ED - A Script Kiddie's Wet Dream

[nanite2000]

Yep, I was involved in the creation of multiple programs for FS using MS provided API and IPV DLL, Built an entire server based Cockpit, with multiple Displays all linked to the one sim. I'm ignorant alright.

I don't ever remember posting anything about building a bot. I could certainly do it, and without the log files too. But I haven't. You know why? Because I get a kick out of creating things other players can use to enhance their gameplay as much as I want to enhance mine. Not play their game for them. And if Fdev can get behind the sim builders there's a whole new area of exploration.

I started this morning, and had a webserver coded and running by lunchtime, feeding information from the logs to a separate display. Tomorrow, I'll add the GPS positioning advice to that display. That the player can heed or ignore. How that can be considered a 'bot' is beyond me, but hey, you're the expert.

I'm just plain ignorant.

Toodles

Errr...ummm...Bitstorm was quoting your own words to you. He wasn't calling you ignorant - just angry/aggressive/rude.

Your rudeness is something you have been called out on multiple occasions.

Maybe it's time to review how you communicate with people?

 

[fsdraconis]

I figure this is a good point in this discussion to add a perspective of someone who has not participated in Power Play at all yet.

The simplest and easiest form of "automation" against the game is bypassing the need to be at the keyboard to buy the cargo every 30 minutes. The software needed to do this is already on most gaming pc's. The quickest and easiest solution to stop this would just be 'get rid of the 30 minute' delay and instead set a cap per day. Then no matter what you can not exceed the day's quota. This brings it back to player ability instead of player time being unfairly wasted and wanting a bot to gain back the wasted time.

As for combat. There won't be any decent combat scripts. Instead using the game's own automated turret options that are built into the game while in a player group with a bunch of other commanders doing the same thing can net gains while being afk. Still, a player and even more a group of players actively playing will meet out better and quicker results. Especially if they are not limiting them selves to turrets.

Considering there is no player market. The gains for any sort of botting programmer is incredibly minimal. There isn't an army of chinese 'gold' farmers to contend against like in World of Warcraft where they literally have to remove tens of thousands of accounts monthly.

I'd be willing to bet that Frontier can just go into their statistics and view how many people have been in combat, and have not moved at all for over an hour. The gains against the BGS for power play are so easily countered though based on what I have read and seen. Maybe I am wrong though. But last I knew, you only need to hit the bar for the opposition force and then nothing happens no matter how much effort stacks up against them. The PP BGS either way you look at it is mostly a game of stalemate.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

There is a video on one of the popular streaming sites. Google 'Elite Dangerous Scripted Bots, December 2017'. It's the top result for me.

this is very interesting, and disturbing

 

[MottiKhan]

this is very interesting, and disturbing

Yes, it is. I hope FD find access to google soon.

 

[philngraves]

Lol at this game having 'end game content'. End grind content, sure. But it is, by no definition of the word, end game. Largely because this game doesn't actually have an 'end game'. Kinda like that... kinda get bored without it. It's like decided whether I like pizza or corn dogs better... depends on which I ate yesterday... and the day before... and the day before...

 

[ilo]

Lol at this game having 'end game content'. End grind content, sure. But it is, by no definition of the word, end game. Largely because this game doesn't actually have an 'end game'. Kinda like that... kinda get bored without it. It's like decided whether I like pizza or corn dogs better... depends on which I ate yesterday... and the day before... and the day before...

It can be 'end game play' for someone that is only interested in BGS, for example, it is not that bad. That doesn't change the fact that if FD knows about this and hasn't done anything at all they deserve a reprimand, a big one.

 

[coca_fr]

For the one wanting evidence of scripted bot to influence PP & BGS :
Evidence

It's the first link in google...

If you had search for Obsidian Ant key words and click on video tab... you would had fall on this video straight...

 

[Schmack]

When things get tight, the l33t close ranks and there will be no advertising of the goods except through more secured channels.

This is what they said on a show I watched.

 

[A D]

There is a video on one of the popular streaming sites. Google 'Elite Dangerous Scripted Bots, December 2017'. It's the top result for me.

I viewed the video. As evidence goes, a few indications that it could be bots. Anyone else watched it?

Anyway, its old news. Bots have been in space for ages:

Spoiler

 

[raeat]

The really important point of this thread, and my focus, is entirely on the effects of use of bots by script-kiddies. Bots can do much more than any human can. Bots don't need to sleep. Humans do. If the game is to remain relevant to we mere humans, the bot issue must be dealt with. Failure will make players irrelevant by just pure workload. Presumably, FDev has taken some action against some players, but 30 day bans are not going to deal with this. That will just result in a new generation of bots when 30 days have passed.

If FDev was willing to strip accounts and sanction players for using the engineering exploit a short while ago - what? because it is unfair to the players? - then the bot issue must be addressed in a way that will prevent new generations of bots. Otherwise players get to the end game, and being perfectly irrelevant will simply leave the game. Some of us actually do care about the future of the game. I am one such person. Even the engineer exploit didn't represent such a threat. FDev, this is a real threat to the game, that makes the engineering exploit look perfectly trivial.

 

[sollisb]

Errr...ummm...Bitstorm was quoting your own words to you. He wasn't calling you ignorant - just angry/aggressive/rude.

Your rudeness is something you have been called out on multiple occasions.

Maybe it's time to review how you communicate with people?

Rude yes.. Ignorant no.

I have little time for globalising and blanket denial. Of course there are bots. You'd need to be a complete idiot to deny it. How-ever! That in no means that everytime someone asks for something that they are writing bots. Or what they're writing is going to ruin the 'end game'.

If I wanted to write a bot I would write one, and i'd be a fool to be here chatting about it.

