Dwarf Spots

[Murishani]

So Im noticing these pink 'spots' at various locations of the galaxy. If you zoom all the way out in galmap, theyre very visible. There is one just above and coreward of Barnards Loop, there are severl partway up the Orion Spur and at various other places around the galaxy. If you can correctly zoom in on them, these spots always correspond to "discs" of T, Y and TT stars.

What is the background for these areas? Do they have an explanation? Why are these stars forming in this way? Astrophysicists in the house? I've read a bit about a phenomenon called dark clusters, but that doesnt seem to be the same thing. Any ideas?

 

[Murishani]

heres a pic of the "pink spots" Im talking about:

Spoiler

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Yeah, i've noticed them too, but couldn't find anything peculiar on gal map. I thought they were clusters of stars, but they don't seem like.

 

[Katejina]

Are they not just smaller gas clouds or illumination caused by the stars? Similar to the more coreward parts of the galaxy, just more spaced out?

 

[Murishani]

Are they not just smaller gas clouds or illumination caused by the stars? Similar to the more coreward parts of the galaxy, just more spaced out?

yeah entirely probably, the thing I dont understand is why THERE, theyre a very specific "spot". you see wide bands of pink as you get towards the core, like along the Sagittarius arm, but in this field of bluish space theres this one specific pink spot. It seems to me to be a disc of T,TT, and Y stars, but theyre very mirage like, sometimes it seems like its there, others not. if you zoom out all the way theyre clearly visible, zoomed in theyre not, with certain filter setups they seem more obvious. If it were just "lots of T-tauri in one spot making a pink glow" Id be fine with that, but that doesnt seem to be the case, the distribution of stars in those spot areas isnt wildly different than elsewhere near it. The spots are very thin (like a few hundred ly at most) but wide. They center right in the middle of the galactic disc in that black cloudy stuff.

I may be obsessing but it seems as if these are something specific.

 

[Ziljan]

That's a great observation and a great question! The answer is a little involved so bear with me. Spiral arms aren't physical structures but actually they are density waves that move through the plane of the galaxy. Much like ocean waves, the spiral structure does not actually travel at the same rate as the objects within them. If you look at the galaxy map, you will notice that there both red and blue regions. The blue regions are places where recent star formation has occurred, thus the blue giants and other short lives stars haven't burned out yet. The more red regions are places where the stars are older or there wasn't enough material to form blue giants. If the "pink" clusters are indeed brown dwarfs and T Tauri stars, that would indicated a few possibilities:

1) collision between a halo object, such a globular cluster and the interstellar medium disturbing the ISM and causing new star formation and leaving behind old stars

2) an open cluster of dwarfs that formed from the same low density nebula which has now dispersed, but the cluster are still loosely gravitationally bound

3) a visual artifact of the galactic map with no real counterpart of stars that you can actually travel to.



The only way to test these hypotheses would be to travel there and check the age of the dwarfs. If they're older than 10 billion years, they could be ejected globular cluster stars, and indicate a recent collision. If they are all relatively young, (eg <5 billion years) then they are likely from an older open cluster where the short lived blue stars have all burned out, assuming there was enough matter in the region to form any blue stars at all. However, if the average density of the stars in the region is no greater than the density in the stars outside the pink galactic blob, then it is likely to be an artistic artifact and not an actual structure.

EDIT: if you can provide me with coordinates for one the of the blobs, I would be happy to investigate it since I am already exploring in the general vicinity of the pink clouds.

 

[Murishani]

1) collision between a halo object, such a globular cluster and the interstellar medium disturbing the ISM and causing new star formation and leaving behind old stars

when you say a halo object are we talking about a MACHO? If so, I didnt think globular clusters were considered MACHO candidates I thought that was just BHs, NS or like rogue bodies?

2) an open cluster of dwarfs that formed from the same low density nebula which has now dispersed, but the cluster are still loosely gravitationally bound

I thought this at first, and thought I saw a specific disc of dwarves suggesting this theory, but now, looking back at it again it doesnt seem much different than nearby space.

3) a visual artifact of the galactic map with no real counterpart of stars that you can actually travel to.

Im hoping it's not this, that would be rather depressing.

The only way to test these hypotheses would be to travel there and check the age of the dwarfs. If they're older than 10 billion years, they could be ejected globular cluster stars, and indicate a recent collision. If they are all relatively young, (eg <5 billion years) then they are likely from an older open cluster where the short lived blue stars have all burned out, assuming there was enough matter in the region to form any blue stars at all. However, if the average density of the stars in the region is no greater than the density in the stars outside the pink galactic blob, then it is likely to be an artistic artifact and not an actual structure.

EDIT: if you can provide me with coordinates for one the of the blobs, I would be happy to investigate it since I am already exploring in the general vicinity of the pink clouds.

Im actually on my way to one of the spots on the tip of the orion spur now to investigate, may I add you in game to see where you are at the moment?

EDIT: sending co-ordinates is harder than it sounds since they appear and dissapear from the map as you're trying to find them, if I know the area you're in I can help spot the closest one more easily.

