Does anyone think Fdev is ever going to rework engineering?

ConArtist

C
I came back to the game recently, and had played it back in 2015 (on xbox now I'm on PC) prior to the release of horizons and engineering. I'm not saying engineering should be removed or that it's a bad idea, just that in its current state it is horribly unbalanced.

For example, I decided to engage in PvP last night for s and giggles and because I had money to burn after make a few hundred million in the black. I knew full well I had little to no chance of winning a fight, but was curious. So I took my A-rated combat build Krait mkII (no engineering other than grade 1 fsd and dirty drives) and an npc Taipan slf. I engaged a Krait Phantom (fully engineered). My thrusters were disabled and my hull reduced to 1% in about a minute or 2 while his first shield bar was barely purple, and then he struggled to shoot down my npc slf for a minute or 2 while I rebooted. We had around the same window to fire on each other plus the slf on my side (I launched because of my lack of engineering). There was no clear skill gap, hell he had the far more maneuverable ship. Based on this the system seems thoroughly broken imo.

So if I ever want to engage in PvP:

A. I have to dedicate 6+ hours to collecting mats for only a few ships if that. Which let's be real not a single one of us truly enjoys doing if we do it efficiently or otherwise.

B. Try to set up PvP where we only have unengineered ships. Which seems difficult to set up.

And that's not mentioning that I hope to god I don't get ganked by someone with engineering. I know you're going to tell me to play in Solo, but that's clearly not what Fdev ever intended this game to be. The lack of offline mode, the BGS, and community events and goals all prove that they want a lively populated server for players to interact in. Also there are methods to avoid being interdicted or ganked as well, I know.

Engineering appears to have brought far more negatives than positives. It created a grind with a more than mundane gameplay loop and made it difficult for new players to join the community if they want to play in open, and there are plenty among us that have refused to even engage in the engineering system because of it. Either because it is such a grind or the power creep is so severe it makes gameplay loops unchallenging and therefore boring.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the ridiculous amount of potential for builds you can create, they absolutely nailed that, and an endgame grind should provide you an edge, just not a whole damn cliff.



TL;DR: I like the idea of engineering, but in its current state it is horribly flawed. Those with engineering should have an advantage to those that don't, BUT it shouldn't be like they enabled god mode. A The skill gap for a better unengineered pilot to beat an engineered inferior pilot shouldn't be so severe. The gameplay loops for mat gathering should be reworked and introduced more organically as well. It should be an addition to the game that increases the potential for different builds and setups, but doesn't detract from gameplay by making you so overpowered it's easy, and thus boring.
 

DemiserofD

D
You raise some good points, but something to consider is the way credit acquisition has changed since when the game was first released. In the original release, making a million or two credits per hour was fairly good, and fully a grading a ship took dozens of hours of effort- potentially hundreds in the case of a large ship.

Nowadays, making in excess of 200 million credits per hour isn't unheard of, so in reality, the amount of time it takes to fully set up a PVP ship is not inordinately in excess of what it once was. In point of fact, in many ways it's probably substantially more enjoyable now, as the different requirements to unlock the various Engineers require a broad variety of gameplay, rather than simply farming the most effective credit acquisition method of the day repeatedly until you have enough credits.

With all that being said, I'm not entirely sure why they decided to go with such overwhelming values when it came to engineering. The Boost could easily have been in the 20 to 30% range and still have felt quite valuable, but instead they decided to go for upwards of 70%, and far higher in some respects, such as Shields.

I do find it likely that some aspects will be rebalanced at some point in the near or distant future. The overwhelming dominance of Shield tanks is something that is well remarked upon in the forums, as well as the relative inefficacy of armored tanks. But, on the whole, I believe they think the game is in a relatively good spot, and most likely will not be making broad changes anytime soon.

Something you might hope for alternatively, is the expansion of tech brokers; they seem to be inclined, at the present, to putting various high powered items into them, which can make them available without needing to grind engineers. Assuming this trend continues, then it may be possible to create a competitive - if not terribly versatile- build at some point in the near future without having to unlock any engineers.

It may not be exactly what you want, but it's something, at least.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Engineering has already been reworked into it's current state. 3.0 I think it was, in early 2018. Balance might get tweaked in Odyssey, we don't know yet.

The actual engineering of modules is no longer an issue for PvP, it's gathering the mats & there are ways around that if playing the rest of the game is something you want to keep to a minimum. ime if you do play the rest of the game obtaining most mats is pretty organic, and the few that aren't can be obtained from materials traders.

ime the difference is skill in like for like ships far outweighs the difficulty in getting a competitive G5 combat ship, but I agree getting the ship has become the first step for a lot of people & concern that their ship might not be good enough sends many down the tortuous trail of trying different modules (engineering each one to the max before trying another).

