ED Vs. Eve Online

[nhall72]

Well I'm happy to see some rational and well thought out posts in this thread.


I too am a long time Eve player and I love the game. Ironically, ED is the game I was looking for when I ran across Eve and it took me a long time to really get into Eve. But over time I really began to appreciate it for what it was and I now consider it to be one of my favorite games of all time. I'm still an active subscriber and I will continue to play it.


Eve is very unique in some important ways. The player driven economy and everything that comes from it are amazing. It really adds a lot of depth to the game. The single instance game world is also incredible. It's hard to appreciate the effect these things have unless you really experience it for yourself over time. I'm actually kind of an anti-social gamer. This would lead you to believe that ED's approach to multiplayer is my preference. Turns out, it isn't. I've never really interacted with anyone in Eve Online, but the emergent gameplay that is created by Eve's multiplayer is incredibly powerful and deep. Even though I just want to be left alone, I love being surrounded by it all!


I've been very excited about ED but there are a few things about it that disappoint me. For example, I HATE the way it just drops you in the doorway of the station when you come out of SC. For a game that's so immersive in so many ways it strikes me as a glaring flaw that immediately destroys any suspension of disbelief. It's as bad as Eve's warping through planets, lol. I understand there are gameplay reasons for these decisions. But I reject those reasons because they undermine the integrity of the game world.


At any rate, I'm very much looking forward to ED. It has a ton of potential. But it needs a lot of time to mature and realize that potential and I don't mean over the next few weeks...I mean over the next few years.

 

[Katkon]

I played EVE for a while and stopped when I realized it made me a bitter person/player. The so-called griefing in EVE is rampant beyond belief. Got tired of gate campers and trying to do "my thing" in hi-sec when I'd just end up being ganked by someone who thought it fun.

Griefing and ganking are possible in Elite, BUT the scale of the game will make this a practical non-issue. The galaxy is simply too big for this sort of thing to work in E: D, unless players continue to hang out in the "starter" systems post-launch.

I find Elite to be a FAR friendlier place. While many are still averse to communication, those that do tend to be very friendly. While PvP is absolutely possible (though on a smaller scale than EVE simply by virtue of the much larger galaxy in Elite), there isn't a whole lot of the "v" going on. I see a lot of players helping others - not much competition/griefing/ganking. That to me is the single biggest difference.

And then there are of course the actual flight mechanics - Elite requires skill to fly, EVE does not. Elite is, as a result, far more FUN (if flying's your thing).

Perhaps a third difference is that everything in Elite simply requires more effort: from docking to mining to trading. You name it, you'll need to put in more thought and effort with Elite than with EVE.

Of course, I'm biased - but I could NEVER go back to EVE after having toyed around in Elite. While the game's not perfect, I think it's heads and shoulders better than EVE (for my taste), but also fairly different.

Edit: one major downside with Elite currently is that it doesn't really leave up to its "Dangerous" name. Once you know how to fly and you're flying a decent ship, most NPC fights become a non-issue (unfortunately - and hopefully this will change). Player fights are another matter, and far more thrilling, but you have to seek out PvP pretty actively - I suspect 80-90% of the player-base are of the PvE variety.

 

[MASTER_DEATHDEALER]

EO is BORING, ED is EXCITING

ED right now, is better than EO will ever be.

ED takes serious skill to play, just docking us hard! i hope they dont dumb it down to attract EO players.

SC and ED will finally put EO out of its misery.

 

[FaolGlas]

I used to sit and mine in EVE when it came time to do my taxes, it made the taxes more interesting. But that is the level of involvement it required. It's more about the strategizing your next move than it is about flying around, and I do like to actually control my ship directly, not just point and click. That said, I did spend a long time playing EVE, would play for a month or two, leave for 6 months or so, and drift back later looking for a spaceship fix. But very different style of game, much more about resource management I would say, more of a "spreadsheet" type game in terms of figuring this out and that. ED can have that, but it can also have just jump into your ship, point it at something interesting and go!

