PvP Does Frontier need to Re-Think PVP rules of Engagement

[Arguendo]

ATR should be persistent and have way quicker response times.

So much the bold part!
And having them come in something other then the slowboats, aka Pythons and Vultures, would be nice. Placing overengineered Eagles (iEaglee for Imp systems) into the mix, with the shield weapons, would be a good start. Kiting ATR shouldn't be possible. You stay, you dead. You lowwake and stay in the system, you hunted until dead. You leave the system, you're ok. That is how Sandro (iirc) explained how ATR should work some time before their release. Newsflash; they don't.
And have they fixed the bug where ATR doesn't show up in CG systems yet? [where is it]

Bounties should be higher and the claims for CMDRs should be 100% and not capped at 2 mio, credits are useless anyways.

Bounties should be capped to the rebuy of the ship. The dead criminal pays his bounty + his rebuy. The bounty hunter gets up to the rebuy if the bounty is high enough. That makes it a no-win game for the criminal, because he always pays atleast bounty + rebuy. Add diminishing insurance to the mix and things will start looking interesting for the Bounty Hunter.

Go out of my way, bring lots of friends, just to have an inkling of a chance at 2 million credits? Nah. A 5 minute mission will make me a lot more than that [blah]

 

[peppi]

first of all let me be clear i do understand PvP its just not my cupotea

so would they rethink about the rules no i dont think so for PvP they work just fine
however they should reconsidder a pvp play section and keep open play away from pvp
i meen if you guys want to fight PvP then fight PvP and players who are into PvP

This way you get a fair game now you are only boosting about killing a corvette who os not equipped to fo PvP fighting
so actually you have no honner in destroying this ship but when you are facing a PvP outfitted Corvette and destroy the ship WoW then i say hell of a job

so my 2 cent about this is that the game should be changed and there are various ways to do this
either sepparate sections or put up defens weapons for those who dont play PvP

at this moment the majority of players choose private groups or solo so the whole open play thing is becomming obsolete
The PvP groups must have noticed that

anyway have fun

 

[Curvemn17]

first of all let me be clear i do understand PvP its just not my cupotea

so would they rethink about the rules no i dont think so for PvP they work just fine
however they should reconsidder a pvp play section and keep open play away from pvp
i meen if you guys want to fight PvP then fight PvP and players who are into PvP

This way you get a fair game now you are only boosting about killing a corvette who os not equipped to fo PvP fighting
so actually you have no honner in destroying this ship but when you are facing a PvP outfitted Corvette and destroy the ship WoW then i say hell of a job

so my 2 cent about this is that the game should be changed and there are various ways to do this
either sepparate sections or put up defens weapons for those who dont play PvP

at this moment the majority of players choose private groups or solo so the whole open play thing is becomming obsolete
The PvP groups must have noticed that

anyway have fun

There are plenty of options for defense tho that anyone can use to escape. They just need to commit to engineering like most have. The simple answer is just because you’re not going to pvp doesn’t mean you get to avoid engineering. Then fly a ship that can 1. Jump far 2. Goes fast, example boost over 600 3. Run chaff, drop mines behind you, PD, or go SR and heat sink away as you drop off their radar.

If you want to fly a combat ship then you’re fair game.

 

[Dirtbird]

Rules of engagement? What rules of engagement? No change is necessary. I welcome the diversion from the usual tedium of shuttling stuff from A to B.

I've had two PvP deaths in my probably ten or so PvP encounters, most of which I escaped (usually fairly easily) due to my assessment of a very low chance of winning the fight. Typically, I'm on the receiving end of interdictions by more powerful vessels.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Rules of engagement? What rules of engagement?

Marquess of Queensberry rules?

 

[bladebss]

And when some one rams you... does that count as you shooting them? Or are they attacking you?

What if some one decides to use the fact they havent shot you to kill you buy ramming you?

I like the unknown risk of open. I dont want a pvp server and i dont want a pve server i want the mix. I like that any thing could happen vibe.

