Do Solo/ Co-op Players have a Future in Elite?

[Genus]

His point is that you cant divide the community into two groups. People can switch modes, people arent tied to red or blue shirts. So it makes no sense to say "open players keep logging into Solo' or 'solo players keep logging into open'; its just people playing in multiple modes.

Btw, didnt dare to ask earlier: were you rooting for manchester or chelsea?

Hang on...I need to make sure that I'm not that drunk. So he's saying further than the limitations of cargo, OOPPs items and points disappearing when you log out of Open into Solo, he's just on about modes as things stand and in general? Okay I just answered my own question didn't I. Shiny.

Anyway...neither.

I'm a Tottenham fan. So the Cup Final was a bit of an exercise in arbitrage, on a personal level. Can I say I have mixed feelings on both sides? I don't do tribal football, as I was a rugby player. Also, as a Spurs fan, I'm supposed to hate Arsenal, but controversially I quite like the way Wenger had them playing. I mean he got them playing football, rather than the long ball rubbish they used to play, and that's the reason I've always supported Spurs. Point is, that London rivalry thing has been replaced for by Chelsea and their thuggery and falling over. But then Mourihno, is the manager of Man Utd...

I wish my cousin Ned was here, he knows these things.

The game was dull as frack anyway. The wine was good though.

 

[Tarman]

EVE does not have cockpits?

Are they all flying around with outside views, or just nothing in front of them?

Either way, I would never be able to play it.

Outside views; many of the ships logically don't have cockpit glass or even a cockpit since the pilot is in a control pod at the heart of the ship, extending their consciousness into big-picture control. Some of the ships are also far more massive than anything that exists in Elite even for the NPCs; you get actual battlecruisers and stuff, and not just a giant fighter like the Annie.

EVE combat itself is more like standard MMO fitan, based more on activating appropriate skillsets and counterskillsets, that kind of thing. It's often won before the fitan starts by excellent planning, building and teamwork. Complex but not nearly as visceral as Elite fitan which is much closer to FPS in conceptual terms. Yeah there's ten billion doods in an EVE warzone but nobody is flying in realtime, and the instance can slow down in some of the epic battles as it's not based on reaction time of the ship commander but on how the skillsets are firing off.

You don't hard-right the stick and do any boosting, as it were, which is the spaceship-centric piloting gameplay I was looking for and didn't exist there. You can be Jabba (financial empire) or Tarkin (fleet command) much better than you can be Han when playing EVE; Elite is the Han Solo one-guy "punch it" gameplay angle as far as ship operation, as you actually are in realtime control of your currently-piloted vessel. EVE ships even by ingame concept are just far too complex to be stickin' it.

 

[A D]

Not sure it makes any difference to FD whether players use solo or open.

However, since the introduction of the new C & P system (broken or not) griefing seems to be reduced to a simmer, so there is no reason not to play open. Personally, I think ED would be better if all players used open. The game would be more cohesive and real player interaction would increase in all areas.

I think griefers (not talking about genuine p v p players) failed to realise how divisive their actions were. They actively discouraged players from using open, perpetuated the open v solo debate and ultimately caused FD to introduce a band-aid C & P system, all of which could have been avoided had they shown a little self restraint.

 

[Tarman]

Not sure it makes any difference to FD whether players use solo or open.

However, since the introduction of the new C & P system (broken or not) griefing seems to be reduced to a simmer, so there is no reason not to play open. Personally, I think ED would be better if all players used open. The game would be more cohesive and real player interaction would increase in all areas.

I think griefers (not talking about genuine p v p players), failed to realise how divisive their actions were. They actively discouraged players from using open, perpetuated the open v solo debate and ultimately caused FD to introduce a band-aid C & P system, all of which could have been avoided with a little self restraint.

Maybe if our more shooty-liking folks had had some meaningful and enjoyable gameplay provided wherein they could also potentially shoot people they wouldn't have bled out of the eyes from boredom in the first place. Didn't help that there were years of telling them they sucked as human beings for shooting people in a video game in game-allowed ways and should die IRL because they were psychopathic. Totally seen that in here since forever.

I have to pin this on FD and not any players on any side. FD promoted the game partly by saying it had a bunch of MP-in-spaaaace features, and then kind of remembered in what seems just the last few months that they should probably have made those features worth playing, or in many cases, just simply have made them. So far most of the offerings have been pretty meh or don't yet exist.