 

[Decoy]

... Its always bothered me when people say that Elite is straight up better than EvE... Its like comparing Fallout 3/NV to Wasteland, and saying one is just better. Its entirely a matter of opinion, theyre fundamentally different games, with very loose connections which are mostly thematic. The things that draw a person to one or the other are completely different.

EvE is a slow paced, tactical game thats EXTREMELY economy driven. So much so that it could at times even lead entire player corporations to war! That's something you'll likely never see in ED, while Elite is a flight sim that throw's you in the cockpit of a ship with your hands on the throttle and stick.

I love both games. I played EvE for 8 years, but the focus of the games are entirely different, but in short: Elite is action, EvE is strategic, with completely different focus's for the game.

EvE is VERY largely political in nature, and if you dont involve yourself in that you can end up missing out on a LOT. Theres a really big misconception about EvE... Too many people have this preconceived notion of what they think it'll be like, and walk into it with the entirely wrong mindset. Some one compared it to a chess game, and that's actually really accurate. Its slow paced, strategic, like a long term space epic. Compared to Elite, which is more like a space action adventure. If you dont enjoy that kind of gameplay, you're likely to never find a home in EvE.

While Elite is also immensely satisfying, its for entirely different reasons. It's an action game at its core, throwing you into the pilots seat and into the heat of combat. Really its too fundamentally different to draw a fair or accurate comparison. Its like trying to compare chess to airsoft, and I'm not entirely sure why people do it. Both are great games, just depends on whether or not it's a game style that interests you.

This is a well written and thoughtful post on this subject.

ED right now, is better than EO will ever be.

ED takes serious skill to play, just docking us hard! i hope they dont dumb it down to attract EO players.

SC and ED will finally put EO out of its misery.

This is not. This is console-level fanboy-ism.

Crystles is correct. They're two very different games. And while I would love to see some aspects of Eve bleed over into ED (player inventory management, manufacturing, outpost ownership, etc.), my enjoyment of the experience is not particularly dimmed by their absence.

 

[Kestril]

Yeah, I'm jumping on the "direct comparison is a misnomer" spaceshuttle.

Here's the way I see it:

ED is more like firefly(smuggling and odd-jobs) meets a WWII arcade flight game(dogfights in space!) meets X-wing(power management).

Eve is more battlestar galactica(political tension) meets a WWII naval combat game(positioning-heavy large-ship fights) meets the stock market(player economy).​

I'm really trying to find some common ground here. I guess they both are in space and start with the letter E.?

I mean, there's no "better" answer here because they are so different.

Personally, I prefer ED, because I'm a flight arcade junkie, and loved the old X-wing and TIE fighter. At heart I'm a pilot, not an admiral. I tried the EVE free trial and couldn't stand it.

Also, can this forum really stop with all the potshots at people everywhere? When an unconstructive post is met with an unconstrutive potshot at a potentially wide base of users, it doesn't do much to keep things civil and spark discussion.

 

[Goilveig]

Yeah, I'm jumping on the "direct comparison is a misnomer" spaceshuttle.

Here's the way I see it:

ED is more like firefly(smuggling and odd-jobs) meets a WWII arcade flight game(dogfights in space!) meets X-wing(power management).

Eve is more battlestar galactica(political tension) meets a WWII naval combat game(positioning-heavy large-ship fights) meets the stock market(player economy).​

I'm really trying to find some common ground here. I guess they both are in space and start with the letter E.?

I mean, there's no "better" answer here because they are so different.

Personally, I prefer ED, because I'm a flight arcade junkie, and loved the old X-wing and TIE fighter. At heart I'm a pilot, not an admiral. I tried the EVE free trial and couldn't stand it.

Also, can this forum really stop with all the potshots at people everywhere? When an unconstructive post is met with an unconstrutive potshot at a potentially wide base of users, it doesn't do much to keep things civil and spark discussion.

