Please read the post again. Point 3.
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Doubt with premium ammo
- Thread starter Exterminatus93
- Start date
Like I said - same thing.
Please explain where you're coming unstuck with the fact that engineers are only unlocked once whereas premium would be a weekly grind...Grinding to modify modules is also done only once per module, this is something anyone can achieve whether it takes a long time or a short time, you will get there in the end. Premium requires constant grind, you will never 'get there', you will constantly need it. Using premium is as toxic to the game as heroine addiction is to a person. I can see why you think engineers are also toxic, but the levels are completely different.
Grinding for power is grinding for power. Whether doing it once or multiple times is no different quality for me.
I have no doubt of the 'entry requirements' - I think we have covered this ground before... (I even agreed to the principle of Premium not affecting Human lpayers)I stated it in my previous post.
I can be more verbose and detailed though...
Do you think that pvp is something that is inviting to most players in the game? I assume not. Do you agree that part of that is the high price of entry in terms of skill and loadout considerations? Almost all engineers must be unlocked, tons of materials must be ground and then you have to git gud on top of that? If you play on the bleeding edge (I hope you recognize the need for 'bleeding edge' players), you need to do a fair bit of engineering to maintain different loadouts for wing vs 1v1, etc and adjust those loadouts in response to meta. You also need lots of money for ships and rebuys.
Now, ALL of that is no longer enough. Now you have to grind out tons of materials weekly as well just for ammo, and 90% of people are just gonna say 'screw this', and rightly so.
Now let's look at the actual technical problems... Starting with...
1) Lasers. Cannot be reloaded, so if you like lasers, tough luck, you have to run something that can be synthesised with premium.
2) 30% is WAY too big a bonus.
3) You are handing the advantage to those that can play for more than x amount of hours per week and ensuring that those with less time can never keep up. At least with engineering it doesn't matter if it takes you a year, once it's done, it's done, you can build a competitive ship, as many as you want. That's the difference, premium requires constant additional grind, and HOURS of it.
Now throw in the worst part of all, which is that in order to be ready at any moment, you have to have your premium ammo already loaded. What if your opponent is not using premium ammo and you want to give them a fair fight?
Bonus problem... Someone could be using the cheat engine to get a 30% advantage and because we don't have any indication, we simply assume they are using premium, but it's not costing them anything and will be impossible to spot.
Oh, second bonus, it also gives the advantage to gankers cos traders can't 'premium' their shield and armor and the game is further unbalanced toward the gonkers.
Hope I helped.What it really comes down to is encouraging people to play in open and maybe even join the pvp scene, which when it works, is pretty good in this game. The dogfighting model has a high skill cap which is just negated by numpties using premium.
The game blurb boldly declares "Blaze your own trail" (you can stop laughing now) which is fine.
As I said, and will continue to say, a minority campaigning for change for everyone (like that 'Well Intentioned' Open Letter 'Community') is something I'll oppose, it isn't against PvP, we all have our own favourite activities, or even Gankers, it is solely that what is irritating to some is not necessarily irritating to all.
You aren't stupid, @Aashenfox - far from it - so must be able to move your viewpoint to encompass the whole of the playerbase and consider if your 'niche' issue bothers everyone - or just a small group.
Really? Honestly?
I respectfully honour your opinion as your own...
ETA: Being honest, does it really matter if Premium is so 'toxic' or as another of your supporters classified it "Cancerous' that it drives some of your group away from the game? It matters just about as much as the 'Git Gud' proponents driving 'n00bs' away from the game, surely? So not at all.
FDev do nothing to prevent/support actions in game by players that are exceedingly unfair or particularly noble, players are, in the main, left to just go on doing whatever they wish. (myself included, of course)
(Anyone who has lost a good friend to a heroine overdose, or a parent or niece to cancer might wish to consider such casual use of similarities)
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It's a bold analogy, I do exaggerate sometimes but it is reasonably accurate. Because once you start using it you need to always use it, because if you are using it, you are definitely assuming that everyone else is. It's a vicious circle.
I remember that we agreed on potential solutions, no worries. To be honest, my biggest issue is that it enables and occludes cheating. Not to mention it can't be used on lasers which invalidates half the weapons in the game for wild pvp. I didn't say anything contrary to our last agreement on that particular facet (I don't require a unilateral solution such as removal, as we both said, better it didn't affect players, but an indicator at minimum will do. At least that will allow us to differentiate between those that ground for it and those that are just cheating.
