Do planet zoo game developer really know what we want in planet Zoo game ???

[Willyphua]

Why frontier or planet zoo don't let other modders to be part of animal designing or making ??? Maybe they can collaborate with those outsource modders

If they planetzoo can't cope with all our huge demand requests...

Just Google planet zoo mods and you will see many mods or animals or reskin that other modders have make ...althought those modders are using animals models or animation that are already in planet zoo game ...

I saw plenty of animals that we requested in planetzoo forums at that mods website...


But I still don't dare to install the mods ... And I have not download any mods from that website...

Because I am afraid of getting banned or block by frontier forums ... So that why I am still not USING any mods yet...


Unless frontier /planet zoo allowed us to ....

 

[paul78]

@random goat its actually true each zt2 expansion took a yr. If frontier can get back on track with dlc every 3 months give or take you end up with the exact same. 20 and 20. @Willyphua no one ever said you couldn’t use the mods frontier just won’t take responsibility. Your just not allowed to share them here or really talk about them because of forum rules. But honestly tho how many animals do really think this game could handle guys? I’d be happy with another 50 -maybe pushing it with 100 more. Zt2 had 110 total and even with the mods you could only use so many. The game has to maintain playability. Like I said just hope for long support and absolutely no console version soon and it should be ok.

 

[random goat]

[...]

It'd be nice if you could squeeze everything in less paragraphs... But anyway, Frontier doesn't need to allow anyone to install mods, and won't ban anyone if they use mods lol. They just don't officially support them, which is understandable given that they're not finished with the game yet. Also mods will most liekly never reach Frontier's quality and most of them become unusable whenever there is a new major update.

@random goat its actually true each zt2 expansion took a yr. If frontier can get back on track with dlc every 3 months give or take you end up with the exact same. 20 and 20.

You count exhibit animals in the ecuation? Okay. But even then,there is a condition in your sentence. 'If'.
So far, PZ DLCs have not been released every 3 months and there is nothing indicating this will change in the future. Bear in mind that exactly one year after PZ release we got 14 new animals (counting exhibit ones). If the same DLC model and schedule continues, we'll have 29 new animals exactly two years after release. That's not 20/year, is it?

 

[markun]

Why frontier or planet zoo don't let other modders to be part of animal designing or making ??? Maybe they can collaborate with those outsource modders

Because the quality is, to put it kindly, variable. They have their own standards of design and will keep to them.

I still don’t get why they can’t release more ‘clone’ animals and I repeat again my idea for a monthly surprise animal release. But clearly that isn’t part of their business model.

 

[paul78]

Yeah but think about we started with 76 animals I believe and in a yr and 2 months we are at 95. I highly doubt this game will produce 200 plus animals. There’s still the optimization factor. And yes designing high quality animals does take time there’s no short cut or magic wand. My guess to the more clones is because even tho it takes up much less space then a new rig with animations it still takes up valuable space not to mention the complaints the wolves and bears received even tho there are some differences in the models. Also if people remember zt2 animals were cartoons and wonky animations. Even AD took plenty of time releasing mods when team numbers were high now your lucky to see 2 a yr.

 

[markun]

My guess to the more clones is because even tho it takes up much less space then a new rig with animations it still takes up valuable space not to mention the complaints the wolves and bears received even tho there are some differences in the models.

I’m not sure what you mean by space. In terms of complaints, that’s why I suggest a monthly surprise animal. A black and white ruffed lemur for example would be fine as an option to buy as part of a series of monthly releases but I’d be disappointed - to say the least - if it was taking up a slot in a DLC.

 

[random goat]

Yeah but think about we started with 76 animals I believe and in a yr and 2 months we are at 95.

Paul, you can play with time and figures as much as you like but the fact is: so far they have released DLCs at 3 different times in a natural year: April, August, December. 3 DLCs per year = 15 animals (counting exhibit ones).

I highly doubt this game will produce 200 plus animals. There’s still the optimization factor.