I think the other major distinction is that EVE is really an MMORPG at heart; fundamentally it's based on character stats/skills and random numbers. ED is really a flight simulator at heart; fundamentally it's based on player's piloting skills. Rather than your weapons having X% chance to hit based on your distance and skills, whether or not you hit the enemy ship here is merely a function of range and aim - are you able to line up a shot better than the enemy can dodge it or escape your line of fire?

 

[aRtFuL]

The original Elite created the entire space opera genre in gaming.

That's all needed to be said about any such comparison imo

 

[troe666]

ED is nothing like XWing vs Tie Fighter. That game had fun missions and enjoyable large battles.

 

[Kestril]

ED is nothing like XWing vs Tie Fighter. That game had fun missions and enjoyable large battles.

I was referencing the "dogfighty" flight model and squadron-like combat at the larger end with some large capitol ships here or there in the backdrop as nice shooty setpieces. Also, the shield/weapon/thruster management present in ED is similar to the shield and weapons management in X-wing.

Are you implying that ED doesn't have fun missions and enjoyable large battles?

 

[cptzipzap]

while the xwing series are holy for me and i even boight the gog version and played half way through , elite has the better potential for large battles. maybe the beta missions are missing a bit dynamic and side mission stuff.. but thats possible to add. you can jump in and out of a war bubble. there are bigger and smaller ships etc. maybe a big carrier ship is missing could be alien.. anyway dogfight in elite is of course much smoother. the only reason to play xwing is nostalgia and star wars sounds..

 

[Snyperal]

Eve is a life sapping tour. It's depth,variety and long term nature means it's not something you can master is a month or two. Simmering political tensions, spying espionage and betrayal are rife. It's built for teamwork fleet ops and powerbases. playing solo while okay, you'll get more out of it when you're flying with people.

It comes into its own when you're part of a fleet op putting titans, supercarriers and dreadnaughts on the line, these ships have a colossal value both the real world monetary value and the time spent building the skills to fly them.

But I think I grew tired of waiting around. The time spent waiting and organising and building the fleet then traveling or hunting an enemy only for them to either not show up or delaying tactics while they assembled combative forces. A 7 clock op. If you're lucky would see combat by 9. More often than not it would be ten or eleven at night no fun if you're working or have a partner.

Ed is turn it on,get stuck in. There's a lot to be said for that.

Sorry if my post is a bit rambly I've got a hangover.

 

[JeffRyan]

A lot of good posts in this thread. Keep it up.

There are a lot of similarities in terms of core gameplay. Which is the post I /tried/ to type last night, but my one year old kept hammering the keyboard. The core idea of EVE from launch was basically a 3rd person version of Elite, mainly due to the limitations of the internet 11 years ago. The idea of flying around space, trading and fighting. But with friends! Of course, it went off in a different direction. One of the fundamental difference for me is that EVE is actually REALLY boring in terms of 'game'. Solo really doesn't exist, unless you're the solo pilot into PvP. And that requires other players.

Ironically the thing I lament the most in EVE is also the key to its longevity. The players. Having good friends (Myst, Courtie, Jim I salute you!) is key and in reality, EVE was the backdrop to my social game which was political, keeping together a corporation, building an alliance and trying to provide opportunities for your alliance. Whenever I tried to actually play the game I usually ended up mind-numbingly bored, though I know others didn't. Myst loved a good fight, Courtie loved scanning down wormholes and Jim loved his mining ops.

 

[thetransfer]

i still dont get why this conversation even happens - by now even squibs born in 2002 know what elite is, it's place in history etc and that eve is, well, i tried it for a month backwhen; felt like a phone dating game with a surplus 3d engine strappon designed for optimum fanboy wallet penetration to me.
But then i've been playing with vehicals offroad since the age of 9, on road since the age of 14, so as you can imagine I played every cockpit based game i could get my hands on from Revs to Freespace 2 cos i luvs that feeling... but hey i've def had too many knocks, cos i really dont get why half the blockbusters do so well, like WoW n COD seriously, what the actual? - anyways eve didn't make it into the toybox cos it felt like a job i was paying to do.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

However..Some of the things they do right would fit in great here at ED. For instance the factional warfare system they have would be excellent here I think. A form of consensual pvp that people can either opt in to or out of in support of their chosen faction here in ED. It wouldn't even have to be "limited" to pvp, it could encompass all roles in ED in support of chosen factions.

