Dwarf Spots

[Murishani]

and more importantly you think there's profit in doing what I'm doing ATM? It takes time to enter tall that data, time that isn't spent discovering I'm not in this for the money (well, not entirely)

Well as I said, I wouldnt ASK, if you're crazy like the rest of us dwarf hunters at the moment, glad to have you, you're in good company.

*My ELW orbiting a Y-class says different

ok MOSTLY dead systems.

Is the Y-class the primary, and no other stars around? The planet must be practically touching it if so!

looks like the primary and it does look super close.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

looks like the primary and it does look super close.

Around 400Ls IIRC.

 

[Murishani]

Around 400Ls IIRC.

Don't suppose you've got the temperature and age on that dwarf handy do you?

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Well, greetings from the pink spot!
I am currently at the fainter of the three pink spots at the tip of the orion spur.

Spoiler

http://i58.tinypic.com/53nybs.jpg

(thats CMDR Akira Masakari off in the distance exploring big hot stars while I am in scooping hell)

As can be seen in the screenshot (edited for contrast) the pink spots do, in fact correspond to particularly tight clusters of T and Y stars. The area is not in fact disc shaped, its an amorphous shape that spreads roughly between all the spots, concentrating in those particular areas. The faint dot I am currently in is approximately 300x320 ly across. The surprising and interesting thing, is that it is only about 50ly deep from top to bottom. It's a well defined area when you turn off everything but the T and Y stars as I have done for the photo. Even with other stars turned on, it is a particularly dense patch of stars compared to the surrounding stellar bodies, perhaps this is what is giving the area the distinct glow since the "pink" stars are so much more dense in this immediate area. Its edges are fairly well defined when you filter out just the T and Y stars making it almost slab like in its appearance in the galactic map, very wide and long compared to its thickness, and the tops and bottoms of this "slab" are nearly flat for a large stellar body.

Initial surveying shows a fairly distinct difference in star age within the spot, Ive seen age differences up to almost 4 billion years in the spot (EDIT: so far, I cant rule out even greater time spans for star age until I have more data). I am not sure how this factors into Ziljans hypothesis on the spot.
The stars within the spot are approximately 1/3Y and 2/3T class stars, contrary to my earlier post there are no TT stars present in the group (or in the immediate vicinity as best as I can tell).

I will continue a survey of this dimmer spot before moving to one of the brighter spots to test my theory about the density of the stars contributing to its visibility on the galmap.

It should be noted to anyone reading that if the OTHER pink spot areas further up the Orion Spur are anything like this pink spot area, a certain degree of caution is advised as naturally the spots are unscoopable, and at least out here in the "shallow" end of the arm, they are accompanied nearby by impassible gaps between stars making it an irritating if not outright dangerous area to navigate, enter, and exit.

Can confirm all of this, i zoomed in CMDR Murishani position and there were a lot of Y and T stars corresponding to the pink dot visible on the map if zoomed out. Didn't look good to travel there. I'm navigating up the perseus arm and i can see some of these dots some 10kly ahead of me, I'll try to reach them. Definitly if they are in a low density area these should be navigated with care.

 

[Murishani]

Definitly if they are in a low density area these should be navigated with care.

Yeah, these spots in higher density star areas are no problem, you can just jump out real quick and refuel, but if your spot is on the edge of a 65 light year gap, you could strand yourself and die of thirst pretty easily, especially in a lower jump range vessel. I wouldnt even want to play with these things in anything smaller than a T6 for sure. You COULD explore them in something smaller but the danger level would jump dramatically.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Don't suppose you've got the temperature and age on that dwarf handy do you?

Will get it to you later tonite. On phone atm, away from main PC.

 

[Ziljan]

The age is the most important detail we are looking for. That way we know if these are stars from an ancient globular cluster that have passed through or are currently passing through the Milky Way. The younger TT stars would be by products and thus further evidence of the "collision."

Just to verify, the brown dwarfs I tested just outside the pink region I sampled region are all much younger so far. The median age you would expect in a normal distribution of galactic brown dwarfs would be around 6-7Gy (half the age of the Galaxy) with a very wide age distribution. By contrast, if the average dwarf age inside the pink clusters is older than 10Gy, then it is very likely that they are from an ancient Globular Cluster, and did not originate from within the Galaxy.

