Does the game need to teach new players more?

[Nerwan]

Just to give a bit of background, I'm loving the game at the moment and I love the new AI etc. It's great to have a bit of challenge finally but I've been wondering how new players are faring (sort of assuming they face easier NPCs than I do at my rank etc) and recently I've had the chance to find out. My nephew was round last week and I was showing him ED, I gave him a crack at some of the tutorials and he went home and decided to buy the game himself. He didn't buy horizons, just 1.6 (pocket money).


He got killed numerous times, but nevertheless got himself a Cobra 3 in quite short order with little help from me. He was still getting killed so I explained to him all the things that many of us take for granted (but at some point we didn't know) like:


* How 4 PIPS to shields makes a massive difference
* How to hi-wake to avoid being mass locked
* How a Cobra 3's speed can be used to outrun NPCs and how you have to judge whether to run or tank based on the type of enemy interdicting you.
* How to handle chain interdicting NPCs, judging whether you can keep low waking or have to hi-wake
* How hull reinforcements have a disproportionate effect on smaller ships and can make a sidey, for example, much tougher than you could achieve with shields.


I observed two things in my nephew:


1. Getting killed wasn't actually spoiling his enjoyment that much, he was still having a great time because unlike so many on the forums he didn't feel as though he ought to have mastered the game yet and he hadn't acquired a ship he felt like he'd invested a lot of time in so it didn't hit him nearly as hard that as it does some on the forums who having problems now and already have big ships.


2. Once he understood some of these things, he started having more fun, feeling like he was able to get away from the NPCs and acquiring skills.


So.. all of this made me wonder if the game should help new players out a bit more for example. What about having tips on the load screens? I'm imaging load screen tips that say things like "Putting 4 PIPs to shields when taking damage can increase your effective shields by 2.5x". I think this would really help new players! (And 1 or 2 older ones) because right now it's often the forum that teaches people these things and sometimes people turn up on the forum having played the game for 2/3 months, owning a big ship and still not knowing.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

So.. all of this made me wonder if the game should help new players out a bit more for example. What about having tips on the load screens? I'm imaging load screen tips that say things like "Putting 4 PIPs to shields when taking damage can increase your effective shields by 2.5x". I think this would really help new players! (And 1 or 2 older ones) because right now it's often the forum that teaches people these things and sometimes people turn up on the forum having played the game for 2/3 months, owning a big ship and still not knowing.

Some in game way of giving tips that isn't intrusive would be a boon to many.

One thought I have is in contacts there are several people you could 'talk' to similar to the mission givers. there could be the 'old spacer', the 'bold spacer', the 'retired trader', etc that could import such pearls. There could even be the 'drunken spacer' that gives gibberish most of the time. This would make it feel mode integrated into the game.

 

[Privata]

Maybe its just me , but my two best gaming moments was :
Learning X² and ArmA without ever looking at the manual or looking up online help.

And working out X² plots without having played X1 was very fun , when I finaly worked out the origin of the xenon before X3 came out and before I went and played X1 was wonderfull.

But not everyone likes that sort of stuff.

Some more help would be nice , but is it not part of the space sim genre to just learn by your errors?

 

[Nerwan]

Some more help would be nice , but is it not part of the space sim genre to just learn by your errors?

I'm just trying to save 777Driver some work really. Every day there seems to be another thread where he has to explain these basic facts to another newbie ;-)

 

[Gorgonaut]

Personally, I believe that a certain amount of optional player direction would be a great boon for new players.
It's easy to forget just how complex this game is- until you try to explain it all to a new player; at which point their eyes tend to glaze over, and they start talking in the tongue of the Old Ones.

The gentle direction could be in the form of suggested missions for new players (new pilots), where the Pilot's Association, as the mission giver, would guide the player through various mission elements/actions via comms.
This "tutorial" would perhaps take the form of specially marked missions that introduce the players to the various aspects and ways to do things in the galaxy.

Edit: Schpelling

 

[anikaiful]

@OP&title: yea, I guess it should.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Are the training missions any good? Don't know really, but there would be a good place to teach things like pipmanagment.

 

[Envy661]

I'll answer this with a resounding "Yes". We need a scrjpted in-universe tutorial that helps new players learn where to farm, how to build, power management, various utilities and how/when to properly utilize them, etc.