Wishful thinking maybe.

I assume this will happen one way or another. Maybe not something to opt in and out of, but as players build up their reputations with factions and make enemies with others, it's only natural that sooner or later, we'll find players aligned to opposed factions and ending up with hostile status towards each other.

But back on Topic: I agree with those stating that it doesn't have to be 'vs'.

I've played the original Elite, I've played all Wing Commander Games, I've played Eve for nine years, I've backed ED and SC. All have their pros and cons.

Out of the ones I've mentioned, Eve is probably the biggest outlier - it's not a space combat sim, its space-combat part is more akin to an RTS like the Homeworld / Sins of a Solar Empire series games. And then there's the entire player driven politics and management aspect in the background. Eve devs themselves have stated that it's an homage to Elite, not a successor.

Just as Eve learned from the original Elite, ED can learn a lot from Eve (from both - its achievements and mistakes) - especially from its multiplayer aspects as there has been no Elite game with multiplayer thus far.

Things like a truly persistent universe can never be achieved in Elite, there wont be space battles lasting for days involving tens of thousands on the field (personally hated those), but it can learn a lot about emergent multiplayer sandbox gameplay which ultimately can provide more longevity than any number of solar systems.

To some extent, I've always viewed Eve as a social experiment. FD would be foolish to ignore that data.

 

[Robert Maynard]

To some extent, I've always viewed Eve as a social experiment. FD would be foolish to ignore that data.

I don't imagine for one moment that Frontier are unaware of the data - it may be that the group switching mechanic was implemented as a way to counter some of the observable gameplay styles.

 

[wss5112]

Dear All,

Firstly, I'm not part of the beta so any comments I make are purely down to what I have seen on YouTube and read.

I draw a great deal of parallels between ED and EO (Eve Online), rightly or wrongly. What I see in ED is a far more immersive edit of EO with regards to mining and PVP. What a shame the entry price of playing the beta is so high, perhaps a lesser amount may draw more EO players over but that's up to Fronter to decide.

Do we have any EO veterans playing the beta? I'd love to hear your comments.

Daz

YES! you are saying the exact thing I've been thinking of ED all the time.

Isn't ED just about immersive version of mining and PVP or PVE?
Is there anything exclusive to ED? I don't think so...
I hope we can have something competitors don't have, like planetary landing (real free-flight not SC's assistive flight)
But what we have is just first-personed mining and PVE...what a shame

 

[JeffRyan]

YES! you are saying the exact thing I've been thinking of ED all the time.

Isn't ED just about immersive version of mining and PVP or PVE?
Is there anything exclusive to ED? I don't think so...
I hope we can have something competitors don't have, like planetary landing (real free-flight not SC's assistive flight)
But what we have is just first-personed mining and PVE...what a shame

So have you actually played the game yet?

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I don't imagine for one moment that Frontier are unaware of the data - it may be that the group switching mechanic was implemented as a way to counter some of the observable gameplay styles.

Of course they are, but from my perspective they mostly see the mistakes eve made and not enough of its positive aspects. Eve has some terrible mechanics - the ubiquitous blobbing, local as an intel tool, force projection etc...etc...

However Elite combats all those on multiple levels and doesn't seem to learn much from the positive aspects. Personally, I think free mode switching is superfluous if there already are parallel instances and a lack of chokepoints. It's a con for me, but I need to accept that the devs decided otherwise and make a decision if it's something that deters me from playing the game.

It doesn't.

I wont give any reaons as I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Dr Roly]

Main differences?

1) ED has much better 1 on 1 combat, EO shines whith large tactical battles.
2) ED is much less of a grind, and low level progression is actually fun (of course you can turn ED into a boring grind if you really want to).
Most important:
3) ED players are just... nicer.