 

[Frenotx]

Hang on...I need to make sure that I'm not that drunk. So he's saying further than the limitations of cargo, OOPPs items and points disappearing when you log out of Open into Solo, he's just on about modes as things stand and in general? Okay I just answered my own question didn't I. Shiny.

The only restrictions being proposed are:

• Powerplay contacts are only available to players in open
• Powerplay vouchers and commodities are destroyed if a player enters solo or private groups

So yeah. Nothing is stopping you from switching back and forth between modes as you see fit. The only times a open is "needed" is if you're shifting powerplay cargo, gathering merit vouchers, or collecting your salary. Once you've turned those items in, you can switch modes however you please without consequence. You don't lose your rank when you go into solo. All the rank bonuses and modules are still available to you when playing in solo.

 

[Sylveria]

Not sure it makes any difference to FD whether players use solo or open.

However, since the introduction of the new C & P system (broken or not) griefing seems to be reduced to a simmer, so there is no reason not to play open. Personally, I think ED would be better if all players used open. The game would be more cohesive and real player interaction would increase in all areas.

I think griefers (not talking about genuine p v p players) failed to realise how divisive their actions were. They actively discouraged players from using open, perpetuated the open v solo debate and ultimately caused FD to introduce a band-aid C & P system, all of which could have been avoided had they shown a little self restraint.

Exactly this. They are entirely to "blame" (if that's what we're looking for) for why Open is in the mess it is. The move for PP to Open is just a bone being thrown, but the reality is they won't stop until Open becomes the ONLY mode, and they finally have their "EVE-in-cockpits". You can bookmark my post for future reference if you disbelieve it.

 

[Aaron T]

Eve is a management control only type game, you set things in motion via (for want of a better description) selections on charts/panels/windows, and off you go. Outside views only.

Flimley

Thank you.

 

[Genus]

The only restrictions being proposed are:

So yeah. Nothing is stopping you from switching back and forth between modes as you see fit. The only times a open is "needed" is if you're shifting powerplay cargo, gathering merit vouchers, or collecting your salary. Once you've turned those items in, you can switch modes however you please without consequence. You don't lose your rank when you go into solo. All the rank bonuses and modules are still available to you when playing in solo.

So essentially what you're going to get is PvPers gathering around HQ's and strategic destinations rather than being able to nail participants in leaving stations? Although I'm sure that's going to be annoying too, for "non-combatants" (not the USian definition). PvP clusters which to all intents and purposes, makes certain systems unviable to anyone not wanting to PvP?

Thus before this is implementable, a PvP consent system needs to be put in place.

If this goes ahead, anyone not pledged can't be PvP'd in Open.

Even though I vehemently disagree with the efficacy of such a system and it's premise on the face of it due to design paradigm concerns. Which for me is the bigger box of frogs that needs to be addressed. Doing this makes that more difficult. In the mid-to-long term, across modes and in terms of the holistic system, ED will be guaranteed to suffer if the design approach does not change.

 

[Faybs]

Exactly this. They are entirely to "blame" (if that's what we're looking for) for why Open is in the mess it is. The move for PP to Open is just a bone being thrown, but the reality is they won't stop until Open becomes the ONLY mode, and they finally have their "EVE-in-cockpits". You can bookmark my post for future reference if you disbelieve it.

I'd love to believe you, if only because EVE in cockpits would mean that they fixed networking.

 

[Genus]

I'd love to believe you, if only because EVE in cockpits would mean that they fixed networking.

Design Paradigm change needed first.

 

[Faybs]

Design Paradigm change needed first.

A big one. Elite is a single player game, where players can see each other and interact if they feel like it, but there's no reason to do so other than small-scale combat. If FDev wants most players to be in Open, they're going to have to turn Elite into a real multiplayer game.

 

[Genus]

A big one. Elite is a single player game, where players can see each other and interact if they feel like it, but there's no reason to do so other than small-scale combat. If FDev wants most players to be in Open, they're going to have to turn Elite into a real multiplayer game.

That's going to take money and talent. Also, you know...reasons.

 

[Frenotx]

So essentially what you're going to get is PvPers gathering around HQ's and strategic destinations rather than being able to nail participants in leaving stations? Although I'm sure that's going to be annoying too, for "non-combatants" (not the USian definition). PvP clusters which to all intents and purposes, makes certain systems unviable to anyone not wanting to PvP?