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Premium ammo is the very pain the engineer hamsterwheelers should have to suffer so they remember how "toxic" bringing OP gear for vanilla fights is.
I know, fox, my ETA: in the quoted post reflects my view on the analogy...
We did agree, very amicably, as the solution suggested was excellent.
It isn't a dig against you
Love you too manI know, fox, my ETA: in the quoted post reflects my view on the analogy...
We did agree, very amicably, as the solution suggested was excellent.
It isn't a dig against you
o7I play in my own PG with a few friends, there PvP fun is had in stock identical ships - it is fun for all of us.
Ye, I found it was quite OK back then, too.
It is in the 'general' game now that unengineered ships are 'disadvantaged' once combat hits around 'Competent' regarding NPC's and 'Mostly Harmless' in open... Half of me agrees with your dislike of engineering, the other half that plays mainly in open has to grudgingly accept that they are now a necessity...
It's atrocious that they went with nerfing vanilla stuff by upping up the environment indiscriminately. I can live with losing PvP because of the new requirements, but having to grind for basic PvE is simply unacceptable.
Sweet, thank you. I may have to try some on my Python cargo ship, to see what impact it has.
My Python miner has Premium on its multis, for those pirates who just don't get the hint...
FIRST : Death to cheaters. Many things are odious. Taxes, root canals, and dinner at the Mother in laws... But they are LESS horrible if EVERYONE has to live with it. Cheaters are the equivalent of someone cutting in line at a movie premier. They should be hunted down, perma-banned, and their computer loaded with malware.
SECOND : I concede the spirit in which your objections are raised. I'll even fully concede the two issues related to premium lasers and shields ( although not having to reload lasers and using SCB's is a limp wristed balance of a sort ).
[ MATERIALS ]
I'll point out that the mats issues isn't really an issue. With material traders you can get the mats much easier then using an SRV. Just pick up the junk left by your fallen foes and trade it in. So, no SRV needed. There is no substance to your argument.
[ Unbalancing PvP and the 30% bonus ]
PvP has always been the wild free-for-all, upper end, ultra competitive range of the game. It's not just engineering. It's technique, training, and as you stated, the most precious thing any of us has : TIME. Adding in premium ammo is just one more thing. As in everything else, if that's what it takes to be the best... well, that's what it takes. Does it have a place in the game ? YES. It could be used by a player who doesn't have access to an engineer as a balance against engineered foes. So, it does have a place. Should it be stack-able with engineering ? MMMmmm.. OK. If you've put in the time for both. Sure. If you worked for it doing the engineers dance and then hunted for mats. As for balance in general.. well, ED doesn't have a good track record on that. If you're looking for balance in ED, good luck with that. There is nothing stopping a fully engineered ganker with a murder-wagon from stomping n00bs all day long. They can hang out near the starter systems and get their fill and Frontier will do NOTHING. Balance is non-existent. There is no substance here, either.
[ GRIND ]
I will fully admit, I am one of those people who doesn't have time to chase the up-to-the-second meta/engineering or flight time/training to engage in PvP unless I'm willing to be the punching bag. My PvP experiences have mostly been in a HazRES or CNB environment and so not as competitive. Adding in premium ammo isn't going to help draw me in. It is, as you stated, another hurdle I am not wiling to jump over. BUT, Grind is an ED REQUIREMENT. In order to even enjoy the game, I am required to add engineers. You can't pretend that it isn't a requirement : Half the missions are on planets and upper level NPC ships are engineered. So in order to survive, even as a pure PVE player, you're headed down that road. Just getting the FSD drive modified gives a HUGE advantage to a trader. So, ED = Grind. Examples : Getting Fed/Imp rank : GRIND. Elite status : Grind. Credits : Grind.. While I can sympathize that premium ammo is a PITA, well, yeah. It is. But like a trader that doesn't engineer their FSD, you CAN chose not to use it and put yourself at a disadvantage.
In summation, MATs and Balance are not issues. Grind... well... to make the claim that at some point the game crossed the line of 'too much' grind is IMO non-sensible. Where does anyone cross that line ? Horizons ? Engineers ? Fed/Imp rank ? The meta-game ? Elite status ? Time ? Anyone CAN use premium ammo. If you're willing to invest 'time in the grind'.
[ As an aside, and not to hijack the thread, but we as gamers need to come up with a monetary name for 'grind' units. Like Dollars/Pounds/Yen/Euros/Credits ]
Easy, when it has to be done weekly. All the rest are one time things. o7