ED Vs. Eve Online

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Of course they are, but from my perspective they mostly see the mistakes eve made and not enough of its positive aspects. Eve has some terrible mechanics - the ubiquitous blobbing, local as an intel tool, force projection etc...etc...

Avoiding the pitfalls on the one hand does mean that Frontier should, on the other hand, copy the parts that are perceived by some to be better - this is a different game, after all.
 
I have played EvE Online solidly since 2007. Loved it and have enjoyed my time in the game but every time i get a free trial now i log in, set a skill and lose interest. Great game, still follow the story and the forums a little. but don't think i will be going back anytime soon. Elite is everything i have ever wanted in a space game. The x-series scratched that itch for a long time and i hope we can own stations and perhaps systems as a group in the future.
CCP always promised walking in stations but all we got was captains quarters. I feel ED can deliver on everything they plan to.
 
Avoiding the pitfalls on the one hand does mean that Frontier should, on the other hand, copy the parts that are perceived by some to be better - this is a different game, after all.

Well different doesn't mean that FD don't have to sit and take notice of things that work that in other games. Copying is a strong word that I think need not apply here. Take a idea make it better like developers have been doing with all games for the last 20 years.

I happen to think that EVE's factional system is a really good fit for ED. Its bound to come in sooner or later that players align to support their chosen factions and the devs will make content for those that want to participate. What id suggest is that FD look at how CCP handle their version of this (im sure they must have) and adapt some of the brilliant concepts of that into ED which i think is a far better fit for the system that EO was due to the way ED has few boundaries which are inherent in the EO system.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Well different doesn't mean that FD don't have to sit and take notice of things that work that in other games. Copying is a strong word that I think need not apply here. Take a idea make it better like developers have been doing with all games for the last 20 years.

I happen to think that EVE's factional system is a really good fit for ED. Its bound to come in sooner or later that players align to support their chosen factions and the devs will make content for those that want to participate. What id suggest is that FD look at how CCP handle their version of this (im sure they must have) and adapt some of the brilliant concepts of that into ED which i think is a far better fit for the system that EO was due to the way ED has few boundaries which are inherent in the EO system.

Different in that the emphasis is not on player control but rather player involvement. One person's "adapting" may well be another person's "copying" - not to say that adaptation is wrong, of course - as you say, it has been happening in game design for a long time.

We already have factions - except that they are NPC controlled, again with player involvement on the single pilot level.
 
I've played EVE for a decade, I like it for different reasons that can't be found in any game, it has always been a long term game, and the combat a focus on tactic/strategy like a RTS which I like as well. I've been at the centre point of many things over the years, when wormholes just came out I was in the most infamous wormhole corporation, Aperture Harmonics, we were also the first to lead the largest wormhole eviction in EVE's history of wormholes to date. We even had a video of Rooks and Kings hunting us for a year in wormholes, here is that video, I was in it too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYe_4vHzgE

I've been through multiple things like this over the last 10 years, I like EVE for what it is, there are some concepts games can learn from it, but I don't want another EVE, I have one already. I like Elite for different reasons as well, it's always odd to see people try and compare all these sort of space games, all of them do things wildly different that they're not really comparable.

Also, the last few years with CCP Fozzie & Rise especially, there's a lot other games can learn about EVE and balancing techniques, and making sure every ship has a purpose and can be modified for different purposes it may excel in different ways in, lots of games either make things "good or bad". That's something I've admired of EVE's balancing the last few years, when those two designers came on board, they revitalised entire tiers of ships and made them have a purpose.

That's what I think ED is doing well right now too, the current ships serve particular purposes and can be outfit to excel in different ways, there is no linear progression or "this is the best ship" and so on.

One thing that EVE rivals is player-driven events and its economy, it's the most complex and largest economy other than our real life one, that's a feat on its own, and that's why there are people that just play it for that. There's even player-run DHL/UPS/Fedex in the game where you can contract corporations to move assets for you to another station for trading or whatever, those players play for the sole reason of trucking that in the freighters around, and it contributes to the game's economy. That's the pinnacle strength of what defines the game and that no other game in terms of economy/player-driven experience has ever delivered on, a much respected fact people seem to overlook. It is the only complex economy that mimicks our real life one so closely in human psychology and concepts that drive it.
 
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On my way to seeking a Game like Elite I try many Games which try to be like ... (Is there someon who renember aboput F.O.F.T Free Organisation of Free Trader ? ... great Ideas, but MORE BUGGY than First Encounter) ... X-Series Trys but the System didn´t feel real.... then I get on a Games COn in Leizig a Demo of EVE .... and for a few Years it feels good. The First break was the Losing of Jumppoints ... My Corp and I make hundred of fast Jumpponts to the Gates, so that it was possible to travel even in hostile Space with Transporter and Escort very fast. But then the PVP Player Whine...we can´t kill them please remove it, and they do. Ok than I leave the Corp, and try to build my own stuff ... Missions and Mining in HIghsec until the last Final Gamekiller for released .... Kill possibility in HighSec (PK Steal with a Shuttle Ore --- You attack him (accidently kill the Ship) --- he and his friend comes with big ships... web you and say "Pay ous money or your Mining Ship get destroyed...you pay and pay and pay and they kill you" .... you wrote to CCP about that Blackmailing, and they say its part of the Game now.
But that is the Past and shall show my EVE Experience .... btw in the origin it was told that you connect with the "Egg" like in Matrix, why than you need a Captains Rooms????
EVE is a Game about Skilling/Trading/Building an Corporation ... ED is different you are only a Single Pilot in a Huge Galaxy, which try to survey in his own way.... which way you take is yours. The skills are your OWN, you only get the Tools to use it ...
 