 

[Murishani]

Ok, the best I can do is to point you at the general area:

Throofua QX-C a12-0 is one of the "spots" at the spur, that's where Im headed and should arrive at tonight.

FLYOO DRYIAE YR-L A117-1
FLYOOE DRYOU PF-H A92-1
these are progressively further into the spur towards sol

FLYAE DRYOAE GP-D A94-3
finally this one has several "spots" in its general vicinity

Type one of those in, and then zoom out, you will see the navigational arrow pointing at one of the pink spots. Hope that gets you a little closer to them.

 

[Ziljan]

when you say a halo object are we talking about a MACHO? If so, I didnt think globular clusters were considered MACHO candidates I thought that was just BHs, NS or like rogue bodies?

The galactic halo is comprised of all kind of objects, but to make such a sizable impact on the galactic plane, it would have to be something as big as a Globular Cluster. But given how little we know about the composition of dark matter, a large disturbance in the interstellar medium could also be caused by something we can't even see in an high orbit outside the galactic plane. I think it would be unlikely to be a single BH because it would have to be pretty massive to alter the orbits and velocities on a scale to be seen from above the galactic plane.

I thought this at first, and thought I saw a specific disc of dwarves suggesting this theory, but now, looking back at it again it doesnt seem much different than nearby space.

Open Clusters can be very loose, and look not very different from the surrounding area. The primary way to identify them is that they are all the same age and have the same metallicity.

Im hoping it's not this, that would be rather depressing.

If you zoom in on the other red and blue areas of the galaxy, they are quite consistently composed of primarily red or blue stars. So I think this is unlikely to be an artifact.

Im actually on my way to one of the spots on the tip of the orion spur now to investigate, may I add you in game to see where you are at the moment?

EDIT: sending co-ordinates is harder than it sounds since they appear and dissapear from the map as you're trying to find them, if I know the area you're in I can help spot the closest one more easily.

Sure please add me in game, and I will be glad to assist.

 

[Murishani]

The galactic halo is comprised of all kind of objects, but to make such a sizable impact on the galactic plane, it would have to be something as big as a Globular Cluster. But given how little we know about the composition of dark matter, a large disturbance in the interstellar medium could also be caused by something we can't even see in an high orbit outside the galactic plane. I think it would be unlikely to be a single BH because it would have to be pretty massive to alter the orbits and velocities on a scale to be seen from above the galactic plane.

OK I follow that makes sense.

Open Clusters can be very loose, and look not very different from the surrounding area. The primary way to identify them is that they are all the same age and have the same metallicity.

Didn't know this, that makes much more sense than just "those stars over there".

If you zoom in on the other red and blue areas of the galaxy, they are quite consistently composed of primarily red or blue stars. So I think this is unlikely to be an artifact.
Sure please add me in game, and I will be glad to assist.

Well let's hope! I should be there this evening, invite sent.

 

[Murishani]

Well, greetings from the pink spot!
I am currently at the fainter of the three pink spots at the tip of the orion spur.

Spoiler

(thats CMDR Akira Masakari off in the distance exploring big hot stars while I am in scooping hell)

As can be seen in the screenshot (edited for contrast) the pink spots do, in fact correspond to particularly tight clusters of T and Y stars. The area is not in fact disc shaped, its an amorphous shape that spreads roughly between all the spots, concentrating in those particular areas. The faint dot I am currently in is approximately 300x320 ly across. The surprising and interesting thing, is that it is only about 50ly deep from top to bottom. It's a well defined area when you turn off everything but the T and Y stars as I have done for the photo. Even with other stars turned on, it is a particularly dense patch of stars compared to the surrounding stellar bodies, perhaps this is what is giving the area the distinct glow since the "pink" stars are so much more dense in this immediate area. Its edges are fairly well defined when you filter out just the T and Y stars making it almost slab like in its appearance in the galactic map, very wide and long compared to its thickness, and the tops and bottoms of this "slab" are nearly flat for a large stellar body.

Initial surveying shows a fairly distinct difference in star age within the spot, Ive seen age differences up to almost 4 billion years in the spot (EDIT: so far, I cant rule out even greater time spans for star age until I have more data). I am not sure how this factors into Ziljans hypothesis on the spot.
The stars within the spot are approximately 1/3Y and 2/3T class stars, contrary to my earlier post there are no TT stars present in the group (or in the immediate vicinity as best as I can tell).

I will continue a survey of this dimmer spot before moving to one of the brighter spots to test my theory about the density of the stars contributing to its visibility on the galmap.

It should be noted to anyone reading that if the OTHER pink spot areas further up the Orion Spur are anything like this pink spot area, a certain degree of caution is advised as naturally the spots are unscoopable, and at least out here in the "shallow" end of the arm, they are accompanied nearby by impassible gaps between stars making it an irritating if not outright dangerous area to navigate, enter, and exit.

 

[Murishani]

Update: the age disparity on the faint spot is now in excess of 12.1 billion years between the oldest and youngest, I think its safe to say they are not the same age, so we can rule out an open cluster. On a side note, I found a dwarf that pre-dates the big bang. So... make of that what you will.