But you realize that at the current rate we'll only get ~125, right? It's not a bad number, but insufficient for many PZ players.
You have a good point on the optimization factor. It's something that might be playing a role here (but we'll never know that).

And yes designing high quality animals does take time there’s no short cut or magic wand. My guess to the more clones is because even tho it takes up much less space then a new rig with animations it still takes up valuable space not to mention the complaints the wolves and bears received even tho there are some differences in the models.

You are one of the most active members in the forum. I believe you watched that official video where they talked about rigging and making new animals, and essentially how easier it has become with the great system they've put in place. You can also check one of the last LionRider's videos on youtube where he shows how to mod or re-skin an animal. And it's pretty much the same in every game. I don't know what more arguments might be needed but creating certain animals does not require that much time. There are many animals that would only require mere aesthetic changes (barely no new sounds, no new animations, no new rig, etc. etc.). It's just a matter of preferences/business.
I wouldn't be happy if a black&white ruffed lemur occupied one of the 4 animal slots in a DLC. But if they offer a Madagascar DLC with 4 unique animals + 2-4 reskinned ones I (and I believe many people) wouldn't complain a single bit.

 

[Nioell]

That is definitely my impression. I get the feeling they don't know about zoos, don't care particularly about zoos and don't understand how zoos actually work. The most obvious example is the polar bear fiasco but there are others.

Why don't we have bars and mesh building pieces? I still believe that it is because somehow this is seen by those behind the game as being 'cruel cages' rather than vital, key parts of modern zoo building.

And I feel the occasionally random nature of the animal choices - two giant tortoise species in the base game, a Himalayan brown bear as well as the grizzly - doesn't inspire confidence.

So much this! I don't know how many times this was requested since release and yet we got nothing. It's been over a year and all we got is ONE additional fence for a Zoo game and that after we only got a handful to begin with. It's not just the animals, it's everything around that as well but I also can't really say that I'm surprised anymore sad as that is...just look at the paths. That's been an issue since PC alpha really and it barely changed even though there's been countless complaints about it, same for the terrain and water restrictions. Or the hitboxes, don't even get me started on those...

They say build the zoo of your dreams, yet they put tons of obstacles in the way of that and don't offer even the most basic pieces to built a simple backstage area. But hey, at least you can build an Indy Jones style temple for your Llamas now (yeah, sorry, I'm still kinda slaty about that) that your food and drink loving guests will certainly love, while they complain about the view of whatever animal it is they're trying to view through the 4m high, solid brick wall this time around, instead of walking to the perfectly fine viewing area a few meters further down the path.

Needless to say I had a whole lot of hope for this game and was so happy when I first heard about it, but now it's been out ove a year and I can't get into it anymore for sooo many reasons. And if I'm honest, looking at the way things are going ATM my hopes lie more with the modding community than the devs themselves which is really kinda sad but true nonetheless.

 

[paul78]

But honestly a roadmap is a roadmap. If they have 3-5 years planned they will periodically space it out to their timeframe. There will likely be all animal packs eventually as well. There game is highly advertised by the YouTube community also so imo to cater to that niche building pieces take big priority as many are experienced builders from PC. Honestly I only expected 125-150 animals. Anything more is just a bonus. Also if you notice the workshop creations get a huge amount of attention in this game. And although I’m happy to have the option to build these items this isn’t actually typical of what you’d see at a actual zoo with budgets in mind. So yes I can agree frontier doesn’t really focus on the zoo aspect of the game vs the glorified building in the game.

 

[NZFanatic]

Honestly it's rather telling that community involvement completely slows down to a near-stop after each new DLC, but I don't think we can completely blame Frontier for that. I get the feeling that there just isn't much to discuss during these times, beyond speculating on what might come next.

