ED - A Script Kiddie's Wet Dream

Hellakitty

Hellakitty
raeat said:
I am still here, just reading the thread. The usual white-knighting and off-topic nonsense is rampant of course, as usual.

For the record, I do not recall any interaction with anyone named AdHock, in game or on these forums. He's blowing irrelevant derailing body odour. :D
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So are you until you elaborate somewhat on your OP.
 

Pew

P
I too have seen them, both influencing PP and BGS. They would run passenger missions, and Preps of a 5c. They can take off, jump to another system, dock. If ye scan em, they log, if ye hail em, they log, if ye get in the way, they run over ye as if they didn't see ye, (which of course they don't) They originally flew in open. Fdev seemed to ban those accounts when reported. They came back, reported again, as well as the new set, and seemed to get banned again. They are back. It may not be rampant yet, but it is possible, and the OP knows it, and well, it's cheating and is annoying when ye have to deal with it. The evidence ye seek has CMDR names, and so can't be posted without namin and shamin. They no longer play in open, so they can no longer be identified, by us, so no longer reported, so no longer banned unless FDev has found a way to spot them, but after months of dealin with them, it is obvious they are there, they have some specific objectives. It isn't fer credits, it's to harrass those they they have an issue with.

Yeah that was ramblin, but all true. I think OP was just tired of the effort, and since we can't track em by settin outside a station anymore, and followin em, we now have to rely on FDev to catch em, which they haven't done yet with this last batch.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Pew said:
I too have seen them, both influencing PP and BGS. They would run passenger missions, and Preps of a 5c. They can take off, jump to another system, dock. If ye scan em, they log, if ye hail em, they log, if ye get in the way, they run over ye as if they didn't see ye, (which of course they don't) They originally flew in open. Fdev seemed to ban those accounts when reported. They came back, reported again, as well as the new set, and seemed to get banned again. They are back. It may not be rampant yet, but it is possible, and the OP knows it, and well, it's cheating and is annoying when ye have to deal with it. The evidence ye seek has CMDR names, and so can't be posted without namin and shamin. They no longer play in open, so they can no longer be identified, by us, so no longer reported, so no longer banned unless FDev has found a way to spot them, but after months of dealin with them, it is obvious they are there, they have some specific objectives. It isn't fer credits, it's to harrass those they they have an issue with.

Yeah that was ramblin, but all true. I think OP was just tired of the effort, and since we can't track em by settin outside a station anymore, and followin em, we now have to rely on FDev to catch em, which they haven't done yet with this last batch.
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If you have their Cmdr names just report them using the report player function, FDev can look into it.

Hellakitty said:
All this talk of 'evidence' and no actual evidence to be seen.

It's like the comments section of a flat-earther's YouTube video in here.....
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We are not the ones that need to see any evidence, FDev are. This entire thread is pointless imo.
 

sollisb

Banned
S
bitstorm said:
Well...

"When will we see a proper API implementation, and not this writing to log files nonsense?"

"Best way to do this?! Are you kidding me? Are we back in 1984? This is the worst way to do this! All the information the log files provide should be provided through shared memory."

"Seriously! You know absolutely nothing about what is being discussed. And you seem to know even less about what is being asked for. How on God's green earth is reading and writing to a text file, whether it be json or whatever, better than doing a memory read/write?

Please, you're just showing plain ignorance now."


Angrily/aggressively/rudely, whatever you want to call it.

My point is just what I said in that thread. That it'd just be used for bots, so it's unlikely.

Oddly like the bot you just mentioned you were working on, and presumably wanted this data for!
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Yep, I was involved in the creation of multiple programs for FS using MS provided API and IPV DLL, Built an entire server based Cockpit, with multiple Displays all linked to the one sim. I'm ignorant alright.

I don't ever remember posting anything about building a bot. I could certainly do it, and without the log files too. But I haven't. You know why? Because I get a kick out of creating things other players can use to enhance their gameplay as much as I want to enhance mine. Not play their game for them. And if Fdev can get behind the sim builders there's a whole new area of exploration.

I started this morning, and had a webserver coded and running by lunchtime, feeding information from the logs to a separate display. Tomorrow, I'll add the GPS positioning advice to that display. That the player can heed or ignore. How that can be considered a 'bot' is beyond me, but hey, you're the expert.

I'm just plain ignorant.