Thus before this is implementable, a PvP consent system needs to be put in place.

If this goes ahead, anyone not pledged can't be PvP'd in Open.

Even though I vehemently disagree with the efficacy of such a system and it's premise on the face of it due to design paradigm concerns. Which for me is the bigger box of frogs that needs to be addressed. Doing this makes that more difficult. In the mid-to-long term, across modes and in terms of the holistic system, ED will be guaranteed to suffer if the design approach does not change.

You seem to be under the impression that all of the powerplay hotspots will be swarming with exclusively enemies, and no allies defending.

 

[Sylveria]

You seem to be under the impression that all of the powerplay hotspots will be swarming with exclusively enemies, and no allies defending.

You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you? Don't you know your "movement" has failed yet?

P.S., put that in your YouTube stream and smoke it.

 

[Genus]

You seem to be under the impression that all of the powerplay hotspots will be swarming with exclusively enemies, and no allies defending.

Thinking systemically, it will never happen. On the other hand, FD don't think systemically about ED.

Fortunately, either way I doubt OOPPs will be implemented in the short-term, due to the qualifying activities that will need to happen first.

So I'll have more tangible things to consider at the end of this year, I feel.

 

[Frenotx]

You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you? Don't you know your "movement" has failed yet?

What movement are your talking about? I'm an individual that individually supports FDev's proposed powerplay changes. I don't think the changes will singularly make powerplay amazing, but I do believe they will be a marked improvement. Not everyone is part of some conspiracy.

 

[Faybs]

You seem to be under the impression that all of the powerplay hotspots will be swarming with exclusively enemies, and no allies defending.

That does bring up an interesting point. One of the biggest problems with PP at the moment is people who are only doing it for the modules, and just do whatever without coordinating at all, which results in things like systems being undermined by 5000%. Due to instancing, anyone going off on their own (vs coordinated opposition in wings) is going to meet Mr Rebuy Screen rather often, so it's going to be in the best interests of even module tourists to coordinate via Discord so they can join wings. That should mean an end to inconsiderate fifth columning.

 

[Sylveria]

What movement are your talking about? I'm an individual that individually supports FDev's proposed powerplay changes. I don't think the changes will singularly make powerplay amazing, but I do believe they will be a marked improvement. Not everyone is part of some conspiracy.

Just most, right?

Yeah, conspiracy theories aside, no one's giving up here. You may continue to peck away all you like, using social media platforms and trying to propagandize what you feel this game *should* be about, but realistically what makes sense for FD is those who've actually spent money and affects their balance sheet. Not YouTube, not Reddit, not Facebook, etc.

Anyone can create a post saying "ZOMG I don't like this!!!!!!!". Not everyone actually spends the money on the game.

SJW movement is gone, buddy. Deal with it. Money talks, B$ walks.

 

[Genus]

That does bring up an interesting point. One of the biggest problems with PP at the moment is people who are only doing it for the modules, and just do whatever without coordinating at all, which results in things like systems being undermined by 5000%. Due to instancing, anyone going off on their own (vs coordinated opposition in wings) is going to meet Mr Rebuy Screen rather often, so it's going to be in the best interests of even module tourists to coordinate via Discord so they can join wings. That should mean an end to inconsiderate fifth columning.

Indeed, on the other hand, no more Explorer Data bonuses. What are you going to do? Hide in remote systems for a month on returning to the bubble? Or have to put up with a self-inflicted rationing of risk, in order to mitigate the chance of losing 6 months worth of bonging? Nah. Solo all the way.

And let's be honest, some Powers are more equal than others when it comes to the effectiveness of the special perks. It's going to render the specific modules and bonuses pretty much redundant, aside from the specific Power you choose, and maybe not even then. Even that will require a complete redesign, or all it will be in two months is pilots with hammers fighting pilots with prismatic shields.

Total mess. Every time I think on it, I'm more surprised it was announced as a suggestion.

 

[Faybs]

Indeed, on the other hand, no more Explorer Data bonuses. What are you going to do? Hide in remote systems for a month on returning to the bubble?

It's going to render the specific modules and bonuses pretty much redundant, aside from the specific Power you choose, and maybe not even then.

There used to be a group (Iridium Wing IIRC) who would escort explorers returning to the bubble. If they still exist, their services just became a lot more useful.