If this this turns out to be true, then David Brabens model of the Galaxy is astonishingly deep. And my only question is, where are the actual globular clusters in the visible galactic halo? For the most part, they are smal and dim. But there should still be visible little cotton ball objects buzzing above and below the plane the Galaxy like a swarm of very old bees.

 

[Jackie Silver]

Here are some data I collected today from the IC 1805 (Heart nebula stars) and IC 1848 (Soul nebula stars) regions. Both are star clusters of sorts, although IC 1805 has many more bright young stars.

Link to Brown Dwarf Survey

The ages range from a few hundred million years up to nearly 18 billion. There doesn't appear to be any great distinction between the two clusters.

I'm heading homewards and will gather some more samples from the next spiral arm in and the gaps between the arms.

 

[Ziljan]

Here are some data I collected today from the IC 1805 (Heart nebula stars) and IC 1848 (Soul nebula stars) regions. Both are star clusters of sorts, although IC 1805 has many more bright young stars.

Link to Brown Dwarf Survey

The ages range from a few hundred million years up to nearly 18 billion. There doesn't appear to be any great distinction between the two clusters.

I'm heading homewards and will gather some more samples from the next spiral arm in and the gaps between the arms.

These are all outside of the pink regions I assume, since you are in the outer blue arms of the galaxy? I did a quick calc and your average age is around 5.4 billion years. Which means that these stars all formed a bit later than the ones in the core regions on average, which is what you would expect give the lower density in the outer arms. So far, this still confirms the Globular Cluster hypothesis for the stretch of old brown dwarfs we are seeing in the pink spots. Otherwise, you would expect to see the same random age distribution for dwarfs that you are seeing outside the pink spot regions.

This is very exciting! Now I really want to get a sample of the inner regions to see if the brown dwarfs there are all slightly older than the ones you see around Sol on average. Very nice work Jackie!

 

[Jackie Silver]

Yes, those are all from two ordinary star clusters - I'm going to sample different (ordinary, not pink region) populations on my way back just to see if there's any obvious variations.

 

[Murishani]

The age is the most important detail we are looking for. That way we know if these are stars from an ancient globular cluster that have passed through or are currently passing through the Milky Way. The younger TT stars would be by products and thus further evidence of the "collision."

Just to verify, the brown dwarfs I tested just outside the pink region I sampled region are all much younger so far. The median age you would expect in a normal distribution of galactic brown dwarfs would be around 6-7Gy (half the age of the Galaxy) with a very wide age distribution. By contrast, if the average dwarf age inside the pink clusters is older than 10Gy, then it is very likely that they are from an ancient Globular Cluster, and did not originate from within the Galaxy.

If this this turns out to be true, then David Brabens model of the Galaxy is astonishingly deep. And my only question is, where are the actual globular clusters in the visible galactic halo? For the most part, they are smal and dim. But there should still be visible little cotton ball objects buzzing above and below the plane the Galaxy like a swarm of very old bees.

I'm not sure I follow the theory about the ancient globular cluster, and what we should be seeing but aren't? Can you put it in slow, low syllable count words for me? lol. If a globular cluster in the distant past ________ then we would see these brown dwarves here and _______ to confirm it.

I only asked for the temperature from Eddy because of Jackies research on the habcalc and what it would take to make an ELP around a dwarf.

Here are some data I collected today from the IC 1805 (Heart nebula stars) and IC 1848 (Soul nebula stars) regions. Both are star clusters of sorts, although IC 1805 has many more bright young stars.

Link to Brown Dwarf Survey

The ages range from a few hundred million years up to nearly 18 billion. There doesn't appear to be any great distinction between the two clusters.

I'm heading homewards and will gather some more samples from the next spiral arm in and the gaps between the arms.

EDIT: Ninja'd, great work Jackie and thanks for participating!

 

[Ziljan]

It pretty simple really.

Globular Clusters are beehive shaped objects that contain hundreds of thousands of stars VERY OLD stars. Since the star clusters are very old, they will consist mostly of low mass red stars that have long lifespans (L though Y class dwarfs). They exist in a cloud of objects called the galactic halo, and occasionally their orbits cause them to pass though the plane of the galaxy. Since both objects are mostly empty space, they will pass though each other with very few actual collisions, however the dark gases in the plane of the milky way get disturbed in the process which causes some new star formation, thus the younger TT stars appear. Some of the older stars that are more loosely bound to the the Globular Cluster will get ejected during the collision and remain in the plane of the Milky Way, and these are the VERY old stars that we are looking for (older than 10 billion years). Of course, there will be the normal distribution of stars within these regions as well, so some of the dwarfs in the area will be younger and Galactic in origin and therefore from the same random age distribution as the normal stars you might see anywhere in the galaxy. However...

