Does anyone else feel like Beyond is a graceful exit strategy ?

[SAB380]

Beyond final update will be around November time. So not sure why you would think it will go well over 12 months. The fact that the Q1 update has come out much earlier then we all thought and that the next 2 updates are minor lends me to believe they will hit the Q4 timmelin too.

They have already said that they have more paid for DLCs coming with at least one this year.

Basically, no I don't see it at all. Especially when they have only just released the game on PS4.

Just basing it on the Horizons updates taking far longer than initially expected and figuring Beyond may be the same - which is expected in software development, especially in a game like Elite. It’s not meant to be a criticism.
The final update is Squadrons (from memory) which has some significant updates and very new additions, but you’re right, they may get it out before the end of Q4.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Just basing it on the Horizons updates taking far longer than initially expected and figuring Beyond may be the same - which is expected in software development, especially in a game like Elite. It’s not meant to be a criticism.
The final update is Squadrons (from memory) which has some significant updates and very new additions, but you’re right, they may get it out before the end of Q4.

Something to remember, by the way - until 2.4, they were trying to maintain a 64-bit PC version in parallel with a 32-bit PC version, and keeping it consistent across both versions. When they ended support for the 32-bit version...well, before the file folder on the hard drive was around 25 GB. Download it fresh right now, 64-bit version only, is under 15 GB.

That's a heap of code right there that they had to work with from start till 2.4. A heap of code now reduced by 40%, freeing up resources and personnel to move forward at a better pace.

 

[Whitehair]

I need to wake up.

I saw "graceful exit strategy"and thought this was another Combat logging thread!

In short Op, no I don't. I enjoy the game and do not spend my time worrying about 'what might be', expecially as every other doom scenario since the kickstarter has failed to materialise.

 

[Willa Allason]

I think we'll get lifeless atmospheric planets and gas giants at the least.
I doubt we'll get space legs, and if we do it will be a token effort, and a waste of time in my humble opinion. It's a space game, about flying a space ship. Not an fps or a walking simulator. And a meaningful implementation would require a complete revamp of the game's entire mechanics. Leave the feature bloat to Star Citizen and retain the flight sim focus.

 

[Joe Akeem]

Oh, how I would want to work in a company whose clients constantly tell us how bad we are, that we're about to close up. A great morale boost...

 

[Oss133]

It's more of a niche game that needs guilds and factions with home bases to remain viable in the long run, otherwise it's just a rinse and repeat game with a series of parallel (see what I did there?)

No.

 

[znôrt]

“What went so wrong?”

where have u been all this time?

By all accounts 2M copies at between 25 and 60 dollars a pop.

actually, some more. but 1.5M was the base game alone. we don't have numbers but it appears horizons has fallen short, even with the console rush.

it's also obvious they have spent two years developing in circles, endlessly tweaking (randomly poking would be more appropriate) engineers and ship balance, producing filler features nobody expected, nor wanted, nor is particularly fond of. see powerplay, multicrew, holo me ...

I’m sure Braben, like many accomplished businessmen is dissatisfied with his product and intends to keep the improvements fire burning for the foreseeable future. Look at the second beta change list alone.

an accomplished businessman he is, as such i hardly think he is happy about the result.

A consistent player base that has actually expanded over the last year.

expanded? have you any numbers? i miss a lot of names around here. will see how for long the new console promotions wil last. last i checked my friendlist very few were still playing. it does have its inconditionals, and there is a nice community, and frontier do their best to exploit it, but i'm afraid you overestimate their numbers and relevance. you lot are not going to maintain this game with a few paintjobs or double accounts. it's still a thing because frontier currently swims in money.

This beta and their focus on nitty gritty rather than flashy

nitty gritty, yes, let me guess ... oh, yeah, the tech broker! turning c&p and engineers upside down ... i'm sure that will have a huuuuuge impact on the core game.

has rekindled my interest in this game.

good for you! graxxor, relax. i said it's cool. i plan to play a bit after a few weeks after release too. just be a bit realistic, horizons has been quite a flop compared to expectations. i can't believe braben is happy with that. but he has the folks he has, much code has been written and he has no way to go except forward (or dump the whole thing). he even woved publicly for that, but if anything this beta and the planned rushed release is indicator that nothing has fundamentally changed about ... nitty gritty. nitty gritty are the squares on the planets ...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Something to remember, by the way - until 2.4, they were trying to maintain a 64-bit PC version in parallel with a 32-bit PC version, and keeping it consistent across both versions. When they ended support for the 32-bit version...well, before the file folder on the hard drive was around 25 GB. Download it fresh right now, 64-bit version only, is under 15 GB.

That's a heap of code right there that they had to work with from start till 2.4. A heap of code now reduced by 40%, freeing up resources and personnel to move forward at a better pace.

Certainly not having the 32-bit version will have reduced some support and coding issues ... but it won't have been by anywhere near 40% - the size of compiled code and the size of source code are not very closely connected, especially in cases like this where it'll mostly be the same code compiled with different settings.

Well, technically, if it really was a supposed "ten year plan" from the start then they have about 3-4 years remaining. Development started in 2012. And we know what 2018 will bring (Beyond). So this is what we have after 6+ years...

Indeed, and Horizons on the "ten year plan" was supposed to take 1 year, and took 2. If the second half of the plan takes twice as long then it's now a "fifteen-year plan". (Sixteen, if you don't think "re-do engineers one more time" was always on the "ten year plan") Pretty clearly, if there was originally a ten-year plan it went out the window sometime around the release of 2.2 ... how long it actually lasts will depend entirely on how long people keep paying for it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Thoughts?