So thats a no from me.

I also dont like that its in fallout to the point im not buying it.

 

[Kaocraft]

Got blown up by a griefer Anaconda while docking at an outpost station yesterday. Anacondas can't dock at these stations he was literally there just to blow people up while they were docking. I seriously doubt that there is any combination of incentives and disincentives that would prevent people like this from doing what they do. No need for rules of engagement. We already have three modes and a "block player" option.

 

[Bigmaec]

Got blown up by a griefer Anaconda while docking at an outpost station yesterday. Anacondas can't dock at these stations he was literally there just to blow people up while they were docking. I seriously doubt that there is any combination of incentives and disincentives that would prevent people like this from doing what they do. No need for rules of engagement. We already have three modes and a "block player" option.

Care to tell a bit more about the encounter?
Which system/outpost? Anarchy?

 

[deyot]

I haven't read the whole thread but what I've seen in a few reviews of Fallout 76 beta is that Bethesda's solution to PvP is fundamentally broken and very prone to a misuse. I don't want anything like it in ED.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

thats great for FO 76 but there's a far more obvious and simple solution in Elite : official PVE mode so we don't have to use Mobius.

1 simple rule: do more than 20% hull or shield damage to another player, you get kicked out. for ever.

One doesn't have to use Mobius, one can start there own private session and play however one wants.

 

[Morbad]

1 simple rule: do more than 20% hull or shield damage to another player, you get kicked out. for ever.

Sounds exceptionally easy to abuse.

I can build setups that are weak to the point where an accidental hit from a singe huge MC shot, any rail gun, any PA, any cannon, any missile, or any mine, would do well over 20% damage.

 

[Dread Lord]

A new online game is coming out and they have a new approach to PVP and griefing that I find very interesting. This is no way an endorsement or a conversation
of this game only about the PVP rules of engagement, Fallout 76 has a new bold approach set of rules for PVP.

When one first shoots another player, they take significantly less damage till they shoot back. If they shoot back, then it is on full PVP engagement
and if they don’t shoot back its obvious they don’t want to engage in PVP and damage in reduced. Now the person getting attacked can still be killed
and if they do and don’t shoot back then the shooter is tagged as a Wanted Murderer. He gets nothing for the kill and a bounty is put on his head,
the bounty comes out of his own account. With a Wanted Murderer tag you can’t see other players but they can see you and hunt you down for the bounty.

The online reaction I have seen to these rules of PVP have been very positive about trying to control the amount of senseless griefing
and allow players that don’t want to participate in PVP do so without playing in solo.
Todd Howard said about the rules quote “wanted to turn the (as-----s) into interesting content ”

keep the discussion to PVP rules of engagement and how they would apply to Elite Dangerous. These rules don’t stop PVP or griefing,
I have over 2000 hrs. in ED and have never met one person that doesn’t have but the lowest contempt for griefers.
I have many friends and when online they usually play in private group or solo, I am sure you have seen this trend also.

Griefing is just an online form of bullying that maybe time has come to an end.

The Fallout 76 system is about as bad as it gets! TOTAL CASUAL BULL!!!!! worst system in the history of open world PvP!!!!!! a Disgrace to the games industry!

 

[ilo]

Elite has this kind of non-combat zones (same as the division) in open mode. If you stay inside the station docking bay you are safe, once you get out you enter a pvp zone, I find it quite clear.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

The only takeaway of this is a (very) old lesson that FDev to this date has refused to learn. Reason? My best working theory is total lack of MMO experience by the original Decisionmakers.
That's also still displayed clearly in some of the balancing nightmares we've seen and still see, pointing to a total lack of Situational Awareness and frequently requiring huge moves which defy the term "balancing".

Experienced MMO teams tend to make single-digit to very low double digit percentage changes to their Balancing sheets. That's Balancing.
Here? Sometimes correcting moves had to be made that exceeded a full order of magnitude (!), while still forgetting rat tails which required adjustments down the line.
Not few full Balancing misses even remain untouched for extremely long times despite being glaringly obvious in plain sight.