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Avoiding the pitfalls on the one hand does mean that Frontier should, on the other hand, copy the parts that are perceived by some to be better - this is a different game, after all.

Indeed - and that's why I quoted Jezzahs post. Take conflict drivers as an example - right now, if I wanted to engage in PvP (not much of a PvP person myself), I have a couple of options in ED.

  • I could go to one of the combat zones and side with one of the factions, fighting players who sided with the opposing faction. To me, it feels a bit lacking - like entering a pvp arena, picking a team like on FPS server and pew-pew way. It doesn't bring across the feeling of fighting for a higher purpose, it doesn't get me involved, it's limited to the Arena (at least for now, by the looks of it).
  • I could try to pirate other players. I admire the players trying to play as pirates despite so many mechanics going against them. Lots of people on these Forums have that romanticised Errol Flynn vision of what a pirate should be like, however I would simply view that as mugging, and whilst personal enrichment may be a valid ingame reason to engage in combat, it's not really a higher goal. It's just something I personally wouldn't do - especially when it's far easier to make credits otherwise.
  • I could play as a bounty hunter, but the same criticism as in the previous point largely applies.
  • I could just fly around and randomly kill people - nothing wrong with that, but amassing kills is not a really an engaging or clear objective, so not my cup of tea.


In Eve, I only fired my guns as a means to an end, not an end in itself. Admittedly, many didn't act that way in Eve, but at least the game provided the depth to do just that. There is no need for large player controled empires or megacorporations in ED to achieve that, but someone mentioned Eves factional warfare. Ongoing fights between players aligning themselves with different political NPC entities with dynamically shifting borders, Commanders on both sides building names, flying together and organizing themselves to fight for a common higher goal and bearing grudges against notoriuos Enemies (which I often found to evolve into friendships later in Eve) - that kind of gameplay is something where ED can learn a lot from Eve.

Just an example - made an own thread about it here to keep this one on topic.
 
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I've played EO for a few years and quite enjoyed it, but to be honest I think that ED is the game that I wished EO was. I will be cancelling my subscription with EO now.
 
I played both games, I loved both games but I stopped EVE because of subscription. If I had a bit some more time, I could pay a PLEX month with in-game money but it's hugely expensive and I couldn't made it.

I had my Hurricane, a Minmatar battlecruiser, a Mining Barge, a nice corporation that they also give tips and advices. If I could pay some month, I certainly would have paid.

Elite: Dangerous have it's bunch of similarities, but EVE is mostly a sort of RTS where you command your ship (and not pilot directly). Elite: Dangerous is a pure action dogfight game where your piloting skills mostly count. Sometime I even play some music from EVE Online while traveling.

This game also bring back a lots of memories when I played Star Wars: X-Wing vs Tie Fighter when I was young (and also for the music, I hope FD will release a digital OST!!).
 
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I'm glad ED isn't any other generic space based game, its one pilot in one ship, I can't think of anything worse than moving 10 light years to find yet another conglomerate or ton of tourists hogging the vacuum.
 
ED is not trying to be EVE, so they should't really be compared. ED is more of a traditional game where you can kick back and play an hour after work without having to worry about anything other than yourself. In EVE you have to sink hours into the game per day if you want to accomplish something. Luckily this is not hard because that game gets addictive very fast. EVE also has a point where after 6-12 months of playing solo you have to make a decision whether to join a corporation or not if you want more out of the whole experience. Some things in EVE can only be accomplished with the help of a coordinated group.

However there are definitely things ED can borrow from EVE without committing to being a hardcore PVP oriented MMO.

Persistence: ED appears to have very little of it outside of your ship, your credits and your rank. In EVE, if I'm out traveling in the less populated regions and come across a small fleet of NPC ships around a jump gate, those ships will still be there if I return hours later unless someone else has destroyed them (in which case the wrecks will be there, maybe, unless someone has salvaged them). In ED persistence only lives on as long as there are players around. NPC ships are created and destroyed because your (or someone elses) PC rolled a dice.

Purposefulness of items: In EVE almost every item in the game has some purpose that different from the monetary value it holds. If someone is transporting items from point A to B it can be for several different reasons, not necessarily profit. In ED if someone is transporting something from A to B it's only for making credits. Basically the items aren't real, they are just numbers taken from a list at location A and deposited to a list at location B. The numbers can be dropped into space in containers but they are still just numbers that represent a monetary value. If someone scoops up cargo it's to sell it for credits. In ED you have ships, modules and market items, they are all different. In EVE they are all the same, a ship is an item, a module for the ship is an item, ammunition is items, and they can all be traded on the same market. Only free stuff is exempt from being sold on the market, like the starter ship you receive.

