DLC18 discussion and predictions

Genuine Question:
Who else here would also be extremly annoyed if we get flying birds lets say macaws but inside of the WE without any changes to it and instead just like the sloths a prebuild climbing frame as their seating area that they would flutter between?
Im not saying WE birds cant work and id even admit that for smaller more active birds like songbirds it might be the best option, but a macaw, owl, eagle, vulture, whatever wont be moving most of the time. In fact most of the time they would be sitting and just fly to get from one seat to the next. And if those seats and the size and the whole fact that its a forced walkthrough are still just as unflexible and forced upon us as they are rn that would be such a dissappointment.
Cause like hands up we genuinly likes using the sloth? To place down a 8 meter long straight path, no terrain variation cause path, forced walkthrough, no variable climbing frame (that doesnt even look decent, not even mentioning good) and all that for an animal that barely moves.
I certanly dont and i have build for sloths in my zoo, they are just asleep all the time because a faux sloth climbing frame and sleep box are infinititly more entertaining to build then to work around the very rigid and limiting WE. And even if we get the miracle 5 different macaws, if they are still in that horrible box i doubt id use them
I'd prefer a habitat option and I would tend to agree that, from what I can understand, flighted birds would technically be possible in the current variation of the game...

But if we got a WTE option for parrots and, say, some new non-walkthrough exhibit type for owls, eagles, or whatever? I'd be fine with that. Because I'd assume that habitat birds were never on the table if that's how they implemented them. And I'd rather have that than no birds at all. I'm sure I would use them... Though I'd wish they were implemented alternately, I've managed to get over it with the case of the bats, butterflies, and sloths. So that wouldn't be any different.
 
But why? Why do you guys keep repeating this argument? Why would we exclude them from the pack? If your concern is that without them the pack would not sell well (lol), then obviously Frontier could add them. Roseate Spoonbill/Scarlet Ibis and couple of monkeys are possible to do with current mechanics, so I am not sure what this argument is supposed to prove.


yeah...no.
Patagonian Mara, South American Coati, Rhea...all of those have over 250 holdings and that is just for Europe.

So if we make a pack for example out of:
Monkey
Spoonbill/Ibis
Patagonian Mara
Coati
Rhea
Ocelot
Tamandua

We have a nice combination of animals you you guys argue are the only poppular SA species, common in captivity species and 2 additional not supper common, but interesting animals. Ocelot would be popular with casuals, if you still worry about them. It is a cat, it does not matter if they cannot name it It is a cat, it is cute and casuals would love it.

How would that not work? Why it was ok for Oceania pack to have niche, not common in captivity worldwide animals but it is suddently a problem for South America?
I never said oceania was a better theme than south america I have literally stated multiple times at this point that south america is at least on par or better as a theme and that it wasnt until the more niche topics such as oceania and eurasia were getting a revisit that south america 2 became a possibility over broader themes such as tropical (which really should of had more south america). I have excluded monkeys simply because people cant stop arguing about whats possible with them and yeah the spoonbill and ibis are possible but I was more referring to stuff like macaws. That pack you listed will work and it will be just as popular if not more popular than all this previous years packs but its because of the timing people really didnt start talking about south america till around the end 2022 and before that people had other priorities keep in mind I dont hate more niche style packs I just think they are less likely to happen.
 
Genuine Question:
Who else here would also be extremly annoyed if we get flying birds lets say macaws but inside of the WE without any changes to it and instead just like the sloths a prebuild climbing frame as their seating area that they would flutter between?
Im not saying WE birds cant work and id even admit that for smaller more active birds like songbirds it might be the best option, but a macaw, owl, eagle, vulture, whatever wont be moving most of the time. In fact most of the time they would be sitting and just fly to get from one seat to the next. And if those seats and the size and the whole fact that its a forced walkthrough are still just as unflexible and forced upon us as they are rn that would be such a dissappointment.
Cause like hands up we genuinly likes using the sloth? To place down a 8 meter long straight path, no terrain variation cause path, forced walkthrough, no variable climbing frame (that doesnt even look decent, not even mentioning good) and all that for an animal that barely moves.
I certanly dont and i have build for sloths in my zoo, they are just asleep all the time because a faux sloth climbing frame and sleep box are infinititly more entertaining to build then to work around the very rigid and limiting WE. And even if we get the miracle 5 different macaws, if they are still in that horrible box i doubt id use them
I wouldnt be annoyed at all at least they were making it into the game sure it would be disappointing but hoping for anything more than walkthroughs just isnt happening.

How would you guys feel if we get a SA Pack that's just 5 macaws for walk-through and nothing else from SA until Planet Zoo 2.
I mean if they were free from the WTE jail cell and it had even just a little scenery I would be happy.
 
lets start something a little less charged then another south america debate if you had to make a pack that had an animal from every letter of the alphabet what would it be
I'm sticking to animals that are possible with current game mechanics so no flying birds or full aquatic critters.

A. Alligator snapping turtle or Arrau river turtle
B. Blackbuck
C. Coati, Southamerican
D. Duck, Mandarin
E. Echidna, short beaked
F. Ferret, black footed
G. Golden lion tamarin
H. Howler Monkey
I. Ibis, scarlet
J. Japanese giant salamander
K. Kakapo
L. Loris
M. Mara, patagonian
N. Nile crocodile
O. Ocelot
P. Palla's cat
Q. Quoll
R. Rhea
S. Spoonbill, roseatte
T. Tamandua or tree kangaroo
V. Vervet monkey
W. Walrus
X. ??? - idk just put a pelican in here lol
Y. Yak or Yellow throated marten
Z. Zebra duiker
 
here is my list
A azaras agouti
B bobcat
C canada goose
D desert cottontail
E emperor penguin
F fishing cat
G. gerenuk
H hamadrayas baboon
I. impala
J japanase giant salamander
K king cobra
L leopard seal
M. musk ox
N northern elephant seal
O olive baboon
P patagonian mara
Q queen alexandrias birdwing
R rock hyrax
S sea otter
T tuatara
U ulysses butterfly
V virginia opossum
W white nosed coati
X. xanatus hummingbird
Y. yellow throated marten
Z. zorilla
 
I feel like pinnipeds are something most want cause they’re fun to build for but when frontier actually asks which one we want:
1717512209527.gif

None of them are really perfect or will stack up to the seal or sea lion.
 
I think either Walrus or Elephant Seal would work. They're both very unique in their appearance and any addition to our pinniped roster would be excellent. They're also both huge animals and therefore would add new size dynamic to habitat build.

Speaking of huge pinnipeds, my personal favorite would be the Behemoth of Steller's Sea Lion. I don't mind that it could technically be called "clone", the size and the habitat differentiate it enough from Claifornian one I believe.

Them paired with Sea Otters for Pacific Northwest section is my dream 🤩 I'm leaving Steller's Sea Eagles and Puffins to delusions 😩

1000015904.jpg
 
I think either Walrus or Elephant Seal would work. They're both very unique in their appearance and any addition to our pinniped roster would be excellent. They're also both huge animals and therefore would add new size dynamic to habitat build.

Speaking of huge pinnipeds, my personal favorite would be the Behemoth of Steller's Sea Lion. I don't mind that it could technically be called "clone", the size and the habitat differentiate it enough from Claifornian one I believe.

Them paired with Sea Otters for Pacific Northwest section is my dream 🤩 I'm leaving Steller's Sea Eagles and Puffins to delusions 😩

View attachment 394480
When allready talking about new penniped, my under the radar pipedream one is the south american sealion with their main selling point being the reddish brown manes of the males and there range covering a completly new region for the game in the coasts of south america. They are on average roughly 1,5 times the weight of a californian sealion and quite a bit more bulky in their build. With 81 worldwide holdings they also have quite the captive population as the third most common pinniped in captivity and the most common in south america.
Funfact! There are only a few pinnipeds that are held in more then 15 zoos, eventhough most species are held in atleast a few zoos with the Californian Sealion being the runaway winner with 163 holdings and only the east attlantic harbourseal with 111 holdings as the only other one making it past the 100, with potentially more but i left out the other subspecies as i do not know which ones actually count as subspecies. The ingame grey seal with its 38 holdings having just 4 more then the 34 of the walrus, so much to the walrus "being too uncommon in zoos" bit. The northern fur seal joins aso with 34, just one more then the 33 of the brown fur seal and 4 more then the 30 of the south american fur seal. The spotted seal has 27 holdings, allmost all being in asia or russia with only 2 holdings in north america and lastly with 21 we have the stellers sealion, the 10. and last pinniped that passes 15 holdings.
Its pretty fascinating how warped the view on this group can be as allmost every member is held in atleast one zoo, most of the time somewhere in or near their range as what i assume often are rescues, for example the 4 current holdings of elephant seals pretty neatly overlap with their breeding ranges, but only very few are acutally kept across multiple continents. Personally id love atleast one more non walrus pinniped to have some representation for the southern hemisphere, with either the maned sealion for just being hella cool and distinct with its mane or the brown fur seal for covering both parts of southern africa and oceania, but i can also totally understand anyone whos allready satisfied with what we currently got. But hey with all this talk about a south america pack i really woulldnt be mad about the south america sea lion as one of the packs clones. Defenetly more exciting then a bush dog and even the spectacle bear easily and would bring some representation to a completly untouched part of current south america and might even entice more people to use african penguins as humbold penguin standins.
1717513846036.jpeg
1717513860222.png
 
While it's not high on my list, the Walrus is definitely the most generally well known penniped not in the game, if not the most well known and recognized non-rodent/non rabbit mammal not in the game. I dont' personally care if we get it or not but I wouldn't be upset at its inclusion. Leopard and Harp seal are on my long list of wants as well.
 
When allready talking about new penniped, my under the radar pipedream one is the south american sealion with their main selling point being the reddish brown manes of the males and there range covering a completly new region for the game in the coasts of south america. They are on average roughly 1,5 times the weight of a californian sealion and quite a bit more bulky in their build. With 81 worldwide holdings they also have quite the captive population as the third most common pinniped in captivity and the most common in south america.
Funfact! There are only a few pinnipeds that are held in more then 15 zoos, eventhough most species are held in atleast a few zoos with the Californian Sealion being the runaway winner with 163 holdings and only the east attlantic harbourseal with 111 holdings as the only other one making it past the 100, with potentially more but i left out the other subspecies as i do not know which ones actually count as subspecies. The ingame grey seal with its 38 holdings having just 4 more then the 34 of the walrus, so much to the walrus "being too uncommon in zoos" bit. The northern fur seal joins aso with 34, just one more then the 33 of the brown fur seal and 4 more then the 30 of the south american fur seal. The spotted seal has 27 holdings, allmost all being in asia or russia with only 2 holdings in north america and lastly with 21 we have the stellers sealion, the 10. and last pinniped that passes 15 holdings.
Its pretty fascinating how warped the view on this group can be as allmost every member is held in atleast one zoo, most of the time somewhere in or near their range as what i assume often are rescues, for example the 4 current holdings of elephant seals pretty neatly overlap with their breeding ranges, but only very few are acutally kept across multiple continents. Personally id love atleast one more non walrus pinniped to have some representation for the southern hemisphere, with either the maned sealion for just being hella cool and distinct with its mane or the brown fur seal for covering both parts of southern africa and oceania, but i can also totally understand anyone whos allready satisfied with what we currently got. But hey with all this talk about a south america pack i really woulldnt be mad about the south america sea lion as one of the packs clones. Defenetly more exciting then a bush dog and even the spectacle bear easily and would bring some representation to a completly untouched part of current south america and might even entice more people to use african penguins as humbold penguin standins.
View attachment 394481View attachment 394482
This is the species we have in my city so is the one i'm more familiar with. It looks cooler than the California sea lion imo but already having the sea lion this would feel as redundant as a second flamingo to me.
 
lets start something a little less charged then another south america debate if you had to make a pack that had an animal from every letter of the alphabet what would it be
A-Azara’s Agouti
B-Blackbuck
C-Crane (Grey Crowned)
D-Duck (Mandarin)
E-Echidna
F-Francois Langur
G-Gelada
H-Howler Monkey
I-Ibis (scarlet)
J-Jabiru
K-Kudu (Greater)
L-Lion Tailed Macaque
M-Mara
N-Nile Crocodile
O-Ocelot
P-Pelican (Greater)
Q-Quoll (any)
R-Rhea
S-Spider Monkey
T-Tamandua
U-??
V-??
W-White Nosed Coati
X-??
Y-Yak
Z-??
 
