Here's your first lesson in EVE: EVE is a game where you play other games at the same time. Suddenly there will be a reason to drop everything and log in like your life depends on it.
ED is not EVE. They are different type of games, dot
- Thread starter Resentina
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Here's your first lesson in EVE: EVE is a game where you play other games at the same time. Suddenly there will be a reason to drop everything and log in like your life depends on it.
Well it is hardly 'playing' EVE while playing other games. Unless those other games are EVE too...
You mistake 'playing' with 'waiting'.
I have played Eve, and I also played Elite back in the day, I've also played a number of other MMO's. I've beta tested a number of them, I even worked as volunteer customer service for one of them, and saw, from the inside, what went on with users/players/customers.
I'm by no means an expert, even with all of this experience with online and offline games, but I do have opinions based on those experiences.
Eve may very well have some features that, if implemented correctly, and without major dumbing down of Elite, be used. But too many features listed above, dumb it down to the point it's not worth loading the game.
Elite has always been one for thinkers, strategists, not primarily the FPS players. For those aspects that do require skills, those skills are personal skills, born of active practice, hard work, and not just click here, click there. Guiding your ship requires patience, combat requires skills, hand eye coordination, etc. Eve has removed the majority of these aspects, and made it more like click watch the action, click, watch the action.
Eve has it's niche, Elite has it's niche, they can both run, but they do not need to be merged.
For those that love Eve, fine, no problem, enjoy it, for those that love Elite, the same. For those that love both, great, fine and dandy. But we still don't need to merge them by making one look and feel like the other.
If you can't figure out how to operate a tablet, or get a notepad to be accessible when needed, then I'm sorry, but that's just how Elite is, and I personally trust FD and David Braben, to make the right choices. He's already stated their vision, very clearly, and to date, with very little deviation, has stuck to that vision.
For those that don't like Elite, I'm sorry, it's not for everyone, and you gave it your best shot. There are other games out there for you. It's wrong of you to try to take away what others love, because you don't like it, when there's something else for you.
Aaand you completely disregarded what I said. None of those suggestions would dumb ED down. Indeed, *they would have to be dumbed down* to be implemented. If you're suggesting that EVE doesn't involve patience, combat skills, and people with a penchant for tactics and strategy, then you're deluding yourself. If you think that things like decent galaxy map routing and robust player communication tools aren't needed for people with "strong personal skills", you're deluding yourself. If you think that a separate tablet or notepad is an appropriate replacement for actual, in-game tools, you are deluding yourself.
If you continue to assume that any attempt to MODERNIZE this gameplay is purely an attempt to dumb down the...the what? What gameplay? There's nothing HERE yet. It's just a *framework*. Things WILL BE ADDED. What are you afraid of?
If you think that Elite: Dangerous can survive in 2015 as a game with no significant gameplay advances since it's original incarnation, you are wrong.
No significant gameplay advances since it's original incarnation. Go play Elite again then come back.
You'd have gotten a better response if you were not brandishing the ideas you listed as ideas from EVE.
More social tools are being worked on, no real need in game pen and paper tools as I have a pen and some paper and a calc sat on my desk - but if people would use them, then fine.
As for the doom and gloom - you know what, you lost me there. Shoving your head up your ....... and spouting the game will die if you don't get your ideas is just so far our there. You have no idea what will make or break the game, neither do I but at least I'm not spouting a opinion as an excuse to bring in features I want.
Poor show there, you were off to a good start (excluding the EVE has it, so I want it here part - if they had been suggestions without that, would have been golden)
at least eve is a game not a possibility demo for 60$ 
as of late I am having more fun in the forums that in the tech demo
as of late I am having more fun in the forums that in the tech demo
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at least eve is a game not a possibility demo for 60$
as of late I am having more fun in the forums that in the tech demo
Elite is a game in it's own right, it's released, and better than most games I've beta tested have in the past, including Eve. Far less bugs than Eve had in the beginning, and it's taking less time to deal with those that have slipped through than Eve did. I was there in the beginning, and it was truly a disappointment, to many, the forums were a buzz with it, and look at it now, it's thriving. Not something I'd waste my time playing, but it still has a following and keeps going. There are people that will play it.
The same will be for Elite: Dangerous, but I suspect, it will grow more smoothly, and it will be guided by those that truly care, and not those looking for a quick buck.
at least eve is a game not a possibility demo for 60$
as of late I am having more fun in the forums that in the tech demo
TBH, I am quite enjoying Elite...
More so than I have ever enjoyed Eve.
I was addicted to Eve. It's the Kilo of crack sitting on your coffee table that you can't bring yourself to throw away when you're sober because you know you'll want it later.
I sit there at times while playing Eve, wondering why the hell I play that game..