Toodles :D
 

sollisb

Banned
S
Pew said:
I too have seen them, both influencing PP and BGS. They would run passenger missions, and Preps of a 5c. They can take off, jump to another system, dock. If ye scan em, they log, if ye hail em, they log, if ye get in the way, they run over ye as if they didn't see ye, (which of course they don't) They originally flew in open. Fdev seemed to ban those accounts when reported. They came back, reported again, as well as the new set, and seemed to get banned again. They are back. It may not be rampant yet, but it is possible, and the OP knows it, and well, it's cheating and is annoying when ye have to deal with it. The evidence ye seek has CMDR names, and so can't be posted without namin and shamin. They no longer play in open, so they can no longer be identified, by us, so no longer reported, so no longer banned unless FDev has found a way to spot them, but after months of dealin with them, it is obvious they are there, they have some specific objectives. It isn't fer credits, it's to harrass those they they have an issue with.

Yeah that was ramblin, but all true. I think OP was just tired of the effort, and since we can't track em by settin outside a station anymore, and followin em, we now have to rely on FDev to catch em, which they haven't done yet with this last batch.
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Hang on here a dang second. All activity is sent to the FDev servers using SSL encryption in both directions. FDev have specific servers to queue the data for processing etc etc. Any activity that could be automated, would be plain as day to see in a scan of the logs. Additionally, if, IF, the BGS was being co-erced in any way by automation, FDev would see it like a beacon.

Unless someone can show me 'real evidence' of bots playing, I'm thinking it's all here-say or heresy. Take your pick :D
 

raeat

Banned
raeat
For the daft, let it be reiterated that posting the evidence here (to appease mere trolls) would result in disciplinary action by the forums. It is not my goal to end the thread. I presented a critical issue in the game - a game destroyer actually, by making the players irrelevant to the BGS and/or Power Play.

What I received for my effort, was the standard noises and derision. No problem. I am used to being trolled by the usual suspects.

However, I have also received some support on the issue here. from such an august personage as Obsidian Ant. Thank you for that, sir. And a thank you to Pew and Apex as well. This is a real issue, and unless you are uninterested in the background simulation or uninterested in power play (or the future of the game), you would be ill-advised to allow mere trolls to obscure the issue behind nonsense rhetorical fluff. This is end-game relevant. Do you really want to finish your money-making, buy your ships and finish your engineering only to run into how irrelevant you are in the end-game because of bots. If player relevancy is to remain in the end-game, then long-running scripts to automate important tasks to these end-game aspects must be recognized, and seriously approached, and dealt with. The players creating these bots are wrecking the game for everyone - and that includes all of you.
 

CMDR JTrinity

C
For those asking for evidence. Google "Elite dangerous scripted bots, December 2017". 20 minute video on twitch. Good watch.

I have been the one investigating them for months. Reporting them, in depth back and forth with FDev. They issued bans against the first 6 accounts we found. For a full month we had no 5c with PP. Exactly 30 days after that ban, they returned and so did 5c. They then started attacking us with our BGS AND Power Play and there were more of them. Weeks and months went buy, I collected more evidence, a new report to FDev. Lots of back and forth communication with Fdev, after a month of that, boom. Gone again, all of them. They returned 30 days later. Rinse and repeat. Finally, 10 out of 15 of the accounts were terminated.

But now... there is a whole new group of them flying T6's I refer to as "Baby bots". All identical load outs, all pushing against our BGS and running 5c. They're also pushing against another player faction outside of the bubble too.

They exist. They are a problem. It's no joke.

CMDR JTrinity
 

sollisb

Banned
S
raeat said:
For the daft, let it be reiterated that posting the evidence here (to appease mere trolls) would result in disciplinary action by the forums. It is not my goal to end the thread. I presented a critical issue in the game - a game destroyer actually, by making the players irrelevant to the BGS and/or Power Play.

What I received for my effort, was the standard noises and derision. No problem. I am used to being trolled by the usual suspects.

However, I have also received some support on the issue here. from such an august personage as Obsidian Ant. Thank you for that, sir. And a thank you to Pew and Apex as well. This is a real issue, and unless you are uninterested in the background simulation or uninterested in power play (or the future of the game), you would be ill-advised to allow mere trolls to obscure the issue behind nonsense rhetorical fluff. This is end-game relevant. Do you really want to finish your money-making, buy your ships and finish your engineering only to run into how irrelevant you are in the end-game because of bots. If player relevancy is to remain in the end-game, then long-running scripts to automate important tasks to these end-game aspects must be recognized, and seriously approached, and dealt with. The players creating these bots are wrecking the game for everyone - and that includes all of you.
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Well in this I am really ignorant. What 'end game'? And what 'end game tasks'... And yes, I'm being serious.
 

raeat

Banned
raeat
sollisb said:
Well in this I am really ignorant. What 'end game'? And what 'end game tasks'... And yes, I'm being serious.
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There are two major, commonly played, end-game features in Elite Dangerous.
(1) BGS - the Background Game Simulation, in which players try to manipulate system factions' influence to put the factions they favour in possession of system assets.
(2) Power Play - in which players pledge their allegiances to this or that Power (the personalities including Emperor Arissa Lavigny Duval (Imp), President Zachary Hudson (Fed), Edmund Mahon (Alliance) and others).
These are inter-related in subtle and make for some truly devious, chess match scheming and strategy.