Only artists speculate they will quit at the high point in their careers - but they never really do.

No. Fact FD is careful about messaging is because people keep expecting all desired big features to drop any minute now. It is quite clear FD aims for atmospherics first, and even that will take some time to get there.

Also no company would invest 1 year worth of dev time in game if they would be looking for exit strategy. That sounds like...why.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Just basing it on the Horizons updates taking far longer than initially expected and figuring Beyond may be the same - which is expected in software development, especially in a game like Elite. It’s not meant to be a criticism.
The final update is Squadrons (from memory) which has some significant updates and very new additions, but you’re right, they may get it out before the end of Q4.

I don't think we should be basing it on horizons. As to how much horizons was late, we really do not know as they didn't give us a date for 2.4.

The removal of 32bit coding will speed things up somewhat, streamlining the update path. I think they maybe dropping DX10 at some point too and having it DX11 only will also help. Not too sure when that will Happen though.

So different circumstances, expect different results. And it already looks better with the Q1 update coming faster than we thought. I see that as the new benchmark with the new conditions. But I could be wrong and it maybe delayed, but at least they are giving themselves 8-9 months between updates to get it right.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Just basing it on the Horizons updates taking far longer than initially expected and figuring Beyond may be the same - which is expected in software development, especially in a game like Elite. It’s not meant to be a criticism.
The final update is Squadrons (from memory) which has some significant updates and very new additions, but you’re right, they may get it out before the end of Q4.

Not really. It was quite clear FD figured out they want to stretch Horizons soon after release - after initial feedback which said people wanted more of base game than Horizons features right away. They wanted to do that, they decided to that themselves, they said season pass turned out not to be good marketing strategy. So all this - and all console improvements and versions - took them 1 year longer than they originally assessed.

This time though it is quite clear that they really mean 1 year. So no delays.

What will happen after Beyond is your guess is good as mine...I expect FD to tell us around late summer/early autumn. I expect announcement of new model and first new DLC, not necessarily released this year, but we will finally know path forward.

I don't think we should be basing it on horizons. As to how much horizons was late, we really do not know as they didn't give us a date for 2.4.

The removal of 32bit coding will speed things up somewhat, streamlining the update path. I think they maybe dropping DX10 at some point too and having it DX11 only will also help. Not too sure when that will Happen though.

So different circumstances, expect different results. And it already looks better with the Q1 update coming faster than we thought. I see that as the new benchmark with the new conditions. But I could be wrong and it maybe delayed, but at least they are giving themselves 8-9 months between updates to get it right.

Judging by marketing strategy regarding pricing I expect Horizons to become new 'de facto' version of the game at the end of this year, and original game being retired - and all people still on fence will be offered to upgrade for 5 pounds.

As only real limit what might change is amount of memory to 8 GB and GPU with Direct3D 11.3, both are very reasonable requests these days, it might be ok approach.

I might be wrong though and FD might decide to keep it around.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Arguably, the "time has told" can also be applied to the naysayers who prophesy "game is dying" consistently, too.

Amazes me that some of the same people have been at it for 4 years.

Still, if they keep it up, eventually they will be right. Perhaps in 5-10 years, the game will be dying, and then they can point back to the posts they made back in 2013 to show what prophets they were!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Judging by marketing strategy regarding pricing I expect Horizons to become new 'de facto' version of the game at the end of this year, and original game being retired - and all people still on fence will be offered to upgrade for 5 pounds.

Ideally its something that needs to be done. Its holding back FD from beefing up the higher end NPCs a bit, as people without Horizons would struggle to compete with them. Just one fly in the ointment... Mac users.

Can only hope that behind the scenes FD have a project on for getting the compute shaders working with Metal, since its clear Apple have no intention of supporting later versions of OpenGL.

 

[babelfisch]

It would be stupid to invest time and effort in stuff like planet generation tech when you want to abandon the game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ideally its something that needs to be done. Its holding back FD from beefing up the higher end NPCs a bit, as people without Horizons would struggle to compete with them. Just one fly in the ointment... Mac users.

Can only hope that behind the scenes FD have a project on for getting the compute shaders working with Metal, since its clear Apple have no intention of supporting later versions of OpenGL.

The trouble is Metal 2 needs some love to get it on par with DX since Apple don't really care about computers these days, and that their vital money comes from phones.

A smart play would be to make a Vulkan option.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ideally its something that needs to be done. Its holding back FD from beefing up the higher end NPCs a bit, as people without Horizons would struggle to compete with them. Just one fly in the ointment... Mac users.

Can only hope that behind the scenes FD have a project on for getting the compute shaders working with Metal, since its clear Apple have no intention of supporting later versions of OpenGL.

Well, Metal 2 at least gives hopes for Mac commanders in that regard. Haven't heard anything from FD about this though - as usual if that's something they will confirm, it will be nice of course.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The trouble is Metal 2 needs some love to get it on par with DX since Apple don't really care about computers these days, and that their vital money comes from phones.

A smart play would be to make a Vulkan option.

Except Apple don't support that so its the same problem as OpenGL.

 

[Straker]

You know, I'm not afraid to engage in some negative banter about what I see as mistakes in the game but this thread is 110% pointless speculation and feels like just being negative for the sake of it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You know, I'm not afraid to engage in some negative banter about what I see as mistakes in the game but this thread is 110% pointless speculation and feels like just being negative for the sake of it.

That's what you get when it is a) fun speculate about the future b) everybody tries to be 'I told you so' man

Reality as usual is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Except Apple don't support that so its the same problem as OpenGL.

If thats the case then its Bootcamp city for the fruit people.