Does anyone think Fdev is ever going to rework engineering?

[Navigare Necesse Est]

That's what happens if you crank up the powercreep to 11. You may trap players in a honeytrap but for new players it's just a huge entry barrier.
An entry barrier to gameplay that was vanilla and accessible before I might add.
It's just the same with PvE, the enemies arent that powerful but the presence of OP upgrades has inflated the HP beyond any fun.

 

[zimms]

I don't think so. Frontier didn't try to do a balance pass the last five years, they probably won't for the next.

Engineering is Frontier's way to prolong game time. They design their systems a bit on the grindy side and offer huge rewards because otherwise nobody would do it.

Engineering modules has been made a lot easier since Engineers v1, but the ridiculously high rewards stayed. And what we've seen so far from Odyssey it looks like Frontier is doubling down on that.

I've abandoned all hope this will ever change.

 

[Quantum Fluke]

TL;DR: I like the idea of engineering, but in its current state it is horribly flawed. Those with engineering should have an advantage to those that don't, BUT it shouldn't be like they enabled god mode. A The skill gap for a better unengineered pilot to beat an engineered inferior pilot shouldn't be so severe. The gameplay loops for mat gathering should be reworked and introduced more organically as well. It should be an addition to the game that increases the potential for different builds and setups, but doesn't detract from gameplay by making you so overpowered it's easy, and thus boring.

I would be shocked if they changed any features they implemented in fundamental way how they work. It's too bad they went with Engineers in the way of pure upgrades, but with Odessey here, you can see that's how they want it (with g5 laser rifle having several times higher DPS). So if you want to do well in PvP you have to play meta. I'm sure you would do better in FDL with even g3 upgrades. It was like that years ago and I doubt it changed.

I wish they went with route of sidegrades and actual tradeoffs or even better, the original idea where you would have sever types of modules, each with different benefits and different visuals on the ship... but unless Elite V happens, it is how it is and we have straight progression e -> a -> g5

 

[Yaga-Shura]

A. I have to dedicate 6+ hours to collecting mats for only a few ships if that. Which let's be real not a single one of us truly enjoys doing if we do it efficiently or otherwise.

I actually enjoy gathering materials, raw in particular.

 

[Bottom Hat]

What are a lion's favorite type of materials to collect?

Roar.



I've already got my coat...

 

[Ytterium]

--> Crutches on Fighter Lag
--> Still gets destroyed
--> "Skill level was roughly even"

Go do engineering its worth it, and if you don't put in the time, don't get annoyed that your ship is worse than the people that did. Engineering is really strong and that's probably not changing. If you want to PvP, either get a friend to do it casually or get a fully engineered ship. Its not mandatory by any measure, its a matter of you choosing to engage in a high skill high investment floor activity and complaining when you aren't winning without putting in the time investment.

Edited for formatting

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

--> Crutches on Fighter Lag
--> Still gets destroyed
--> "Skill level was roughly even"

Go do engineering its worth it, and if you don't put in the time, don't get annoyed that your ship is worse than the people that did. Engineering is really strong and that's probably not changing. If you want to PvP, either get a friend to do it casually or get a fully engineered ship. Its not mandatory by any measure, its a matter of you choosing to engage in a high skill high investment floor activity and complaining when you aren't winning without putting in the time investment.

Edited for formatting

"Go overpower your ship - it's worth it." No it's not. It trivialises the game.

"It's not mandatory but you better do it when you want to have fun." It's pretty mandatory.

"You choose to suck or be successful." That's the thing with gear driven progression, can't imagine why anyone would choose to suck but that's just me.

 

[Ytterium]

"Go overpower your ship - it's worth it." No it's not. It trivialises the game.

"It's not mandatory but you better do it when you want to have fun." It's pretty mandatory.

"You choose to suck or be successful." That's the thing with gear driven progression, can't imagine why anyone would choose to suck but that's just me.

I mean if you want to be cynical sure. Strictly speaking its a choice. if OP wants to git gud at pvp, engineering is part of that. PvP and Thargoid Euthanasia are the only engineering mandatory activities. Hell you can even euthanize thargoids in unengineered ships--at least the cyclops and scouts. Point is, its not written anywhere that to "succeed" in elite you have to have or be anything in particular.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I mean if you want to be cynical sure...

The funny thing is that it's not me being cynical, but rather the design

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

To answer OP question:

They dumped a broken looter system on players. It was designed to be used with a cash shop but they removed the cash shop because they promised so. They have no idea how bad it worked - noone really plays it themselves.
It takes another two years to identify problems and get some intern work over some tables for cheap. Finally someone figure out some couple core problems after asking forum mods what I have been complaining about all the time. They pump out a cobbled together new version and never touch it again.

No I don't think they will ever rework engineering. In fact they just copy and pasted it and reused it for ODY. And they even made the same mistakes again.

 

[Chorda]

Engineering was meant to be a sidegrade system where you could maybe do things like tweak a FAS to be a viable explorer etc. That would've been cool. Instead we got an upgrade system that exacerbates asymmetric gameplay (gankers vs paper-thin traders), allows for AFK credit farmers, and has people so heavily invested in the grind that to change it would cause a spike in the shares of pitch-fork manufacturers worldwide. This is probably why they allowed legacy engineering mods to carry over into the last engineering update, too.