Seamlessness: People like to rip on the gates in EVE, saying it's just a way to connect rooms together. Well ED is the same even though it doesn't have any gates, but that's just a technicality. EVE too has ships that doesn't need gates. ED however, due to the terrible SC exit mechanics, feels like a disjoint series of rooms even when you're sticking to the same system. This is turn makes you feel like every room is a separate mini-game. Exit SC near a station; pop! welcome to the docking mini game. Exit SC near a resource extraction site; pop! welcome to the mining mini game. Flying in SC; welcome to the interdiction escape mini game. I really hope they can fix this in the future. Doing the P2P AFTER exiting SC, and then fading in other ships as connections are established would already be a hundred times better than the current system. Also some people seem to believe that in EVE they can't hang around in space with nothing around them, like between two planets far away from any points of interest but that's not true. Yes the warp drive requires a target but that can be a target you set up yourself anywhere you want to. You're not physically removed from regular space when you enter warp in EVE.

A living universe: Somehow the ED universe feels largely devoid of life (and it's not due to the lack of player interaction). Even systems with billions of inhabitants have just a few stations and they aren't even that big. When you dock to a station in ED it doesn't feel like you're entering a place inhabited by millions. I hope and believe this will be fixed over time as they add more content, I mean just seeing some persistent NPCs would help a lot. ED is a game which focuses mainly on PVE interaction but right now the universe is populated by mindless drone pilots and faceless bulletin board mission.
 
I ended my EvE with a ban with a style. I set circular path between all 4 main trade hubs, and when I entered new system with tens to hundreds of people I copy pasted link to ED in local (chat).

Soon after saw pretty big spike of new backers in forums here after that, dont know if I had much to do with it.
 
I ended my EvE with a ban with a style. I set circular path between all 4 main trade hubs, and when I entered new system with tens to hundreds of people I copy pasted link to ED in local (chat).

Soon after saw pretty big spike of new backers in forums here after that, dont know if I had much to do with it.

so funny. like odering a bigmc at burgerking.
 
Dear All,

Firstly, I'm not part of the beta so any comments I make are purely down to what I have seen on YouTube and read.

I draw a great deal of parallels between ED and EO (Eve Online), rightly or wrongly. What I see in ED is a far more immersive edit of EO with regards to mining and PVP. What a shame the entry price of playing the beta is so high, perhaps a lesser amount may draw more EO players over but that's up to Fronter to decide.
Do we have any EO veterans playing the beta? I'd love to hear your comments.

Daz

An oldie from 2004:
[video=youtube;RtQY4dz4r4o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtQY4dz4r4o[/video]
There's a bunch of us 2003 EvE onliners here on the alpha/beta. The pvp in Elite Dangerous is what was missing in EvE, it's a breath of fresh air, I can tell you. It's close to release now, I'd just wait and buy it on release.

Shok.
 
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The thing that makes ED great is that it is so very different than EO. These differences appeal to me, "a person that played EO for almost 13 years". When I left Eve I had (3) titans, (2) Super carriers, and quite a few other assets that are still on the books over there. Means nothing, to me the game is horrible, I'll never go back.

But I do understand they're still a few who like it, and are very loyal too it. So just exactly where do you think the 10 or 20 million prospective players that CCP openly let there self righteous players run off from there server going to end up? Maybe just maybe, those players would like to participate in a new space game, where they might be able to tune the players out, that do not appeal to them.

The bottom line here, is the less like EO, that ED becomes, the greater ED will become. Many players are looking to go somewhere, and it's not back to EO.
 
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Beta tested EO and was there on first day of release.
A brilliant game when first released, never been nothing like it since Elite, but after a few months, when peeps started getting a few kills to their name, thats when all the [redacted] started to fly on the forums and from there it found its way into the game. it was always a sad fact that, folks would personally slander individuals, not the character, but the very people who paid and played while the mods and gm's watched and read but did nothing to discourage.

Put me right off.

Dryza.
 
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EVE bitter vet checking in. I do lots of PvP and solo incursions with a 15-account ISBoxer setup. I don't care for the toxic community though, so I'm hoping ED is not EVE 2.0.
 
The thing that makes ED great is that it is so very different than EO. These differences appeal to me, "a person that played EO for almost 13 years". When I left Eve I had (3) titans, (2) Super carriers, and quite a few other assets that are still on the books over there. Means nothing, to me the game is horrible, I'll never go back.


Interesting post. Now I've unsubbed EO quite a while ago and wont go back. Didn't leave nearly as many assets behind as you did.

Yet your post is quite clear - you've spent 13 years of your spare-time on a game you consider terrible.

Okay...

With all due respect: What is your major malfunction?

Don't answer, I personally don't care - just pose the question to yourself.
 
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