Anyway, senseless Griefing/Ganking/Bullying/Disrupting/(pick your personal favorite)
- typically adds nothing to a MultiPlayer Game
- but can easily drive Customers away in large numbers over time
- which in turn significantly reduces Product revenue without any need if left unchecked
- requires harsh, firm, failsafe and swift countermeasures during the design Phase already
- ideally by incorporating it and letting the Game world balance itself, while proving Gameplay value for both sides

Other companies developing MMOs/MultiPlayer Games have long acknowledged the issue and actively plan ahead for it. They're smart and learned from the mistakes of others in the past.
FDev? Not so much. The current "C minus P" System (still lacking the P part entirely) being full of loopholes plus some entirely incompetent Authority NPCs still after a solid 4 years in speaks for itself.

Don't expect any of that to change and rather make a personal choice (Private Group/Solo), which luckily are Options to choose from.

In ELITE's "Open aka FFA PvP Arena" Mode, everything goes, anywhere, anytime, indefinitely. Lawless Anarchy, Galaxy-wide. That's how it always has been, never changed one bit since V1.0.0.
Plan & fly accordingly cause that's never going to change.

PS.
I've gotten so used to it that I basically accept it "as is".
It just happens to be a dystopian and utterly dysfunctional Galaxy, where laws exist only on Paper.
Your experience, skills, the own Ship, its Shields, Hull, Modules and Weapons are the absolutely only things you can depend on. That's all you got.

Simple, but works for me despite being "that PvE guy" that just happens to fly around in Open.

The last "PvP Ganker" who tried to jump me some days ago for example miserably failed. Didn't stand a chance.
But despite the usual no-comms, max firepower ultra-aggro instant attack, the annoying jousting... I wasn't mad at the guy. Not one bit.
He (in my books) did nothing wrong. Good Ship, 100% PvP Meta Weapons, not bad at flying. Just didn't stand a chance. I suggested several times for him to leave as his hull approached a critical level, which he eventually did.
Clueless Authority turned up several times (and left again *rofl*) to absolutely no effect. NPCs, MoM(tm) probably wouldn't be exactly proud.
But I guess that's the best "state of mind" one can and should apply when flying around in Open Play. The guy attacked "because he could" and I was in Open Mode. FFA. No harm done *shrugs*

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

F76's "solution" is a bad joke. Repeating that joke in the Elite universe won't suddenly make it funny.

 

[AP Birdman]

Is this another thread of people complaining they got shot at in open? Lol

 

[FNLWA]

don’t fly in open

Oh I'm so incredibly tired of this "argument". It's literally on the same level as "Don't want to get hit by a car? Then don't cross the street LOLOL". People want to play in open for various reasons and pvp is currently a mandatory part of it. This does not invalidate any problems or suggestions people might have in regards to the pvp mechanics.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Oh I'm so incredibly tired of this "argument". It's literally on the same level as "Don't want to get hit by a car? Then don't cross the street LOLOL". People want to play in open for various reasons and pvp is currently a mandatory part of it. This does not invalidate any problems or suggestions people might have in regards to the pvp mechanics.

It's nothing of the sort. Open is the mode where crossing the street is viable and done routinely, but where one is best served by looking both ways before stepping onto the pavement.

Private group is the mode where there are other cars, but ones driven by people you trust to not hit you.

Solo is a guarantee that there are no cars on the street at all.

 

[Omnislash.inc]

delete private groups = more people who hate griefers in open = more cops = less griefers.
adapt yourself to defence = griefers less dangerous for you = be better.
kill griefers = fun.
by playing PG and solo mode you favorise this situation.

 

[ilo]

delete private groups = more people who hate griefers in open = more cops = less griefers.
adapt yourself to defence = griefers less dangerous for you = be better.
kill griefers = fun.
by playing PG and solo mode you favorise this situation.

This is a nice attempt to turn the consequence into the cause, but I don't buy it.