Of course, we also have the main storylines provided by FDev - Thargoids, Guardians and the like, but that's a different thing altogether.
 

Adam Jay

Adam Jay
I really don't understand where all those doubts about something as common as combination of scripting and screen recognition being possible coming, especially when bots are infesting nearly every online game that came out in last two decades. If you are one of those people who believe that only things in range of their sensory organs exist, try google, it is wonderful tool. For starters go for "Elite Dangerous auto pilot", you will find videos of several functioning, programmable and use ready mini-apps being demonstrated. The rest is key scripting little child could learn. I will go no further from there as I don't want to support such approach to gaming, but this should suffice to to show you that yes, automated flying is no more impossible in ED than in any other game. Or real life.
 

Hellakitty

Hellakitty
raeat said:
There are two major, commonly played, end-game features in Elite Dangerous.
(1) BGS - the Background Game Simulation, in which players try to manipulate system factions' influence to put the factions they favour in possession of system assets.
(2) Power Play - in which players pledge their allegiances to this or that Power (the personalities including Emperor Arissa Lavigny Duval (Imp), President Zachary Hudson (Fed), Edmund Mahon (Alliance) and others).
These are inter-related in subtle and make for some truly devious, chess match scheming and strategy.

Of course, we also have the main storylines provided by FDev - Thargoids, Guardians and the like, but that's a different thing altogether.
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Hardly 'end-game' stuff though is it. You can pledge to one of the superpower people pretty much straight away and go do your thing from very early in the game. Same for the BGS.

I stand by my point of just killing all that shallow, tedious nonsense off and replacing it with some meaningful mechanics and feedback loops.
 

Ralph Vargr

Ralph Vargr
So, Power Play, and the BGS *themselves* are bots?!?

No wonder Marmosets took over my home system.

Oh, well. The Chicken Coop has a nice GG belt.
 

[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
Adam Jay said:
I really don't understand where all those doubts about something as common as combination of scripting and screen recognition being possible coming, especially when bots are infesting nearly every online game that came out in last two decades. If you are one of those people who believe that only things in range of their sensory organs exist, try google, it is wonderful tool. For starters go for "Elite Dangerous auto pilot", you will find videos of several functioning, programmable and use ready mini-apps being demonstrated. The rest is key scripting little child could learn. I will go no further from there as I don't want to support such approach to gaming, but this should suffice to to show you that yes, automated flying is no more impossible in ED than in any other game. Or real life.
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Agreed. Scripting tools these days make it quite easy if you have just a little programming background. In the case of ED, supercruise, hyperdrive, docking and commodity/mission menus are trivial. Only undocking and traversing the mail slot require slightly more thought, but 1-2 minutes thought reveals how easy that would be too.

I considered carefully whether I should be saying this on the forum, only because I don't particularly want people trying it themselves (and hopefully getting banned if they do), but let's face it, if the evidence is overwhelming that they already exist, as seen in that stream above, FD need to do something about it.

The converse of script bots is script bot detection. It's also a thing, and FD need to make it a thing.
 
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ilo

ilo
Merkir said:
Agreed. Scripting tools these days make it quite easy if you have just a little programming background. In the case of ED, supercruise, hyperdrive, docking and commodity/mission menus are trivial. Only undocking and traversing the mail slot require slightly more thought, but 1-2 minutes thought reveals how easy that would be too.

I considered carefully whether I should be saying this on the forum, only because I don't particularly want people trying it themselves (and hopefully getting banned if they do), but let's face, it, if the evidence is overwhelming that they already exist, as seen in that stream above, FD need to do something about it.

The converse of script bots is script bot detection. It's also a thing, and FD needs to make it a thing.
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I've been in the same situation for the entire thread, trying not to say much, but also thinking something more is needed to make it understandable. Nevermind, there are apps on the phone that can drive a car, imagine a game controller and a full HD screen with known icons.. pfff
 
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