Just fit an interdictor & start attacking random players & you'll pretty quickly come to the conclusion that most players are less well equipped than most NPCs so you don't need the best equipment, just don't have the worst ;)
 

rrobes

R
I'm not too enthused with engineering, so I've kept my fleet to a handful of ships. They are all topped out and require no further work. I've also kept a bunch of finished modules and still collect mats, 4 and 5 level, whenever they are available.

The current available game ships are variations on a theme and don't tempt me into purchase. I keep hoping to see some revolutionary designs or even new Marks of existing ships that address deficiencies. Then I would re-consider engineering.
 

WR3ND

WR3ND
Fundamentally? No, I highly doubt it. It may be made easier and so on, but the fundamentals of it are what they are.
It's the meta grind carrot and stick padding of the game progression game Frontier have made for players to play.
Basically, it's a means to an end both for the players of the game and Frontier themselves.

The real quality of the game is not in playing that game, but in playing what the game has to offer beyond idealized e-peen and obsessive opportunistic compulsions.

Now where was that pic again?

w301EKn.jpg


Conspiracy theater: No care was given to balance because that wasn't ever the point of Engineering, under the guise of Commander empowerment.
Alternatively, Frontier is entirely clueless about what meta progression and balance are in video games and the reasons for them. You decide. :p
 
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WR3ND

WR3ND
Bortas said:
6+ hours doesn't sound like a lot for an MMO, does it?

Most other MMOs I played required 10-100 times the amount of "grinding" to prepare oneself for PvP.
Click to expand...
From my experience, I'd honestly say you need at least a good 1000 horse in the game. That, or you're motivated like Bill Gates to pwn.

This is assuming you're already a halfway competent pilot.
 

gorankar

gorankar
At this point I doubt they will do anything that drastically changes engineering. Except maybe make it easier.
They seem unwilling to take anything away that anyone already has, so they can't really futz around with it too much without creating another legacy module fiasco. I still have a few modules that are either lighter or use less power than you could get from engineering today. That caused a tremendous amount of salt at the time.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
I agree that engineering is horribly imbalanced but so is the rest of the game regarding PvP.
With the current setup a dedicated combat ship will always outclass any other ship, this was already the case when the game launched and only got worse with all the additional defensive modules. Changing engineering isn't going to help much.
 

smiths121

S
If you do get an egineered ship trying to gank you, as long as its only 1, just iimagine you set up the duel, adn run!
You survived longer than the cool down period, so not sure why this should worry you, unless honour/roleplay says you cannot run from a fight.

A wing after you, is normally easy to spot in SC.

If you want to do PvP and be good at it, you need to engineer. You should be able to survive most 1 on 1 gank attempts without engineering. Hey spare a thought for the ganker, the poor sole has had to do PvE with relog exploit to get the engineering. The self loathing must be huge.

Engineering can help with other activities not really essential for most, the more sociable thr actviity the more engineering moves from optional to required.

Simon
 

Chi Drifter

Chi Drifter
I engineered my whole fleet of 40 ships then took them to Colonia ,then they changed engineering so I came back to the bubble and did it all again.....if they change it again I'll change games.....its fine how it is .
Thanks-)
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
While I would have liked the power creep to not be so high, I doubt they will be changing it. As I said to another, the game is predominantly PvE but you can PvP if you want to. As a PvE player, I find engineering perfectly fine. But I can see why a dedicated PvP player wouldn't like it, because it means having to grind to get all the engineered modules they want as soon as possible.

Personally I would like Fdev to being out a new game called Elite:Battlegrounds and have it centered around PvP, set in one large system (no hyperjumps), where there is a continuous fight between 4 factions and they can choose their loadout.
 

Bortas

Bortas
-VR- Max Factor said:
Personally I would like Fdev to being out a new game called Elite:Battlegrounds and have it centered around PvP, set in one large system (no hyperjumps), where there is a continuous fight between 4 factions and they can choose their loadout.
Click to expand...

Personally I do like PvP not as my main activity, but as an integral part of normal gameplay. I wouldn't want to play a pure PvP game, but ED would be alot less enjoyable for me without the occasional PvP engagement. NPCs just can't convey any reasonable sense of danger.
 

Arindor

Arindor
The only way FD can fix engineering is by removing it :D :D. In my opinion, it's a wearisome mechanic which isn't really aimed at the casual gamer who just wants to jump in a ship and do combat without any faff. :)
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Bortas said:
Personally I do like PvP not as my main activity, but as an integral part of normal gameplay. I wouldn't want to play a pure PvP game, but ED would be alot less enjoyable for me without the occasional PvP engagement. NPCs just can't convey any reasonable sense of danger.
Click to expand...
I have nothing against the PvP in the game thats here. I'm just tired of dedicated PvP players trying to turn a predominantly PvE game into a specialised PvP game.
 
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