The game as it stands right now is VERY unintuitive to those new to the genre. Not to the level Star Citizen is, but still bad enough that it's nessesary to throw some more education in the direction of new pilots.

You're a new commander starting in a Sidewinder. You'd think you'd at least be competant enough to fly it, but the game barely prepares you for it. I wonder if the combat tutorials even have the updated AI.

 

[Batgut]

* How 4 PIPS to shields makes a massive difference
* How to hi-wake to avoid being mass locked
* How a Cobra 3's speed can be used to outrun NPCs and how you have to judge whether to run or tank based on the type of enemy interdicting you.
* How to handle chain interdicting NPCs, judging whether you can keep low waking or have to hi-wake
* How hull reinforcements have a disproportionate effect on smaller ships and can make a sidey, for example, much tougher than you could achieve with shields.

As a new player of a week or so, I've only just learned about pip management today - would never have guessed that the pip levels were disproportionate, and that's been a real revelation to learn.
Of your five points, I'm only aware of two of them...


Training missions were good for basic nav, flight & combat systems, but the majority of additional useful info i've learned from the forums and fan sites.

 

[anikaiful]

Are the training missions any good? Don't know really, but there would be a good place to teach things like pipmanagment.

No idea. Haven't checked them since like forever - did couple of them sometime in 2014.

 

[Cosmos]

I'll answer this with a resounding "Yes". We need a scrjpted in-universe tutorial that helps new players learn where to farm, how to build, power management, various utilities and how/when to properly utilize them, etc.

The game as it stands right now is VERY unintuitive to those new to the genre. Not to the level Star Citizen is, but still bad enough that it's nessesary to throw some more education in the direction of new pilots.

You're a new commander starting in a Sidewinder. You'd think you'd at least be competant enough to fly it, but the game barely prepares you for it. I wonder if the combat tutorials even have the updated AI.

I've always thought of ED as being quite easy to pick up but then I was a vet of the previous games. Still, its got to be more accessible than the likes of EvE. That said, as its expanded over time there is a lot more to it and where I've gotten used to the features incrementally I can see how it might intimidate some particuarly at first.

Putting work into an improved in game tutorial system would come at the cost of actual content. Maybe Frontier could make some more tutorial videos instead..? Although, there are quite a lot of player created ones on youtube already.

I am curious though, how many people have read the game manual?

 

[DaggerSnake]

I think the training tutorials and the training vids that come out each update are fine. They hit the fundamentals very well.

We were all new and everything turned out fine. To me, modern games tend to hand hold too much. I think experience and self discovery is important.

It's a balance of "nice to know" vs "NEED to know".

all of those bullet points are things that should become self-evident evident through game experience and participating in a community (like this) and I know they are because veterans know them. They are more NICE to know.

A "need to know" is the flight control checklist of buttons at the first launch or how to open and navigate the galaxy map, or request docking.

 

[Gorgonaut]

I've always thought of ED as being quite easy to pick up but then I was a vet of the previous games. Still, its got to be more accessible than the likes of EvE. That said, as its expanded over time there is a lot more to it and where I've gotten used to the features incrementally I can see how it might intimidate some particuarly at first.

Putting work into an improved in game tutorial system would come at the cost of actual content. Maybe Frontier could make some more tutorial videos instead..? Although, there are quite a lot of player created ones on youtube already.

I am curious though, how many people have read the game manual?

I figured most of it out through video game logic, tutorials and this very forum. There are still things I don't know.
I started with Elite on ye olde NES, so I'm kind of used to the overall structure- I see though that many players don't see what we take for granted- as logical, in the game.

Having tutorials outside the game proper, I believe, would be a mistake- and I believe taking good care of new players is a worthy time investment.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Manual 2.00, page 64:

SYS: Used to recharge shields and activate scanners/defensive modules. In addition, the more pips assigned, the more resistant shields are to attack

The remaining points brought up by the OP are either also explained in the manual (like mass-lock mechanics for supercruise and hyperspace; the paragraph about other ships slowing down FSD charging is suspiciously absent in the hyperjump explanation), or can be learned and discovered over a moderate time of trial and error, which is exactly what the free (or at least extremely cheap to replace) sidewinder is for. Between the manual and the short tutorial videos, there's enough information to get you off a pad and through a good deal of trouble. Analyse your actions. Especially people that aren't dissuaded by getting nixed a few times should be able to do that. Having every last consequence of all the (inter)actions spoonfed takes away from the experience.