A lot of the complaints are old-hat now but we have to keep in mind that - as been said already - there is a roadmap, and they won't deviate from it. The thing we don't know is how far their roadmap extends. Is it for one year? Then that year is up and something addressing our concerns might be on the way. If it's two years, then we can probably expect more of the same. You see what I mean?

They do listen to us but they don't have a magic wand that they wave to make everything happen. Certain features are probably held back for specific release schedules, and others might not be possible to implement. Some, I agree, are more questionable, but it's likely they have a plan on how they're going to drop them (such as adding diving to more animals) and they just haven't reached that point yet.

 

[iloveyourzoos]

I may be grasping at straws, but I think there's a way to read all of this in a way that paints a really optimistic picture for our beloved game.

Chante has said she meets weekly with the devs to look at forum suggestions. I believe her. That means that anything that they haven't explicitly said "no" to is still on the table as a possibility at some point.

They haven't released a roadmap, so it's possible to hope that new content could continue for another 3, 5 or even 10 years. And the large number of "essential" things that we think aren't in the game yet can be read as a sign that they may be planning a long run for the series, and are saving these for the future. (It's not over until the black rhino sings!).

If planet coaster is a model, then they switched to mostly ride packs near the end for their last dlc's. So even the 4 animal model can be read as a good sign from a longevity standpoint. When they start dumping 10 or 12 animals at once, it means we're nearing the end... which none of us want!

I also think that all the "jumping ship" that is about to happen with prehistoric kingdom might actually be beneficial for those of us who are really into zoos as zoos. It will allow Frontier to focus more and more on zoo lovers, as opposed to those who were mostly here just because it was the most recent construction game or the hot new thing.

Which brings me back to the title of this thread: "Do planet zoo game developers really know what we want in a Planet Zoo game?" My optimistic answer is yes. Maybe they know us better than we know ourselves!

Maybe their 10-year road map and business plan is quite brilliant: Focus on more famous animals first to make a splash, with lots of construction pieces that are familiar to the planet coaster crowd and many youtube builders, knowing full well that these folks won't stick around forever. But that the true zoo crew will.

Then, once the casual players have moved on, they can focus on zoo items and animals in a way that really does give the hardcore zoo fans what we want... bars and mesh and aviaries and fish and animal gates and filler animals and reskin packs and animals that are common in zoos but that the general public has never even heard of. It opens them up to make all sorts of things which may be quite different than what they need to put together when they're splitting their attention between the desires of zoo lovers, building enthusiasts, coaster hold-overs, people who are waiting for dinosaurs, youtube counters, etc.

Is this overly optimistic? Maybe. But I have a sense that us zoo lovers who stick around are going to be richly rewarded as our voices become a larger proportion/percentage of the community that remains, and as frontier releases more and more of our requested features that they are probably already working on.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Why frontier or planet zoo don't let other modders to be part of animal designing or making ??? Maybe they can collaborate with those outsource modders

If they planetzoo can't cope with all our huge demand requests

Well, why hand over your game to the community? It's their property and their engine (not open-source)..
And the quality of the current available mods - some look good but some aren't good.
If they need more staff, they just hire them. At least you are able to control the vision of your own game.
i think they already confirmed multiple times they don't officially support mods, so asking modders for support doesn't sound that logical.

Btw, Who knows how those tools could affect existing games or any future games.
Releasing modding tools is basically killing an online part of a game. Before you know it, full of cheaters.

Maybe the demand is a bit unreasonable? (I know, playing Devil's advocate )
I get the amount of animals suggestions but some request/demands are basically asking for a revamp of the basics or almost an entire new game worth of content. Or a completely different game.

I still don’t get why they can’t release more ‘clone’ animals and I repeat again my idea for a monthly surprise animal release. But clearly that isn’t part of their business model

Among the requests for more animals, I like this suggestion a lot

If planet coaster is a model, then they switched to mostly ride packs near the end for their last dlc's. So even the 4 animal model can be read as a good sign from a longevity standpoint. When they start dumping 10 or 12 animals at once, it means we're nearing the end... which none of us want!

