PvP Does Frontier need to Re-Think PVP rules of Engagement

Red Rocket

Red Rocket
A new online game is coming out and they have a new approach to PVP and griefing that I find very interesting. This is no way an endorsement or a conversation
of this game only about the PVP rules of engagement, Fallout 76 has a new bold approach set of rules for PVP.

When one first shoots another player, they take significantly less damage till they shoot back. If they shoot back, then it is on full PVP engagement
and if they don’t shoot back its obvious they don’t want to engage in PVP and damage in reduced. Now the person getting attacked can still be killed
and if they do and don’t shoot back then the shooter is tagged as a Wanted Murderer. He gets nothing for the kill and a bounty is put on his head,
the bounty comes out of his own account. With a Wanted Murderer tag you can’t see other players but they can see you and hunt you down for the bounty.

The online reaction I have seen to these rules of PVP have been very positive about trying to control the amount of senseless griefing
and allow players that don’t want to participate in PVP do so without playing in solo.
Todd Howard said about the rules quote “wanted to turn the (as-----s) into interesting content ”

keep the discussion to PVP rules of engagement and how they would apply to Elite Dangerous. These rules don’t stop PVP or griefing,
I have over 2000 hrs. in ED and have never met one person that doesn’t have but the lowest contempt for griefers.
I have many friends and when online they usually play in private group or solo, I am sure you have seen this trend also.

Griefing is just an online form of bullying that maybe time has come to an end.
 

Braandlin

Braandlin
I have zero interest in PvP.

But I say the rules for PvP are very clear. If you want to partake - you can... just fly open. If you don't then you have other options that prevent it but do not otherwise change your experience of the game.
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
It hasn't been field tested yet. I bet they'll revise the rules in Fallout 76 before long.

Anyway its a fine fine idea though I'm not sure it's suited to every game, and probably not suited to Elite.

Biggest obstacle, in my opinion? Frontier doesn't seem to be willing to award bounty payouts which justify doing actual PvP bounty hunting. I understand this is because they're afraid of collusion between players using it as a credit selling technique, but it's made bounty hunting into a big giant nothing.
 

flyauburn41

flyauburn41
Rubber Biscuit said:
A new online game is coming out and they have a new approach to PVP and griefing that I find very interesting. This is no way an endorsement or a conversation
of this game only about the PVP rules of engagement, Fallout 76 has a new bold approach set of rules for PVP.

When one first shoots another player, they take significantly less damage till they shoot back. If they shoot back, then it is on full PVP engagement
and if they don’t shoot back its obvious they don’t want to engage in PVP and damage in reduced. Now the person getting attacked can still be killed
and if they do and don’t shoot back then the shooter is tagged as a Wanted Murderer. He gets nothing for the kill and a bounty is put on his head,
the bounty comes out of his own account. With a Wanted Murderer tag you can’t see other players but they can see you and hunt you down for the bounty.

The online reaction I have seen to these rules of PVP have been very positive about trying to control the amount of senseless griefing
and allow players that don’t want to participate in PVP do so without playing in solo.
Todd Howard said about the rules quote “wanted to turn the (as-----s) into interesting content ”

keep the discussion to PVP rules of engagement and how they would apply to Elite Dangerous. These rules don’t stop PVP or griefing,
I have over 2000 hrs. in ED and have never met one person that doesn’t have but the lowest contempt for griefers.
I have many friends and when online they usually play in private group or solo, I am sure you have seen this trend also.

Griefing is just an online form of bullying that maybe time has come to an end.
Click to expand...

This is easy.

NO

One game’s approach to PvP does not necessarily belong in another one.

PvP works just fine the way it is.
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Rubber Biscuit said:
A new online game is coming out and they have a new approach to PVP and griefing that I find very interesting. This is no way an endorsement or a conversation
of this game only about the PVP rules of engagement, Fallout 76 has a new bold approach set of rules for PVP.

When one first shoots another player, they take significantly less damage till they shoot back. If they shoot back, then it is on full PVP engagement
and if they don’t shoot back its obvious they don’t want to engage in PVP and damage in reduced. Now the person getting attacked can still be killed
and if they do and don’t shoot back then the shooter is tagged as a Wanted Murderer. He gets nothing for the kill and a bounty is put on his head,
the bounty comes out of his own account. With a Wanted Murderer tag you can’t see other players but they can see you and hunt you down for the bounty.

The online reaction I have seen to these rules of PVP have been very positive about trying to control the amount of senseless griefing
and allow players that don’t want to participate in PVP do so without playing in solo.
Todd Howard said about the rules quote “wanted to turn the (as-----s) into interesting content ”

keep the discussion to PVP rules of engagement and how they would apply to Elite Dangerous. These rules don’t stop PVP or griefing,
I have over 2000 hrs. in ED and have never met one person that doesn’t have but the lowest contempt for griefers.
I have many friends and when online they usually play in private group or solo, I am sure you have seen this trend also.