 

[Ouberos]

More training is probably a good thing.

A couple of times I've learned basic new things I should have known and shown other long time players simple stuff.

Both things have come from interactions with others and I like the way that happens. A community has had to develop in Elite to exchange ideas and skills.

Maybe new players should be directed to player groups who can pass on their mad skillz.

I like the idea of tips being shown on the loading screen. I learned a few Skyrim tricks that way.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

Manual 2.00, page 64:

Having to get to page 64 of the manual to find that out I can see how many people have no idea about it.

I by the way have never read the manual, not my learning style, but picked things up by trial & error, and good posts on this forum. People have different ways of learning and for some handholding can be the best, to stop them getting the help they need is counter productive. Any in-game tutorials & help should however be opt-in so people can chose to have them or not.

 

[Fost]

Yes. Annoyingly, it's not going to be a benefit to any of us who've been playing since day once and know how everything works but I really think the new user experience right now is terrible.
There should at least be *flight school* training missions to get people into the swing of things (would be great if these were done in game somehow).

I actually think it might help sales even and more people playing / more revenue for FD benefits us all.

As a further note - 4 people I know only play because I went round their house and 'mentored' them in the game.
Not many other games need that level of help!

 

[Gorgonaut]

I've always thought of ED as being quite easy to pick up but then I was a vet of the previous games. Still, its got to be more accessible than the likes of EvE. That said, as its expanded over time there is a lot more to it and where I've gotten used to the features incrementally I can see how it might intimidate some particuarly at first.

Putting work into an improved in game tutorial system would come at the cost of actual content. Maybe Frontier could make some more tutorial videos instead..? Although, there are quite a lot of player created ones on youtube already.

I am curious though, how many people have read the game manual?

Yes. Annoyingly, it's not going to be a benefit to any of us who've been playing since day once and know how everything works but I really think the new user experience right now is terrible.
There should at least be *flight school* training missions to get people into the swing of things (would be great if these were done in game somehow).

I actually think it might help sales even and more people playing / more revenue for FD benefits us all.

As a further note - 4 people I know only play because I went round their house and 'mentored' them in the game.
Not many other games need that level of help!

Many seem to care only about what benefits us "old" players, and I don't think that's very constructive for the game. After all, we all want more people playing this

 

[Whiterose]

I like to train from experience, the problem is nowadays everbody is too much of a rush, so yes, they probably do, but would they do them? probably not.

 

[rbridd]

I'll answer this with a resounding "Yes". We need a scrjpted in-universe tutorial that helps new players learn where to farm, how to build, power management, various utilities and how/when to properly utilize them, etc.

The game as it stands right now is VERY unintuitive to those new to the genre.

Perhaps, from within the game, a "flight simulator" training option, which links the pilot to the training modules.
(Maybe this could be available only when docked at designated Pilots Federation training facilities...)
The training modules I think are now insufficient for a fresh new recruit, due to the increasing complexity of the game. There should be more.
When selected, I'd split the training flight sims into two main categories.
1) Learn about...
2) Practice...

The current training modules pretty much would come under practice, but there could be more combat practice related sims focussed on usage of specific weaponry perhaps.
Learn about... training sims should cover everything in the manual, and all the subsequent updates, in an interactive way, sitting in your own familiar cockpit seat.
These could cover how to use the galaxy map to find trading routes.
How to equip for, and go on a mining trip.
How to scan objects for exploration, and what stellar and planetary objects are worth relatively speaking.
Planetary landing, and basic SRV driving lessons. How to use and interpret the SRV scanner output.

THEN:
The area around new start areas, perhaps a 20 LY bubble, should be heavily policed with near invincible NPC authority vessels, to allow new start players to adjust to the big wide galaxy at large, but with a few anarchy systems to allow them to dip their toe in so to speak.
Within that new starter bubble, missions could be crafted such that new players get to do for real, what they have just learned in the sim.

The balance would be hard to achieve, so that it didn't look like too much handholding, but given that the training sims must be optional, I don't see a severe problem with complaints.

It would of course, cost development resource hours, and therefore money, so is unlikely to happen unless, Frontier see this as a real problem.
They must have stats of players who played a few hours, never advanced beyond a Sidey, and didn't come back.