Fair point, that's something to think about.
A friend of mine plays European Truck Simulator 2. Very appealing to a specific group but they release a lot of smaller DLC (mostly cosmetic) and once a year an expansion pack for a very decent price. Already +8 years of DLC/support - great to see how smaller DLC keeps the game relevant and how some existing features are updated.

 

[Tobs]

Fair point, that's something to think about.
A friend of mine plays European Truck Simulator 2. Very appealing to a specific group but they release a lot of smaller DLC (mostly cosmetic) and once a year an expansion pack for a very decent price. Already +8 years of DLC/support - great to see how smaller DLC keeps the game relevant and how some existing features are updated.

Again, ETS2 and American Truck Simulator, they have a long live because they support modding. In fact, most of the smaller DLCs are popular mods that the company decided to improve/optimise and release as a paid DLC. Similar things happen with Cities:Skylines. Or Total War Warhammer 2. These games have a brilliant symbiosis between community - modders - developers. Even some historic games like Flight Simulator X, released in 2006, lived until very recently - thanks to community created content (most of the times, even paid content!).

EDIT: of course, let's not forget ZT2.

Modding is not necessarily a game killer. Most of the times, if managed properly, modding extends the shelf life of games. Look at steam charts for the above games: the trend is with time, more players play. With PlanZoo we have the opposite trend...

Imagine if Frontier supported modding with "we support you to modify current in-game animals to create sub-species or species of the same genus. Here are the tools.". That would enhance massively the available animal list. Or do we actually think that Frontier is ever going to provide a Malayan & Brazilian tapir, Sumatran Tiger, Asian Lion, Black and white ruffed lemurs, Caribbean Flamingo, Massai Giraffe....... ?? Plain and simple: no. At the end of the day, the community is going to benchmark the mods: if quality is not good enough, they won't be popular. And if there's a highly popular Malayan Tapir mod - rest assured it will be of high quality.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

With respect, we have no idea about those animals and whether we will get them or not. But we have heard absolutely nothing to suggest that we won't. I'm not sure why you think anything has been 'sealed', surely the aquatic pack is an indication that animals from specific continents can still find their way into the game, even if they weren't included in the initial regional themed pack.

I'm not saying we won't get any more animals from other continents. I'm just saying we won't get animals that are considered similar. Lets take the penguin as an example. I'm not completly sure, but I guess that's the "main" animal in the aquatic pack. The animal a lot of people longed for and bought the pack for initinally. Just like the polar bear was for the arctic pack, the jaguar for south america and I guess the koala for the australia pack.
Do you really think they will put a similar staple animal in an africa pack, maybe say next to a meerkat? They would draw people that do not buy every pack away from the aquatic pack. And lets not forget the backlash from those who aren't as crazy about diversity as we are - for them, an african penguin would be a clone animal that just takes away a spot.

Same goes for the other animals mentioned. @Tobs is right. The ony solution to this, if Frontier does not want to or can not provide bigger packs, they should at least support modding to let others fill the gap. As others have stated, modding can prolong the shelf live of a game and even improve sells. That's why Simplayers buy every silly pack - because for some mods you need specific objects. If we, say, would need the aquatic pack to get an modded asian otter, it would be the same.

You know I absolutely love your idea of the monthly surprise animal and I support it wholeheartly. But seeing how blind Frontier is to suggestions the community reacts well to, I even doubt they saw it already, let alone consider it as a business model. It has been way too often that we had to direct them specifically to a thread to notice something. I know Chanté said there is a meeting every week, talking about popular threads. In all honesty, I don't think that they mean a lot.One of my thrteads, where I talked about animals not being the stars of the game, was also very popular once. They didn't even take ministeps from it in a better direction. They sleep on a lot the community wants or does. My personal proof for that is only a few days old...

