Elite Dangerous Game Engine / Ship Interior question.

Hi All,

Yes, this is another daily thread discussing ship interiors (I already forgave you for rolling your eyes).

Yes, we all know Frontier has consistently given a flat NO to ship interiors (essentially). Also looking at the comms from Elite and the Elite community management guys (who are legends and do an amazing job!) there has been a clear emphasis on downplaying the issue and dismissing it as a complete non starter.

So, why am i digging this up again?

Well, Frontier has clearly taken the logical choice towards increased monetization which thankfully has clearly helped improve things and also helps encourage more investment into the game we all love/hate/love. Overall the way they have handled monetization has been really fair towards the community as a whole (the option to buy ships with credits etc) and has maintained a symbiotic relationship with all players.

Monetization in Elite is a goldmine, and looking at the early financial data the proof is in the pudding. Obviously, they need to manage it wisely because they don't want it to back fire and harm their long standing core player base who traditionally do not expect to fork out money. Especially considering that Elite (I could be wrong here) is not as big in the US where culturally there is more willingness to financially invest in games. I would presume that Elites playerbase is highest in Britain, Ireland, wider Europe and then the USA, Canada etc I dont think the financial potential would match a similar game who's core audience is based primarily in the US, or Asia where the market is much bigger and the culture of investing in video games is much greater. In other words, culturally I believe Americans and the Asian gamer market would see more people willing to spend for ingame items than your average European (again, that may be inaccurate).

So with ship interiors, I'm sure many of us have asked ourselves, 'what would it take for Elite to introduce ship interiors'.

The obvious answer? (especially now): The opportunity for monitization.

If we could walk around the inside of our ships, lets be honest, it would be very tempting to spend 10, 20, 30 euro to make a ship feel like YOURS. Think of all the things frontier could sell: Seat covers, alternative control layouts, tables, window tints, beds, posters, weapon racks, internal light colours, different styles (pirate / trader / warrior / explorer / specific to your power).. just about anything, to customise the interior of your ship. Right now we can buy things for the cockpit, but imagine if you could do the same thing in your ship interior.

Look at games that use that logic, Fallout 76 springs to mind, they make a lot of money selling trinkets they roll out every few days. People spend a lot of time and money customising their base. Even if you had unlockable things associted with certain achievements / gameloops, it could add to the overall experience.

With all that said I have one specific question that keeps me awake at night, and is the main reason I started this thread:

Is it a case that Frontier are not able to implement ship interiors (Engine constraints and so on)
Or is it a case that they simply chose not to? (Costs too much to design and implement)

Is there anyone literate in game development that would have a fair idea? Because I think its obvious that it would be a big opportunity for them to increase their financial returns from Elite.
do not be like this and more importantly dont forget the truth where elite dangerous raised a lot of money, but instead of fdev putting the money back to develop the game they made zoo and tycoon games that completely flopped. What they are doing now is asking for even more money with increased monetization.
Funny how quickly people forget
 
Right, crashed and derelict ships would be a great opportunity.
But imagine the flame war if Fdev would tell the player base, that they can't walk around during flight...
"This isn't the interiors we ordered!!1!"
I think most would be fine with that it as a compromise. I would be.
I'll be honest:
Even interiors were implemented as a simple box to walk in with crewmates, it'd be enough for me.
I can even imagine it with limitations and I'd still be fine with it- from cockpit you fade from black to change scenery and the ship is required to be stationary and have its engine off or brakes on.
Even if it was just a single preset room or a few customization options to pick from, it'd be a significant thing to share with someone.
Oh and as a final note- if the ship's attacked, I don't mind that it's either an alert or an instant fade-to-black teleportation back to the seat.

As long as it would let us walk inside of it with a friend or significant other, looking out of the window at the stars together or a planet's landscape...
Roleplaying from the simple comfort of an interior with an ingame beverage, coffee or beer- it'd be enough for me.

And sure, at the risk of derailing this thread-- I dearly wish for more On-Foot content:
who wouldn't love the space fantasy fulfillment of boarding an ominous derelict ship or station with friends or boarding one of those luxurious liners in EVA for the mission to assassinate a VIP on-foot inside it... it's all just dreams.
More realistically, they could even expand on Odyssey's station concourses with On-Station missions in them, they're really gigantic locations that could be fleshed out more with On-Foot content.
As it has been mentioned: the cost of development in remodeling every single ship to fit an interior and exterior would be a huge investment.
Even adding a walkable interior that fits every ship would be a lot of time, effort and money but absolutely possible.
It's doubtful that will ever happen.

We don't even have walkable ELWs likely because it would take so much to deliver it at a high quality with enough variety.
I agree. Stations could really be fleshed out more, especially with the magic lifts that could take you to many places within the station.
 
do not be like this and more importantly dont forget the truth where elite dangerous raised a lot of money, but instead of fdev putting the money back to develop the game they made zoo and tycoon games that completely flopped. What they are doing now is asking for even more money with increased monetization.
Funny how quickly people forget
You have proof the money raised was used for those projects and that they didn't raise funds separately?