Canopy is on first crack now, guess Im a real explorer...

Heading to one of the brighter spots.

 

[Ziljan]

This measured massive age disparity data could fit the Globular Cluster / ISM collision hypothesis #1 (above). Globular Clusters are the oldest structures in the universe (unless you count the b-mode polarization of the cmb). The collision would leave a mix of very old stars and very young stars. One way to further test this theory is find the average age of the brown dwarfs outside of the pink spot, and use this as a control group. If there isn't a significant age difference between the dwarfs in the pink spots and dwarfs in other parts of the galactic plane, then something else is going on, perhaps a dark matter structure within the galaxy starting at the outer arms. In any case, I think it's safe to say that the pink spots are not an artifact and represent some kind of observable structure.

Btw, I also found a similar age distribution in a pink spot closer to the human bubble near barnards loop. And, I also found a brown dwarf older than our current estimate for the age of the universe, at around 17.4Gy. Very odd, but then again we believed for a long time that Globular Clusters were older than the estimated age of the universe ~11-18 Gy old. It could be that this turned out to be true after all, and the age of the universe is a bit older than our current models would suggest. Perhaps a dark matter correction or an experimental justification for a cosmological constant was found in the future, and space time isn't as flat as it appears to us today. New FTL drives would certainly mean new physics, and new physics always means a revision of the upper age boundary of very ancient things.

 

[Murishani]

This measured massive age disparity data could fit the Globular Cluster / ISM collision hypothesis #1 (above). Globular Clusters are the oldest structures in the universe (unless you count the b-mode polarization of the cmb). The collision would leave a mix of very old stars and very young stars. One way to further test this theory is find the average age of the brown dwarfs outside of the pink spot, and use this as a control group. If there isn't a significant age difference between the dwarfs in the pink spots and dwarfs in other parts of the galactic plane, then something else is going on, perhaps a dark matter structure within the galaxy starting at the outer arms. In any case, I think it's safe to say that the pink spots are not an artifact and represent some kind of observable structure.

Btw, I also found a similar age distribution in a pink spot closer to the human bubble near barnards loop. And, I also found a brown dwarf older than our current estimate for the age of the universe, at around 17.4Gy. Very odd, but then again we believed for a long time that Globular Clusters were older than the estimated age of the universe ~11-18 Gy old. It could be that this turned out to be true after all, and the age of the universe is a bit older than our current models would suggest. Perhaps a dark matter correction or an experimental justification for a cosmological constant was found in the future, and space time isn't as flat as it appears to us today. New FTL drives would certainly mean new physics, and new physics always means a revision of the upper age boundary of very ancient things.

Great analysis and thanks for taking the time to participate in my little goose chase. I've got some lines out to other CMDRS who may be able to help us collect data on dwarves outside the pink spots for some control data.
If anyone reading the thread happens to be in a pink spot, or happens to have data on brown dwarves (T and Y), go ahead and post your findings.

Were doing science out here!

 

[Glyphon]

I'm currently based a kiley or 2 from Sol gathering data (in general for me, not specifically for this thread) and I've only done a very small amount of systems so as far as brown dwarves go I only have these 2.



But I shall post more as I get them. I'm going to stick around Pro Eurl for the moment and will move coreward after a sufficient amount of data has been gathered to try and get various spots/sectors around the galaxy.
If you wish me to go somewhere just name the sector and I shall endeavor to explore

Edit: whoops, didn't put the categories in there, the 6th column is age of body in millions of years.

 

[Murishani]

But I shall post more as I get them. I'm going to stick around Pro Eurl for the moment and will move coreward after a sufficient amount of data has been gathered to try and get various spots/sectors around the galaxy.
If you wish me to go somewhere just name the sector and I shall endeavor to explore

If you can collect a larger batch of T and Y stars over time and report them in that would be great, Id never ask anyone to go out of their way to investigate dwarves because there's zero profit in doing so with their cold dead systems. Specifically what were looking for is whether their age discrepancy is the same as within the pink spots. If the control data (the stars youll be looking at, spread out over space) have the same age distribution as inside the spots or not. The most important stat we need is the stars age. Whatever you can collect would be great but don't put yourself out for it.

EDIT: Thanks for replying and contributing!

 

[EddyRockSteady]

......Id never ask anyone to go out of their way to investigate dwarves because there's zero profit in doing so with their cold dead systems.....

*My ELW orbiting a Y-class says different

(*Yet to confirm first discovered status as busy selling data)

 

[Jackie Silver]

*My ELW orbiting a Y-class says different

(*Yet to confirm first discovered status as busy selling data)

Is the Y-class the primary, and no other stars around? The planet must be practically touching it if so!

 

[Glyphon]

and more importantly you think there's profit in doing what I'm doing ATM? It takes time to enter tall that data, time that isn't spent discovering I'm not in this for the money (well, not entirely)

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Is the Y-class the primary, and no other stars around? The planet must be practically touching it if so!

Humble apologies - I might be mistaken re class. All I remember for certain is that it's a brown dwarf. On phone atm so away from main PC and cannot double-check.

In any event, here's pic:

Will clarify later.