Spoiler: Another train of thoughts

A bit of topic, but: Honestly, I mean no disrespect to the team, but we really really really need more zoo enthusiasts that know a lot about zoos onto the team. And some really interactive and chatty CMs that do not vanish every three month and can read a room and feel when the mood shifts - and act on it. People who do not only have 3-5 content creators in their radar, but the whole community. Recreations of RL zoos alone show what staple animals are missing and what species are prefered. You can not only look at one zoo and be done with it.

 

[PeppyPepp]

I think they do know what we want, but there are certainly some restrictions and obstacles in place which means it's impossible to get everything we wish for. Oftentimes you will hear how developers really want to make a great game that aligns with the wishes of the players, but can't because they are restricted, either with time, money, people, etc. Just the other day I was listening to an interview with one of the lead developers of the Elder Scrolls series and he said something similar.

Speaking of Elder Scrolls and mods, I think this long time video game series is a testament to how mods can enhance the games. Their latest entry in the series, Skyrim, has sold over 30 million copies across all platforms. Bethesda is known to release modding kits to fans (and the devs have even directly taught fans how to use them!) because they know it will prolong and enhance their game. Thanks to mods, people today still play Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim (myself included). I even saw a remaster of Daggerfall the other day. I know Planet Zoo and Elder Scrolls are completely different games, with different studios, and different player bases. But my point still stands. Frontier should absolutely not be afraid of providing modding tools to us, at least at the end of PZ's life. If you create a great game and release great content, people will buy your products and support you, even with mods available. Sadly, I don't think we will ever get to see modding tools for animals in PZ.

I think one of the issues might also be is that PZ is the sister of PC. Themes make sense in a theme park with roller coasters, not so much in a zoo. Don't get me wrong, I like all the building pieces we have, but we also need more general, not themed pieces. Realistically, how many zoos has highly themed areas appropriate to the animals' biome or geographical location? It's great we can create all that, but I feel we need more realistic building props which are something you would see in a real zoo. With the Aquatic pack, it was definitely a step in the right direction, with the wall murals and faux rocks, but I feel the game is really lacking here. What always bothered me a little bit is also the very small selection of habitat fences. We have around 10? I think? A small number for a zoo game, in my opinion.

I feel like I'm rambling, but I want to add one more thing. I don't think we will get more than 4+1 animals in packs. I just don't see it, unfortunately. I feel like it will continue until the game's development cycle is over. Planet Coaster had 3-year support, I don't see it that long for PZ. I feel like we lost steam somewhere along the way. With each pack, there's a surge of excitement and content for about 2 weeks and then it all dies down. These packs are just too small and the free updates just don't bring enough content. As a franchise player, we haven't gotten any major new improvements to the managing system of the game. Aside from the genealogy update (which I honestly think a lot of people didn't understand - myself included - and I rarely see it mentioned at all) and the implementation of educators (which also soon became "just another thing to put down"), the franchise hasn't gotten any major improvements. I know a lot of people play sandbox, but as someone who plays franchise almost exclusively, it bothers me that I see no challenge in it anymore. I really wish for more deep and meaningful managing in the franchise mode.

I hope this reads as constructive criticism and not complaining. I am a massive fan, as we all are on this forum, but I do echo the same statement as most players - the game has so much potential and we don't feel like it will ever reach its fullest.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Again, ETS2 and American Truck Simulator, they have a long live because they support modding

Tbh, modding isn't a huge thing in ETS2. Most people play it without mods. It's just a very distinct market with very loyal fans (truckers culture)
Total War Warhammer 2, just a popular title.
Cities Skylines - huge modding community. Don't know much about the game/community, so can't argue with that one
Some games/franchises are just popular on their own.

Modding is not necessarily a game killer. Most of the times, if managed properly, modding extends the shelf life of games. Look at steam charts for the above games: the trend is with time, more players play. With PlanZoo we have the opposite trend...