...if my first hypothesis is correct, and the pink spots are the result of a collision with a Globular Cluster, then the average age of the dwarf stars in those pink regions (class L through Y) should be significantly older than the galactic average.

 

[Murishani]

...if my first hypothesis is correct, and the pink spots are the result of a collision with a Globular Cluster, then the average age of the dwarf stars in those pink regions (class L through Y) should be significantly older than the galactic average.

Ok NOW I follow. I understood why we were collecting age data. I was unsure about the specifics of globular clusters and what they are and how they may have interacted to cause this.

SO if this is what happened, and it was a collision with a globular cluster, and you said TT stars should have gotten "stirred up" from the disturbance of the ISM, WHERE should we be looking for those? Could those be used as another verification of the theory? Or is the time that has passed too significant to use them as indicators? Have those TT stars that got stirred up turned into something else? Can we detect anything to indicate their presence now?

 

[Ziljan]

Ok NOW I follow. I understood why we were collecting age data. I was unsure about the specifics of globular clusters and what they are and how they may have interacted to cause this.

SO if this is what happened, and it was a collision with a globular cluster, and you said TT stars should have gotten "stirred up" from the disturbance of the ISM, WHERE should we be looking for those? Could those be used as another verification of the theory? Or is the time that has passed too significant to use them as indicators? Have those TT stars that got stirred up turned into something else? Can we detect anything to indicate their presence now?

TT stars just point to a recent bout of star formation. They should be more prevalent in blue regions where new star formation is happening on a much larger scale, but this is a RED region of generally older stars, so finding young TT stars in significant quantities is quite abnormal. The presence of TT stars almost certainly points to some kind of localized disturbance such as a collision. If the TT stars where all of the same age, then we could use this data to figure out when the collision happened. If they are not the same age, then either the collision happened very slowly, OR we are possibly dealing with some other dark matter gravitational disturbance, and the mix of young and old stars in the region would point to another mystery.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

I only asked for the temperature from Eddy because of Jackies research on the habcalc and what it would take to make an ELP around a dwarf.

Here we go:

Spoiler

 

[Murishani]

TT stars just point to a recent bout of star formation. They should be more prevalent in blue regions where new star formation is happening on a much larger scale, but this is a RED region of generally older stars, so finding young TT stars in significant quantities is quite abnormal. The presence of TT stars almost certainly points to some kind of localized disturbance such as a collision. If the TT stars where all of the same age, then we could use this data to figure out when the collision happened. If they are not the same age, then either the collision happened very slowly, OR we are possibly dealing with some other dark matter gravitational disturbance, and the mix of young and old stars in the region would point to another mystery.

Well so far we have seen no TT stars in the areas, or at least, I didnt see any, Ill make sure to double check. So if there are no TT stars, what does that mean for our mystery spots?

Here we go:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/4Lyzk3I.png

Hey thanks Eddy, you're a boss. Methinks that M star may have something to do with why that ELP is warm enough

 

[Ziljan]

Well so far we have seen no TT stars in the areas, or at least, I didnt see any, Ill make sure to double check. So if there are no TT stars, what does that mean for our mystery spots?

That depends, were you inside the dusty disk of the plane, or above or below it?

 

[Murishani]

That depends, were you inside the dusty disk of the plane, or above or below it?

inside, but I also started only specifically looking for T and Y stars when I entered. I did look at distribution of other stars (including TT) briefly before taking my survey and I didn't notice any at that time, but Im prone to error, there could be some around. I filtered out everything but the dwarves while I was in the spot.

 

[Glyphon]

Stars don't show up in the galaxy map if they're not in the first tier (if you haven't pinged them at least). TTS's and brown dwarves show up more often than other stars in 2nd and even 3rd tiers.

 

[Murishani]

Stars don't show up in the galaxy map if they're not in the first tier (if you haven't pinged them at least). TTS's and brown dwarves show up more often than other stars in 2nd and even 3rd tiers.

What tiers are these? Im not understanding this statement.