Griefing is just an online form of bullying that maybe time has come to an end.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find one person's griefing is another person's shopping expedition. People consider any single act to be so at times, so where does one draw the line? Folks can't and wont agree because it's quite a devisive topic.

Which is why there are three modes and one can opt out or in at any time. Maybe bolstering reasons for each mode and improving the way interactions occur, for what reason, and so on might have more value.

But the game allows for some degree of action, regardless of desire and all Todd is doing is weaponizing vigilantes with an ability to strike back. Which is in keeping with the genre. It's a different game with a different mind set.

Elite wise, its apparent there is a desire to not want to be affected at all; striking back is almost never considered a reasonable act. Some will always desire a different path to the code of the warrior and you know I can respect that? But if I respect freedom to chose, then I have to accept that others have the same freedom. And thus it is on me, to make a choice, and to accept it. Open. Solo. Private Group. Choose often, I say. Spend time in all of 'em, if it works. Or just some.

Frontier could stand to improve the flow of combat; but the game allows for some to fix to be bad and that's intended. Right or wrong, folks have that choice. And whether repeat action or not occurs, comes down to policing the EULA and building more structure.
 
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Drelthar

Drelthar
Nope. This would just be losing even more internal consistency.

What's the explaination besides "game" ?

If there isn't one, not interested.
 

Curvemn17

Curvemn17
Rubber Biscuit said:
A new online game is coming out and they have a new approach to PVP and griefing that I find very interesting. This is no way an endorsement or a conversation
of this game only about the PVP rules of engagement, Fallout 76 has a new bold approach set of rules for PVP.

When one first shoots another player, they take significantly less damage till they shoot back. If they shoot back, then it is on full PVP engagement
and if they don’t shoot back its obvious they don’t want to engage in PVP and damage in reduced. Now the person getting attacked can still be killed
and if they do and don’t shoot back then the shooter is tagged as a Wanted Murderer. He gets nothing for the kill and a bounty is put on his head,
the bounty comes out of his own account. With a Wanted Murderer tag you can’t see other players but they can see you and hunt you down for the bounty.

The online reaction I have seen to these rules of PVP have been very positive about trying to control the amount of senseless griefing
and allow players that don’t want to participate in PVP do so without playing in solo.
Todd Howard said about the rules quote “wanted to turn the (as-----s) into interesting content ”

keep the discussion to PVP rules of engagement and how they would apply to Elite Dangerous. These rules don’t stop PVP or griefing,
I have over 2000 hrs. in ED and have never met one person that doesn’t have but the lowest contempt for griefers.
I have many friends and when online they usually play in private group or solo, I am sure you have seen this trend also.

Griefing is just an online form of bullying that maybe time has come to an end.
Click to expand...

Uh, I don't have any contempt for griefers. Also, I don't believe there are any unless they are repeatedly ram killing you in the station etc. Just being interdicted and killed, nope, you clicked open. Also, FO76 pvp rules completely ruined any hope I had for it as a game and I believe it flies in the face of something that presents itself as post-apocalyptic. Also, most people I have spoken with are not interested at all in those "pvp" terms.

Lastly, trend? The trend has been going the other direction from what I have seen with more moving to open and FDevs un-quantifiable statement that more playersplay open than the other modes. Please ignore this request FDev.
 

Turd Ferguson

Turd Ferguson
thats great for FO 76 but there's a far more obvious and simple solution in Elite : official PVE mode so we don't have to use Mobius.

1 simple rule: do more than 20% hull or shield damage to another player, you get kicked out. for ever.
 

Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
The Fallout 76 rules wouldn't work well in Elite Dangerous, but I think there could be rules which work. Meanwhile, I'll fly in the Mobius group when I don't want the potential hassle.
 

andrewg_oz

andrewg_oz
For players who want to play *with* other players and not *versus* other players, Open is the only option. Solo is out. Groups are out too for new players; sometimes even long time players aren't aware of the large groups. Open is the only option, and saying 'playing open gives consent to unwanted combat' is merely wishful thinking.
 

Faybs

Faybs
Novo Mundus said:
Nope. This would just be losing even more internal consistency.

What's the explaination besides "game" ?

If there isn't one, not interested.
Click to expand...

Combat is already inconsistent. Why do players get hollow squares in the scanner and NPCs solids, even though C&P treats them all the same? That's the first thing that FDev needs to resolve - either players and NPCs are the same, or they get different rules. Anything else is just a source of frustration.
 

TheSynopticVision

T
Curvemn17 said:
You mean those complaining about open and pvp? Ya I agree, they are a-holes.
Click to expand...

One of the most prominent game designers and industry leaders around calls griefers a holes, his words reported on all the biggest gaming outlets, (https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-pvp-guide/) demonstrating, at least, that this is common knowledge in the industry.

Some random guy on a forum tries to argue that harmless PvE players are a-holes.

So sweet.
 
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