The only time Eve is ever enjoyable is when you get the rush of adrenaline in PVP combat. However, when you're not the aggressor, you can be general certain that you won't win, unless you've got an insane fit that no one expected. Even then, you can't be certain that your insane fit is worth a crap, because there's always preferred fits and mechanics for ships in Eve.
There is usually no opportunities if Eve for the better pilot winning.
It's all about relative number crunching. Is my ship faster, more dps, more tank, better resists, more SP into related skills, better tracking, etc. etc. etc..
In Elite, a player with a noob sidewinder and fit can take down much larger ships if he's a good pilot.
Elite is essentially the rehab that's getting me over my Eve addiction.
Whether or not I can stay in Elite forever isn't the problem..
It has allowed me to find something to fix my addiction without all the crap that's in Eve that is bad for you...
Hi,
My name is HELLBOUNDMAN and I'm an Eve Online addict.
I've been sober for 2 weeks now and it's starting to feel good.
I never thought I would break an addiction that lasted almost 5-6 years, and almost killed me and my computer several times.
But I'm a better man now and can get on with my life, knowing that the worst is behind me.
So to summarize the thread from the perspective of pro-FD/84'ers:
If you don't like ELITE: Dangerous now, you will never like it and you should go back to EvE because it will never change.
Hmm. Okay.
If you don't like ELITE: Dangerous now, you will never like it and you should go back to EvE because it will never change.
Hmm. Okay.
Remiel
Banned
at least eve is a game not a possibility demo for 60$
as of late I am having more fun in the forums that in the tech demo
I know what context you're using that in, and you're wrong, but if this is a tech demo, then so was EVE when it came out, except the price was $15 a month, every month. Games like Elite and EVE are never finished, and no matter how much content there is, there is always someone complaining that there isn't enough. Elite, as it is, is far from a demo, but it does lack content, as did EVE in its first iteration.
No, not at all!
FWIW I'm not an "84'er" but I might have been if it had been available where I lived at the time (USA). So yeah, I'm an old gamer.
But I would never tell someone with an EvE background to go back to that game. I would tell them that this can never be "EvE with joysticks" which seems to be what some EvE players want, yes... but that's just an effort to help people understand how the game actually works. The network model just doesn't support it.
If you're interested in a fun hands-on-stick spaceship flying game, where you can (when Wings arrive) coordinate with a few of your friends for some pew pew fun, and take part in advancing the cause of your chosen factions, then you might enjoy this game. Maybe not yet, but in a few months when Wings arrive. Who knows? We don't even know how that will work yet. The game is young.
And there are other things coming like the EVA and planet landing stuff. It's a different type of space game, sui generis. You might enjoy it if you give it a chance.
I hear you when you say this, I also had a long stint in that universe (some plus 5 years extra ontop of yours). You are right, it was the people that held you to the game, I was there when voice chat hadn't really been heard of and RP to the game was extremely strong. Back in those days it was a case of using short learnt typed comm codes to communicate in PvP battles, WTM (warp to me), AMT (Attack my target), etc etc ... this kind of thing. Of course as time changed, time moved forward, the advent of comms programs came about and the dynamic of the EVE world changed, the strong RP fell away due to the fact peoples voices didn't really match their RP characters as some pilots were playing as female yet were really males. Voice chat changed all that, yet where the game lost something it also gained something, a different kind of magic.
Those long nights you speak of there, I can't count how many of those I partook in being a CEO to a corp and an executor to an alliance, if it wasn't Teamspeak alliance meetings, corp meetings, corp/alliance training, it was blackops hot drops or gate smashing or small raids 2, 3, 4 guerrilla warfare hunting packs behind enemy lines and lets not talk about the dread hot drops. Yes, EVE had/has it magic to those who delved deeper under its skin. It is not just about xml sheets or multiboxing, that is a woeful misconception by those who are really ignorant to the game. So yes, I agree with you, there are things to be learnt from EVE but we have to keep in mind as others here have pointed out, it is a different game, designed on a different foundation.
You say, FD should give us something like corp or alliances, things to fight other players over, I would hazard a guess that latter is coming somewhere down the line. I would also guess, it may end up a little like factional warfare as time moves on. I doubt you will get the corp or alliances but maybe you will be able to fight for a star systems security force, or run trade missions to keep the system supplied with goods etc, this could allow your people to really have a feeling of living in a star system and wanting to defend it against, pirates, factions, Thargoids or anything else that might come along in the future. Imagine, defending all that with your friends, over all different time zones.
I get that we see similarities and wants for the EVE universe but my thinking is, might we be looking in the wrong place? Personally, I see Mechwarrior Online and it's new community warfare upgrade as being something closer to what might be possible within the ED universe. This type of thing would allow for small gang sessions and reasons to fight for and defend things with all your hard earned credits.