O7
 
You have proof the money raised was used for those projects and that they didn't raise funds separately?

O7

FRONTIER DEVELOPMENTS PLC
ANNUAL REPORT AND ACCOUNTS 2015
CASH AND CASHFLOW
The Group’s operating cashflow was £7.3 million, supported
by the public release of Elite Dangerous. The Group invested
£4.4 million in non-current assets, being development costs
for the franchises of Elite and Planet Coaster plus the continued
investment in our underlying COBRA technology. Working
capital was relatively static as the Group switched revenue
streams, and debt repayment of £0.2 million was made to repay
the Group’s (Canadian subsidiary) interest-free loan from the
federal-backed Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, thus
bringing the Group back to a debt free position. The overall
impact was an increase of £2.1 million in net cash and cash
equivalents to £10.5 million, continuing to support the Group’s
investment and growth plan.
 
Successfully implementing ship interiors the way players want, that is the way Star Citizen does, is far harder than it appears to the average player. There's a reason Fleet Carriers make you all sit down in a seat before jumping, because what people want is not easy.

Going to echo this comment because it's effectively the reality.

We would already have ship interiors if it was within Frontier's capability to do, with the resources and time they have available. I think people forget that the Elite Dangerous development team is orders smaller than CIG's development team. Frontier is also operating with a much smaller community of (active) players (and by extension, funding; adding something as massive as ship interiors is potentially a multi-year investment needing a lot of dedicated resources to build the entire capability, across multiple disciplines).

The reality is, nothing short of the fully interactive, full nav-mesh, physicalised ships - down to cockpits, components, cargo spaces and so on - would be accepted. We all know this. Frontier knows this. There is no middle ground; anyone suggesting there is, is being a little bit dishonest (and it's just special pleading to argue such).

As to why? Time, resources, intent. The first two are very likely to be the key reason. The third is really a value proposition, for a very long time, Elite Dangerous was an investment source for other IP development; that's not actually uncommon, for one game to help fund another and it's allowed any number of excellent games to see the light of day as a result. It's also a double edged sword in that a pretty large number of subsequent titles have failed, to one degree or another (something Frontier has also experienced).

The amount of time and resources needed to rework multiple ships, however, developing the architecture to have ships be a navigable space, the massive amount of things that need to be physicalised, building all the navmesh and interactables? Odyssey shows the engine is capable of quite a lot, but also some of its limitations. The Cobra engine would not make it easy on Frontier to implement.

Asking for interiors for ships, is akin to asking Frontier to ground up rebuild the game. That is what it translates to. Genuinely. It's that big of a deal. And that is why they haven't happened, basically. I am without any doubt at all, Frontier would like to add interiors. But wanting to, and being able to, are two entirely different things. So they focus on other features, instead.

Star Citizen is such an incredibly delayed, buggy, beautiful mess of a game, precisely because Chris Roberts keeps saying yes to every idea imaginable and whilst it's finally starting to show some promise, is likely a decade away from being a game and not just a large number of different and mostly disconnected mechanics.

There is something of a cautionary tale, there.

Lastly, I would very much like to see interiors. I firmly believe it would 'finish' the game in ways nothing else ever will. However, I recognise the costs and risks Frontier face, to implement it. And so I don't keep endlessly asking them to do something I know they would do, in a heartbeat, if the opportunity arose. I don't think it's ever been something that isn't the top requested feature, for the 11+ years that ED has existed.
 
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do not be like this and more importantly dont forget the truth where elite dangerous raised a lot of money, but instead of fdev putting the money back to develop the game they made zoo and tycoon games that completely flopped. What they are doing now is asking for even more money with increased monetization.
Funny how quickly people forget
That's a lie.

Kickstarter didn't even raise enough money to fund the initial version of the game. The largest part of development costs were paid by FDEV and investors.
 
As ever, ship interiors is not a requested feature, it's a feature that Frontier have said is coming.

Newsletter 32

To Launch, And Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass​

Elite: Dangerous is on track to launch in late 2014 (Q4).

But that won’t stop development. We plan to continue to significantly enhance the game via further expansions after the launch date, using the same incremental development philosophy that we’ve used so far.

Major new features will include planetary landings and even walking around inside ships, stations, and planet surfaces with time.

For those who have a Lifetime Expansion Pass (included in Premium Beta and Alpha, and also still available here until 29th July) all such significant expansion will be included. Those without the Lifetime Expansion Pass will be charged for each expansion as they are released.

We have made no secret that our ultimate ambition is to be able to land on the surface of planets, as you were able to in the other Elite sequels Frontier and Frontier: First Encounters.

We want this feature to push the boundaries as we believe we are doing in other areas of Elite: Dangerous already, like space flight, combat, trading, sound, online, visual fidelity etc.

An Orbis station in Frontier

An Orbis station in Elite: Dangerous.

That means rich, varied experiences. Not just landing pads, but rich content on the surfaces, surface vehicles, the ability to stash things there, to explore. Clearly ