DLC18 discussion and predictions

[jcp011c]

I just don't think Frontier misses the mark anywhere near as much as people think they do. 75% of the species included in each pack are pretty highly requested and the oddball packs generally have a justifiable reason for inclusion. Arid and Twilight are maybe the only two exceptions but even then... I feel like the Twilight species picks have aged pretty well (and let's be real; two of the key nocturnal critters were being saved for Oceania; I still think that's why we got the wombat in that one) and Arid was more than 50% requested species. Those two packs feel like the theme forced them to shoehorn things more than they would have otherwise TBH.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I feel like am ore general theme will see us getting more of what we want in the best possible way. Because they don't worry about what is or isn't associated with whatever the pack name is... They can just do what is needed. If that makes sense.


TBH, I think the three you said you were sad to not get (secretary, baboon, tree 'roo) are more likely than so many of the picks in your list given that they have names in the PlanCo dictionary. Not a sure thing but definitely makes them a lot more likely than the musk ox, mara, etc.

Real talk: The NA river otter are definitely similar to species we already have but they'd both make me super happy.

This is a good point with the dictionary, I keep forgetting about that, and yes, those three show up on it with none of New World animals with new words showing up. Could be a decoy though, but definitely also a possibility. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Secretary Bird (second most wanted bird for me now) and the Tree 'Roo (most wanted non-Latin American animal for me now) and I realize the importance and prominence of the Baboon even though I'm not a huge fan. It would give us a second African monkey though. Africa is far better off than South America primate wise, but when it comes to just monkeys both continents only have one.

 

[RightWhale]

I just don't think Frontier misses the mark anywhere near as much as people think they do. 75% of the species included in each pack are pretty highly requested and the oddball packs generally have a justifiable reason for inclusion. Arid and Twilight are maybe the only two exceptions but even then... I feel like the Twilight species picks have aged pretty well (and let's be real; two of the key nocturnal critters were being saved for Oceania; I still think that's why we got the wombat in that one) and Arid was more than 50% requested species. Those two packs feel like the theme forced them to shoehorn things more than they would have otherwise TBH.

I’m not a big hater of last year’s packs, I do like them! For me it’s just little things here or there.

• A pack called “Tropical” not only didn’t have a monkey, but also didn’t have a bird. This is admittedly a double edged sword, as I love the lar gibbon and the AWM is just a better monitor lizard than the Nile in game. Still, it was a noticeable difference without a bird or monkey. Granted, the AWM and lar gibbon did give us justification for easily one of the best themes in game.
• Arid only needed two changes IMO, it’s fine if it’s a stealth Africa pack. Just change 2 of the ungulates for a hamadryas baboon and then a bird/ African spurred tortoise.
• Oceania is fine as is, but man, the quokka should have been a tree kangaroo. I love the quokka, but the lack of tree roo is felt.
• Eurasia is also in a similar place as Arid, while its animals match its themes much better, I still think a change should have been made. The saiga, while a fun inclusion, only bloated the ungulate roster of the year even more. I think it should have been a Pallas cat.
• For the free animal I do love the peccary, but in one year getting 3 pigs (and getting 4 pigs in a little over the year) felt excessive. We needed the peccary for South American representation, likewise with the red river hog and wild boar. So while I wouldn’t change anything, getting so many of the same animal in one year was silly.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I feel like am ore general theme will see us getting more of what we want in the best possible way. Because they don't worry about what is or isn't associated with whatever the pack name is... They can just do what is needed. If that makes sense.

I hope so! I do have hopes that they will wow us! But that feeling is balanced out by all the other stuff I mentioned.

Real talk: The NA river otter are definitely similar to species we already have but they'd both make me super happy.

Hot take, but for local North American zoos the river otter is as important as the ABB. Personally if we got the otter over the bear I wouldn’t be mad.

 

[NachoB]

Yeah I get that, for me personally I consider it 12 animals. I just want more species in game! I don’t care how “easy” they are, for me representation is representation!

I’m a mixed bag for how I feel like the next dlc will go, I don’t think they want to let Planet Zoo go out with a whimper, but there is a big difference between what the company is expecting vs. the community. By community I will also refer to myself here. My main worry, is Frontier just does what it would usually do. So the pack is “more of the same” in the worst way possible (personally).

Frontier decides to follow the meta wishlist, and gives us a whole bunch of animals that are highly requested.

1. Hamadryas baboon
2. Secretary bird
3. Muskox
4. Blackbuck
5. Markhor
6. Ocelot
7. Spectacled bear
8. Exhibit animal: cobra

This could be a very realistic outcome, we get our yearly primate, we got a bird, we got a bear and a cat, Frontier even undershoots and only does 3 ungulates. For Frontier, they followed the meta wishlist adding what animals they can, so the final dlc should go out with a bang! After all, these are the animals we asked for. For me, something like this wouldn’t be a great final dlc. Especially as it adds only one bird, one primate, and otherwise is just more of the same all around. I don’t care if the final dlc is bigger, I want it to be different. By different, I also want it to fix gaps in the roster to the best of its ability. It won’t be perfect, obviously not everyone can be happy, and obviously I also don’t speak for everyone. I just hope it will be different, while I like all the dlc we got in the past year. I think a lot of them suffer from feeling like they undershot where they could have gone. The only one that felt really different was Oceania, and that’s because it focused on a region that needed it, while adding animals that needed the representation (birds, marsupials, and bats).

That's a bit too simplistic tbh. We have to be fair with Frontier. They do give the extra effort to more than one animal per pack. I agree at least 3-4 animals in an 8 animal pack would be straight up clones but the other 3-4 would probably be a bit more complex just like we have had in every pack with new animations and detailed models.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

I see the next pack is gonna have 11 habitat animals and 2 exhibits, if im wrong im still buying it and not crying at all

Anyway, I need a fat walrus, a biggy Tree Kangaroo Boi, and a Secretary Bird

To
Shady Frontier Higher Ups

 

[AndyZoos]

Its not really that they dont do requested species, its more that the requested species they pick are mostly from the same groups.

Like in the current 2024 wishlist the Top 20 is 50% monkeys and birds, but i totally expect them to do something Rightwhale suggested and essentially doing the other 50%.
I mean you can easily do a version of a final pack thats 90% ungulates and carnivorans again and have all of them be in the Top 20, so they are all highly requested but at the same time thats not really what people want

Now, this is a topic that's been discussed ad nauseum! But I'm here for it. Haha. It's worth pointing out that the Top 20 being 50% birds and monkeys is a relatively new thing along with the Latin America lean so it makes sense that they haven't addressed those gaps yet. If these animals were higher up on the wishlist 1-2 years ago it would be a very different scenario.

They lean on the list pretty heavily - and specifically the top three - in terms of pack selection. It's been a very common theme over the last two years. And to say people didn't want any of those animals is very misleading because quite a few of them were picked because they were in the top 10-20 at the time the pack was released.

...And if they had released, say, a Latin America pack last year at some point then people would instead be clamoring for the Tasmanian devil, the wolverine, the kiwi, etc. and asking why the requests for those were ignored and so on. It's all a trade-off.

This is a good point with the dictionary, I keep forgetting about that, and yes, those three show up on it with none of New World animals with new words showing up. Could be a decoy though, but definitely also a possibility. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Secretary Bird (second most wanted bird for me now) and the Tree 'Roo (most wanted non-Latin American animal for me now) and I realize the importance and prominence of the Baboon even though I'm not a huge fan. It would give us a second African monkey though. Africa is far better off than South America primate wise, but when it comes to just monkeys both continents only have one.

I don't know that they'd go through the trouble of setting up a "decoy" but y'know. Haha. Who knows. Those species also could have been cut at one point (Howe is in there too which we all know was cut a long time ago) but that's another factor that could influence this final pack...

Animals they initiated development for and scrapped for prior packs. That could save time and resources while giving people what they want. Zero evidence to support that but could logically make sense.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

Yeah I get that, for me personally I consider it 12 animals. I just want more species in game! I don’t care how “easy” they are, for me representation is representation!

I’m a mixed bag for how I feel like the next dlc will go, I don’t think they want to let Planet Zoo go out with a whimper, but there is a big difference between what the company is expecting vs. the community. By community I will also refer to myself here. My main worry, is Frontier just does what it would usually do. So the pack is “more of the same” in the worst way possible (personally).

Frontier decides to follow the meta wishlist, and gives us a whole bunch of animals that are highly requested.

1. Hamadryas baboon
2. Secretary bird
3. Muskox
4. Blackbuck
5. Markhor
6. Ocelot
7. Spectacled bear
8. Exhibit animal: cobra

This could be a very realistic outcome, we get our yearly primate, we got a bird, we got a bear and a cat, Frontier even undershoots and only does 3 ungulates. For Frontier, they followed the meta wishlist adding what animals they can, so the final dlc should go out with a bang! After all, these are the animals we asked for. For me, something like this wouldn’t be a great final dlc. Especially as it adds only one bird, one primate, and otherwise is just more of the same all around. I don’t care if the final dlc is bigger, I want it to be different. By different, I also want it to fix gaps in the roster to the best of its ability. It won’t be perfect, obviously not everyone can be happy, and obviously I also don’t speak for everyone. I just hope it will be different, while I like all the dlc we got in the past year. I think a lot of them suffer from feeling like they undershot where they could have gone. The only one that felt really different was Oceania, and that’s because it focused on a region that needed it, while adding animals that needed the representation (birds, marsupials, and bats).

I don't know why people think Frontier under develops, there's like 6 clones and 2 actually worked on.
Wheres the Pelican, Tree Roo, Our NWM, and my baby boy the walrus

 

[Marvinb]

Now, this is a topic that's been discussed ad nauseum! But I'm here for it. Haha. It's worth pointing out that the Top 20 being 50% birds and monkeys is a relatively new thing along with the Latin America lean so it makes sense that they haven't addressed those gaps yet. If these animals were higher up on the wishlist 1-2 years ago it would be a very different scenario.

Yeah but its also important to consider that a big factor in why there are so many monkes and birds up there now is because everything around them is getting ticked off, so they start to congregate up there. And while the demand for more monkeys and birds has gotten to the extreme level only recently ish, the ones at the very top have been there for a long long time. Heck even in the orginal Meta Wishlist from 2021 the Secretary, Howler, Hamadryas and Golden Lion Tamarin are number 1, 5, 7 and 8 respectively, so to say they haven been heavily requested 1-2 Years ago is just not true

 

[AndyZoos]

Yeah but its also important to consider that a big factor in why there are so many monkes and birds up there now is because everything around them is getting ticked off, so they start to congregate up there. And while the demand for more monkeys and birds has gotten to the extreme level only recently ish, the ones at the very top have been there for a long long time. Heck even in the orginal Meta Wishlist from 2021 the Secretary, Howler, Hamadryas and Golden Lion Tamarin are number 1, 5, 7 and 8 respectively, so to say they haven been heavily requested 1-2 Years ago is just not true

But then the wish list got re-vamped and most of them dropped in demand pretty significantly. Secretary bird is the one exception. People have wanted them but until very recently there were higher priorities/bigger wants for people. That's just the reality when you look at the numbers in that wish list quantitatively (and even more so when its weighted by position within individual lists).

And I do really feel that this situation would be the same with people saying "we're missing species X, Y, or Z." It would just be different species. If the howler were #1 and we got a Latin American animal pack instead of Eurasia, we'd be left with people wondering where the wolverine or takin were. It's always going to be something.

EDIT: And the pack themes and keeping the packs "diverse" is probably why so much of this happened. And a few themes just didn't really lend itself to including any primates which compounded it.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

almost everyones going crazy because we all know next pack is the last

 

[Fallax]

If Frontier can give us at least two birds and two monkeys in the final pack I will be more than happy. Anything else is extra at that point. Here is a roster of 13 (Animal+Scenery numbers) I came up with which tries to cover most of the groups while also having every continent get a bit of representation. How would people feel with this pack? I tried to be decently realistic while not too pessimistic.

1. South American Coati
2. Walrus
3. Secretary Bird
4. Great White Pelican
5. Greater Rhea
6. Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
7. Patagonian Mara
8. Black Howler Monkey
9. Hamadryas Baboon
10. Markhor
11. Musk Ox
12. King Cobra (Exhibit)
13. Panther Chameleon (Exhibit)

Give us a clone for the anniversary like a blackbuck, spectacled bear or grey crowned crane and I think this would be a decently satisfying finale.

 

[NachoB]

If Frontier can give us at least two birds and two monkeys in the final pack I will be more than happy. Anything else is extra at that point. Here is a roster of 13 (Animal+Scenery numbers) I came up with which tries to cover most of the groups while also having every continent get a bit of representation. How would people feel with this pack? I tried to be decently realistic while not too pessimistic.

1. South American Coati
2. Walrus
3. Secretary Bird
4. Great White Pelican
5. Greater Rhea
6. Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
7. Patagonian Mara
8. Black Howler Monkey
9. Hamadryas Baboon
10. Markhor
11. Musk Ox
12. King Cobra (Exhibit)
13. Panther Chameleon (Exhibit)

Give us a clone for the anniversary like a blackbuck, spectacled bear or grey crowned crane and I think this would be a decently satisfying finale.

Yeah pretty much my desired list minus the walrus. I would replace it with the Palla's cat but that is just personal taste / wants.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

If Frontier can give us at least two birds and two monkeys in the final pack I will be more than happy. Anything else is extra at that point. Here is a roster of 13 (Animal+Scenery numbers) I came up with which tries to cover most of the groups while also having every continent get a bit of representation. How would people feel with this pack? I tried to be decently realistic while not too pessimistic.

1. South American Coati
2. Walrus
3. Secretary Bird
4. Great White Pelican
5. Greater Rhea
6. Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
7. Patagonian Mara
8. Black Howler Monkey
9. Hamadryas Baboon
10. Markhor
11. Musk Ox
12. King Cobra (Exhibit)
13. Panther Chameleon (Exhibit)

Give us a clone for the anniversary like a blackbuck, spectacled bear or grey crowned crane and I think this would be a decently satisfying finale.

Buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy,

 

[RightWhale]

If Frontier can give us at least two birds and two monkeys in the final pack I will be more than happy. Anything else is extra at that point. Here is a roster of 13 (Animal+Scenery numbers) I came up with which tries to cover most of the groups while also having every continent get a bit of representation. How would people feel with this pack? I tried to be decently realistic while not too pessimistic.

1. South American Coati
2. Walrus
3. Secretary Bird
4. Great White Pelican
5. Greater Rhea
6. Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
7. Patagonian Mara
8. Black Howler Monkey
9. Hamadryas Baboon
10. Markhor
11. Musk Ox
12. King Cobra (Exhibit)
13. Panther Chameleon (Exhibit)

Give us a clone for the anniversary like a blackbuck, spectacled bear or grey crowned crane and I think this would be a decently satisfying finale.

I would be upset about the lack of a duck, but it’s a pretty good list all things considered.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

I would be upset about the lack of a duck, but it’s a pretty good list all things considered.

I mean, there's like a ton of duck mods that are like game quality

 

[Fallax]

I would be upset about the lack of a duck, but it’s a pretty good list all things considered.

Yea that is probably the biggest omission, though I'm really not sure if I'd replace the pelican for it. I think if we get 3 birds like I put... The secretary is 100% in, it has been up there as most requested for a long time now, the rhea is such an easy clone and considering how much we are begging for South America its an easy pick. Third has to be a water bird and a pelican or a duck are the main options, though I guess both the grey crowned crane and shoebill have a chance too but recently they have been shoved aside community-wise.

 

[Marvinb]

But then the wish list got re-vamped and most of them dropped in demand pretty significantly. Secretary bird is the one exception. People have wanted them but until very recently there were higher priorities/bigger wants for people. That's just the reality when you look at the numbers in that wish list quantitatively (and even more so when its weighted by position within individual lists).

And I do really feel that this situation would be the same with people saying "we're missing species X, Y, or Z." It would just be different species. If the howler were #1 and we got a Latin American animal pack instead of Eurasia, we'd be left with people wondering where the wolverine or takin were. It's always going to be something.

EDIT: And the pack themes and keeping the packs "diverse" is probably why so much of this happened. And a few themes just didn't really lend itself to including any primates which compounded it.

Yeah but im not really talking about specific species, im talking birds and monkeys as a whole.

Idk maybe its just me being frustrated about my two favorite groups of (Pz relevant) animals being shafted like this but i think getting an antelope every other pack while the last monkey is 3,5 years ago is kinda b s

 

[RightWhale]

I mean, there's like a ton of duck mods that are like game quality

There are, but when it comes to discussions about animals I never liked “there’s a mod for it”.

If someone wanted a Pallas cat and I told them “there is a game quality mod for it” it’s kind of dismissive. There is a blackbuck mod, and a secretary bird mod. Saying just because they have a mod they shouldn’t be in game is silly. I recognize that isn’t what you are getting it, im saying this as more of a general statement. As of right now I don’t use mods, so I would like an official duck. Mods still haven’t cracked the sound issue, and even with new animations and sounds I just want to see Frontier make an official duck.

I’m not directing this at you, as you are right. Even if I don’t get a duck I could use mods. I just get a bit salty that the animals I like (birds mostly) get the “there’s a mod treatment” when at this point I can say the same for every single animal.

 

[PlanetZooLover]

There are, but when it comes to discussions about animals I never liked “there’s a mod for it”.

If someone wanted a Pallas cat and I told them “there is a game quality mod for it” it’s kind of dismissive. There is a blackbuck mod, and a secretary bird mod. Saying just because they have a mod they shouldn’t be in game is silly. I recognize that isn’t what you are getting it, im saying this as more of a general statement. As of right now I don’t use mods, so I would like an official duck. Mods still haven’t cracked the sound issue, and even with new animations and sounds I just want to see Frontier make an official duck.

I’m not directing this at you, as you are right. Even if I don’t get a duck I could use mods. I just get a bit salty that the animals I like (birds mostly) get the “there’s a mod treatment” when at this point I can say the same for every single animal.

Oh I love Ducks IRL, Its not that I don't want them in the game. But, if its between Pelican and Duck. I feel Pelican is more essential then duck as most irl zoo's use ducks as background animals or ambient and not big exhibits unless its an aviary. Pelicans are more needed imo currently.

 

[RightWhale]

Yeah but im not really talking about specific species, im talking birds and monkeys as a whole.

I agree with both you and AndyZoos on this issue, which is what makes me anxious about it a bit. Likewise I do agree with NachoB as I should give Frontier a fair shake. Still the issues is that now monkeys and birds are so requested, will Frontier now focus on them. The system they have set up has worked for them so far, while I agree I should try to be more fair, it’s still ultimately up to Frontier if they wish to focus on them.

They have made it this far focusing on not monkeys and birds, would it make sense for them to do it for the final dlc? In my opinion absolutely. Whether Frontier sees that is a different story.

 

[RightWhale]

Oh I love Ducks IRL, Its not that I don't want them in the game. But, if its between Pelican and Duck. I feel Pelican is more essential then duck as most irl zoo's use ducks as background animals or ambient and not big exhibits unless its an aviary. Pelicans are more needed imo currently.

On that I’m not gonna disagree with, if someone finds a different animal more essential than me I can’t argue. While I would be upset about lack of duck, I’ll admit a pelican would get me hyped.

As for ducks being ambient animals, that’s honestly why I want them. I think birds are perfect for filler animals, and mixed species habitats. At the moment we don’t have enough birds to fill those roles. Here are some examples:

1. We still have no birds for a tropical house. No ducks, no storks, no cranes, no jungle fowl, we got nothing. Just having 1-3 birds for this role would go a very long way.
2. For mixed African bird habitats I really have one option, the ostrich. Grey crowned cranes, guineafowl, or a ground hornbill would be perfect for when I want a mixed species habitats but I’m sick of using the ostrich over an over.
3. For Flamingos I think we could use another flamingo species, a pelican, and obviously some more waterfowl. I would love to make a mixed species habitat like at stone zoo: American flamingos, roseate spoonbill, and goldeneye ducks!