just for FDEV to tone it down if your combat rank is in the lower ranks and have lower-ranked NPCs only pick a fight with you.
That way the 'Harmless' ones can continue to mine/explore/trade and 'Elite' can fight to their heart's content with the buffed up AI.

For those that don't agree, just ask them to clear their save and start from a 'Harmless' sidewinder and join in a Community Goal in OPEN without winging up.