The current engineering system might have been better had their Wings update actually allowed for stuff they showed in the trailer.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23GEX4pYL9w

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

To answer OP question:

They dumped a broken looter system on players.

Funny that, it seems to work for most people. Maybe its the people that can't use it that have the issue and not the system.

It was designed to be used with a cash shop but they removed the cash shop because they promised so.

There was no cash shop to remove. This is complete rubbish and not true. And no it isn't designed with a cash shop in mind.

They have no idea how bad it worked - noone really plays it themselves.

I think you will find that most people engage with engineers at some point. So again, more rubbish.

It takes another two years to identify problems and get some intern work over some tables for cheap. Finally someone figure out some couple core problems after asking forum mods what I have been complaining about all the time. They pump out a cobbled together new version and never touch it again.

Seems to work perfectly fine. How is it cobbled together?

No I don't think they will ever rework engineering. In fact they just copy and pasted it and reused it for ODY. And they even made the same mistakes again.

No I don't think they will. There is really very little reason to do so at the moment.

 

[m0rl0ck]

The theory is that the longer you keep people in game, the more they will buy micro currency for cosmetics.
So game companies make you grind to keep you in game.
Engineers wont change as long as FD is making money from the frontier store. If you dont like engineering, send FD a message that counts. Boycott the frontier store.

 

[Shadowed]

I still feel like Elite 1.5 was the best. 2.0 aka Horizons ruined fast paced pvp. Ships died fast back then.

 

[WR3ND]

I still feel like Elite 1.5 was the best. 2.0 aka Horizons ruined fast paced pvp. Ships died fast back then.

I think Engineers was 2.1, wasn't it? But yeah, too much power creep for the sake of power creep and meta game-play. I like the basic idea of having ships Engineered a bit for this or that, but the implementation isn't fun for me to play through, so for the most part I don't bother with it and can't realistically function very well in Open where PVP combat is a relevant factor. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make while still enjoying other aspects of the game... or maybe I'm just too lazy.

Well, big fan of Horizons otherwise (telepresence not withstanding), though of course I'd have liked to see more world types like gas giants and so on.

 

[Defacto]

Gameplay was carefully designed and balanced. Gameplay was good. (subjective of course but I liked PvP in the early days)
Then things were added to game. No time for careful design and balancing, because the game is released and players want PATCH NOW!!1
Things added to game change gameplay. Now, the gameplay is not carefully designed and balanced. Gameplay is not as good anymore.
Now, the developer can do one of the following:

1. Try to change existing features to make them work better. Everyone in the community will argue about balance and give biased feedback to preserve their meta playstyle. People will complain and ask why no new groundbreaking features added in the last 3 months, game is dead perhaps????

2. Forget about the broken features and add new groundbreaking features! That breathe life into the galaxy! Armstrong moment! Reddit picture material with many upvotes! Nice trailer! Buy cosmetics for the thing! Help support developer by paying for groundbreaking new feature! Everyone in the community still complains, but also buy the DLC and player counts reach a new record high.

What will the developer do?

I think engineering was a huge mistake, but that's easy for me to say. I understand FD's situation too.
If I were to implement one big change in the engineering system, it would be this: completely remove all net upgrades. Make engineering about sidegrades, customization, tuning. In general, engineering should add interesting features that change gameplay, in return for a reduction in some other stat.

Don't give people power creep in exchange for grind. Give people complexity and depth instead. This avoids stratifying the game by increasing the power disparity between players. A lot less gratifying perhaps, but ultimately I think that this will help the game.
Maybe it will even make PvP interesting (in my subjective opinion) again! But all of this is easy for me to say. It needs to be properly implemented and balanced to work. And any such change will always generate a lot of anger and irritation in some part of the community.

 

[Brrokk]

"Go overpower your ship - it's worth it." No it's not. It trivialises the game.
...

Wait, over in another thread you were saying it's not possible to play without engineering. At least one of your statements is rubbish. I think both.

 

[WR3ND]

Given what the game and Engineering is and has been for many years now, I'd like other ways to go about Engineering at any rate, like doing missions for Engineers and so on.

If I recall correctly, this was deemed too difficult to implement at the time of the Engineers beta where we discussed it on the beta forum section.

 

[here_it_comes]

Nope, it isn't going to get fixed. We will forever have 1-3 usable blueprints per module with the rest being pointless trash, along with heaps of experimentals that are useless vs NPS (but ED doesn't tell you) or never worth taking compared to others.

 

[Welsh Wizard]

I still feel like Elite 1.5 was the best. 2.0 aka Horizons ruined fast paced pvp. Ships died fast back then.

Ships can still die fast now. Sit in front of any PvP build and see how long it takes. Paperthin lightweight ships will sometimes die in two shots +/- a ram. Big ships with prismatics, shield boosters and G5 engineering take a good while to kill but that is not necessarily wrong.