I somewhat doubt if that's the case. There is no clear distinction if this has to do with modding, good DLC or just good replayability of a game (or die-hard fanbase)
Example: Planet Coaster

There are countless games on which mod support doesn't extend the shelf life. The examples are mostly the same ones, and open-world RPGs - usually very interesting with mods but that's a very different gaming experience compared to strategy/sims/management games.

Don't get me wrong, not "bashing" your comments. I just don't automatically assume when a game has mods and still doing good, it's because of that.
Just want to point that out, sometimes when typing things out on a forum, they read a bit harsh.

You are right about the game killer part but when there are online parts, that's when i'm very hesitant.
Quick example: GTAV and GTA online, I don't mind if people change their own singleplayer experience but those are also used to mess with the online part. A lot of people (and a lot) hate online because you can't play the game without running into cheaters. I played Shadow of Mordor with online conquests, same problem. They are ruining the experience for a lot of players.
And mods only for singleplayer - well that basically never happens because modders find a way to use it for every mode. Maybe even ruining your zoo/franchise when you buy a modded animal and your game can't handle this.

In fact, most of the smaller DLCs are popular mods that the company decided to improve/optimise and release as a paid DLC.

Well, if there are 100 mods for a game - chances are that a DLC which have similarities. Some mods show the devs what's popular in the community but with some games they were already planned before that mod showed up. Sometimes there's an obvious gap. The building/house DLC for Skyrim was a good one - first a popular mod and the official DLC later.

One of my thrteads, where I talked about animals not being the stars of the game, was also very popular once. They didn't even take ministeps from it in a better direction.

Well, the forum is usually meant for the community to discuss things.
There are a lot of gaming forums where suggestions are just being discussed - never to be added to the game.
People assume when something is highly requested - that a dev has to implement this. Usually accompanied with the comparison with EA games, which are mostly done by people not understanding what EA is actually doing or did in the past - just jumping on the popular anti-EA bandwagon
(don't like EA either, btw)

i think there's a time and place for mods but at this moment, that's a no for me.

 

[paul78]

I often wonder if they added the 30-40 most requested animals to this game how long would that hold people over for? I say this because not every animal will make the game for sure. I personally play sandbox and to me the game never gets boring honestly there’s just way too much I can do. With my experience of zt2 and mods it seems a great majority of people on the forum don’t regularly play the game. Sure the mods draw in newbies but my experience after mods and being in the community for a long time was the mod was the same way hold me over for awhile but at the end of the day it was still the playing the same old game that bored me eventually of zt2 even with mods still being pumped out at a pretty good pace. The draw for PZ even tho the game is fairly new is the depth you have in being able to terraform and create amazing looking habitats and objects that keeps the excitement up for me. Don’t get me wrong the game has needs such as more realistic building materials and of course animals. If frontier adds the right assortment of animals I really just don’t see myself wanting or needing mods really.

 

[NL_Mutso]

These packs are just too small and the free updates just don't bring enough content

Not much to "complain" about free updates
Mentioned this before: Stop doing the free updates and put that content in the DLC. DLC has more content thay way (like ZT2 did)
i agree with you on the franchise part, some more attention to that mode would be nice. Sandbox got several tweaks/extra options in updates.

And lets not forget the backlash from those who aren't as crazy about diversity as we are - for them, an african penguin would be a clone animal that just takes away a spot.

At this point i'd prefer other unique species over the choice of diversity. The 1 animal per month idea from Markun would actually fit diversity very well imo.
If the first African DLC pack has the African Penguin, not the biggest fan of that choice. No issues when the animal roster has increased.

 

[markun]

I'm not saying we won't get any more animals from other continents. I'm just saying we won't get animals that are considered similar.

But we got the arctic wolf and then the dingo.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

But we got the arctic wolf and then the dingo.

I honestly do not consider the Dingo similar to the Wolfs and the Arctic Wolf was prior to all Feedback and brought quite a backlash. Besides that, even though I want the animals I mentioned, when we keep on getting only 4 slots, I'd be raising my eyebrows as well.