A-Andean bear
B-Blackbuck
C-Coati
D-Dik dik
E-Echidna
F-Frilled lizard
G-Great white pelican
H-Howler Monkey
I-Ibis
J-Jabiru
K-Kudu (Greater)
L-Lion Tailed Macaque
M-Manatee
N-North American porcupine
O-Ocelot
P-Père David’s deer
Q-Quoll
R-Rhea
S-Serval
T-Tree kangaroo
U-Umingmak (Muskox)
V-Vicunia
W-Walrus
X-Xenarthra Tamandua
Y-Yellow baboon
Z-Zebra duiker


lets start something a little less charged then another south america debate if you had to make a pack that had an animal from every letter of the alphabet what would it be
 
Neither is something i actively want for the game but they look unique and different from the pinnipeds we already have so i would be ok with them. Neither is common in zoos but i don't care about that. Another cool unique seal is the leopard seal.
The leopard seal is one of my most wanted animals at the moment
walrus pinniped to have some representation for the southern hemisphere, with either the maned sealion for just being hella cool and distinct with its mane or the brown fur seal for covering both parts of southern africa and oceania, but i can also totally understand anyone whos allready satisfied with what we currently got. But hey with all this talk about a south america pack i really woulldnt be mad about the south america sea lion as one of the packs clones. Defenetly more exciting then a bush dog and even the spectacle bear easily and would bring some representation to a completly untouched part of current south america and might even entice more people to use african penguins as humbold penguin standins.
Yeah pretty much all pinnipeds have been kept in zoos and over half are actively kept in close proximity to their ranges.

after a quick look in zoo tier list here is a list of both the pinnipeds no longer kept and those never kept as per zoo tierlist and iucn

never
  • ross seal
  • juan fernadez fur seal

past
  • leopard seal
  • weddell seal
  • crabeater seal
  • mediteranian monk seal
  • hooded seal
  • caspian seal
  • ribbon seal
  • antarctic fur seal
  • new zealand sea lion
  • galapagos sea lion
  • galapagos fur seal
most seals that are no longer kept are antarctic seals and this is largely due to them being hard to obtain and difficult to care for but when they do find there way into zoo care usually by way of rescues they are fine.
 
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When allready talking about new penniped, my under the radar pipedream one is the south american sealion with their main selling point being the reddish brown manes of the males and there range covering a completly new region for the game in the coasts of south america. They are on average roughly 1,5 times the weight of a californian sealion and quite a bit more bulky in their build. With 81 worldwide holdings they also have quite the captive population as the third most common pinniped in captivity and the most common in south america.
Funfact! There are only a few pinnipeds that are held in more then 15 zoos, eventhough most species are held in atleast a few zoos with the Californian Sealion being the runaway winner with 163 holdings and only the east attlantic harbourseal with 111 holdings as the only other one making it past the 100, with potentially more but i left out the other subspecies as i do not know which ones actually count as subspecies. The ingame grey seal with its 38 holdings having just 4 more then the 34 of the walrus, so much to the walrus "being too uncommon in zoos" bit. The northern fur seal joins aso with 34, just one more then the 33 of the brown fur seal and 4 more then the 30 of the south american fur seal. The spotted seal has 27 holdings, allmost all being in asia or russia with only 2 holdings in north america and lastly with 21 we have the stellers sealion, the 10. and last pinniped that passes 15 holdings.
Its pretty fascinating how warped the view on this group can be as allmost every member is held in atleast one zoo, most of the time somewhere in or near their range as what i assume often are rescues, for example the 4 current holdings of elephant seals pretty neatly overlap with their breeding ranges, but only very few are acutally kept across multiple continents. Personally id love atleast one more non walrus pinniped to have some representation for the southern hemisphere, with either the maned sealion for just being hella cool and distinct with its mane or the brown fur seal for covering both parts of southern africa and oceania, but i can also totally understand anyone whos allready satisfied with what we currently got. But hey with all this talk about a south america pack i really woulldnt be mad about the south america sea lion as one of the packs clones. Defenetly more exciting then a bush dog and even the spectacle bear easily and would bring some representation to a completly untouched part of current south america and might even entice more people to use african penguins as humbold penguin standins.
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Honestly I dont mind getting animals packs that are family themed. Like a pinniped pack.
 
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