I'd like you to have a look at this video, then replace mechs with ships, planets on defence/offence within star systems in ED. You see the structure of MWO is far closer to ED than EVE is. This is something to bear in mind when you guys ask for some form of community warfare. What if you were allow to join to a Empire, Federation or Independent house factions within a star system? Wouldn't that make you feel like you were part of something with your friends? Wouldn't that make you want to defend or go on the offensive if there were missions built around that loyalty to said group? What if there were weapon systems, or ship mods specific to your lived in star system? Wouldn't you have a strong pull to defend it?
Anyway, watch the video ... I think you'll get where I'm coming from and why this model would work better than having some kind of EVE model.
[video=youtube_share;yCqdAV1vc9Q]http://youtu.be/yCqdAV1vc9Q[/video]
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That factional warfare looks pretty awesome...it really adds context to the game and makes it more than just some DM/TDM. That is pretty damn awesome
!!! Nice. I wish I could get into Mechwarrior Online. I don't have anyone though whois interested in that necessarily though, as I get the idea it's pretty heavy on the teamwork thing.
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If you would read what I wrote, I said that those weren't specifically from EVE. I also said most of that list will likely be added over the course of the game's life anyway. Furthermore, you seem to have lost track of the point of this thread. I was not specifically going out of my way to say that "these are in EVE so they should be in ED", I was defending the OP's assertion that EVE has nothing ED should use. And, of course, the final statement is purely my opinion. But I'd happily bet money on the premise that if FD truly wants to keep this game as close as possible to the original (like it is now, as far as I'm concerned), they will not make enough money off of it to continue development very long.
These are my sentiments exactly. But I get the impression that it doesn't matter. The people who enjoy ELITE: Dangerous are those who simply enjoy ELITE. Whatever FD does beyond this point doesn't really matter, their game is out and they are enjoying it. For everyone else who isn't in that boat, we have to either get into it and enjoy it, or simply go away. So our concerns, even if we have an interest in the game, do not matter.
Oh sure they do. FD is a for-profit company, after all. There's no subscription fee for this game, which means that they need to bring in new blood. And word is already spreading, *fast*, that ED is Space Truck Simulator with a tiny, TINY bit of multiplayer. Multiplayer that is dwindling by the day as more and more pansies rush off to solo mode.
At the end of the day, FD really isn't going to have a choice. Add features to drive new purchases, or bleed money to support an ultra-niche game. And I'm 100% positive that as more players come in, opposition to solo mode affecting the open server will increase. People do NOT like having their hard work ruined by people that they can't possibly stop.
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While I do want the community aspects of Eve, I do NOT want the community mechanics of Eve.
I do NOT want the massive Null alliances that can dictate what happens on the market.
I do NOT want large groups of Tornadoes camping Nav beacons for freighters carrying billions worth of goodies.
I do NOT want griefers, awoxers, trade spammers, awox corps, war dec corps, can flippers, mission loot thieves, and all the general dramatic bull crap that is a part of Eve.
I ESPECIALLY DO NOT WANT GOONS running around dictating who is and isn't allowed certain places and what they are or aren't allowed to do.
I DO, however, feel that something needs to be done to better influence players to fight each other, without making it feel like players are burdened into pvp that they don't want.
It's fine to occasionally lose a ship to a player pirate, but this crap happens all to often in Eve.
This can be done through some sort of NPC war in which the players can get involved in order to push the front lines, kind of like Planetside II and the area control aspect it has, but done so in a way to where one side can't just overrun the whole galaxy, and also in a way to where it prompts balance of numbers but without being forced to a side.
I would also like to see this done in a way to where it doesn't effect those players like myself that enjoy the PVE aspects of the game.
The one and only thing I would like to see this game take from Eve that they probably don't already have planned
is the option to auto FSD to a location.
Like warping from a belt to a station in Eve, I would like to just hit FSD and it take me where I want to go without me having to control it.
However, the current mechanics need to stay in place as well.
this way you can still free cruise around like you currently do, and you would be able to shut off auto-cruise at any time, much like you can shut off auto dock at any time.
This community though isn't like that. It's stubborn and absolutely refuses to see anything else. If you try to speak up with a different point of view you get labeled a troll, a griefer, an exploiter, etc. By far, this is the most aggressive community I've seen because any deviation from the norm or what has been prophesied by FD in a dev update from two-years ago gets you branded as a heretic.
So yeah. You're just talking to a wall more or less, lols. If you're not praising FD and ELITE: Dangerous, nobody wants to hear what you have to say.
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Hey, look! Someone that can actually differentiate between useful and not useful things from EVE! Yay!
I agree on almost all points... I think one interesting way of implementing more interesting, choice-based PvP is to simply have *extremely* harsh police response in governed systems, but ensure that the fastest routes between factions are chock-full of lawless systems. Push PvP'ers into the lawless systems, and make it lucrative but NOT required for traders to go through them. If traders don't want trouble they take the slightly longer but infinitely more safe route.