If someone wants to debate something, debate it on it's own merits. Not some farcical idea that 'scripting' is going to ruin the game. The thought process is akin to jihadi radicalisation. No-one actually asked or looked at what I asked for. It was an immediate knee-jerk, unthought out reaction, claiming bots. For sure, every bit of extra infor FDev give us, 'could' be used as 'not intended' that does not mean it is or it will. And lets not forget, that if someone wants to write a bot, they don't need any of the logs to do so.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that it's a game/sim/experience at the end of the day! It is not the wall street investment bank!

The game is devoid of 'classic game-play' depth and any form of immersion, so what's left is an amazing experience. Should we not be promoting ways to make that experience even better?

I'm here if I can to enhance the experience, not make peeps feel all fluffy inside with flowery prose.

 

[Kathryn Kando]

One question from the peanut gallery:

I understand that bots may exist, but not how we are doomed because of this. No player has any reliable data as to which extent bots are influencing the game (not counting the bazillion NPCs who are, well, bots). I am very confident that Frontier is acting when it becomes an issue. Just claiming it is an issue without having any evidence on how many bots scripted by players are in the game is a nothing burger.

FD has my trust on handling this matter if it becomes one.

So my question: Why bother?

 

[sollisb]

The really important point of this thread, and my focus, is entirely on the effects of use of bots by script-kiddies. Bots can do much more than any human can. Bots don't need to sleep. Humans do. If the game is to remain relevant to we mere humans, the bot issue must be dealt with. Failure will make players irrelevant by just pure workload. Presumably, FDev has taken some action against some players, but 30 day bans are not going to deal with this. That will just result in a new generation of bots when 30 days have passed.

If FDev was willing to strip accounts and sanction players for using the engineering exploit a short while ago - what? because it is unfair to the players? - then the bot issue must be addressed in a way that will prevent new generations of bots. Otherwise players get to the end game, and being perfectly irrelevant will simply leave the game. Some of us actually do care about the future of the game. I am one such person. Even the engineer exploit didn't represent such a threat. FDev, this is a real threat to the game, that makes the engineering exploit look perfectly trivial.

Watched the video. And, for sure it looks like automated departure scripts.

Question; So what? We automated entry, why not automated exit?
Question; What is the gain here?
Question; What are these players doing that effects the game?
Question; If as you claim, they are effecting the BGS; Why are they doing it? and How are they doing it?

Observation; If these players are using scripts, there is obviously a reason for it. ie: BGS manipulation; Let's say FDev ban them. That's the problem fixed? I don't think so. I would expect to see the scripts made available for all players with an interest in using them. And that, makes the issue a whole different ball-game. It's obvious that FDev cannot track this, (and i know why), so it's better to keep it confined. It's easy to say ban the accounts. But there is a much bigger problem looming if everyone can get their hands on this automation. Auto leaving stations is just an non-issue. If how-ever they have automated something that effects the BGS, then yes, it is a real problem. But, like most problems like this; Finding an elegant solution that fixes the problem entirely, Is I expect a difficult one.

I'm still at the stage of 'WHy would you bother with all this just to change the BGS' ?

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Make Bots play in Open!

 

[kpmop]

Watched the video. And, for sure it looks like automated departure scripts.

Question; So what? We automated entry, why not automated exit?
Question; What is the gain here?
Question; What are these players doing that effects the game? ...

From skimming the video it looks like they're doing powerplay deliveries, so they're boosting their powerplay faction. However they can't be doing it any faster than a regular player, just for prolonged periods of time. I can see why people who powerplay might get a little annoyed...

My question would be why are they doing it open/public PG? If FD can detect the bots then it doesn't matter where they do it, if they can't [detect bots] then do it in solo or private PG and no-one would ever know... huh maybe they are!

huh, this is possibly a reason we don't have multiple (free) accounts for the PC version! It might also be an argument for not having an all-singing/all-dancing auto-pilot.

 

[texasp8]

One question from the peanut gallery:

No player will ever be able to get reliable data on the extent of the bot problem. If you are waiting for this you will never be convinced. If these CMDRs had not played in open, this may well never have come out.

Note that NPC activity does not affect the BGS or PowerPlay.

FDev have seen the evidence. Don't forget that their priorities can be influenced by the players. If no-one knows it's happening, the players cannot make their views known.

 

[texasp8]

From skimming the video it looks like they're doing powerplay deliveries, so they're boosting their powerplay faction

They were not boosting Mahon PowerPlay; they were actively working against it by attempting to force a PowerPlay 'loss-making' system on to Mahon. It takes considerable player resource (both planning and in-game time) to counter this EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

As to why they did it in Open. I don't know. They must be mad. But if you name your ship 'I PREP SOHOLIA' and flew in Solo, no-one would see it. Perhaps they took enjoyment from goading us:

 

[M00ka]

Okay, it seems there are non-MoM bots running around the universe (in Open no less!) which seems to upset some players. So why don't these players just go and destroy the robotic ships? It be easier than a griefer shooting newbies since the bots probably aren't programmed to evade so interdiction should be easy. Wouldn't that be a better solution than wringing your hands in despair?

 

[voidwalker]

Gonna be honest, if a player can't actively engage in the activity, then they haven't actually earned the reward.

That's why botting/scripting needs to be blanket banned in gaming, which is supposed to be a meritocracy. If people are competing against a bot, and not you, then it's not actually you playing, and you haven't actually competed, so you haven't actually earned anything.

Kill all bots AND scripts.

That is all.

 

[texasp8]

just go and destroy the robotic ships?

Normally, they would mysteriously disappear from the instance if they were scanned (by NPC or Player) or if interdicted.

And we didn't want to make it too obvious we were 'on to them', for fear it would drive them to Solo where we could not document their activities.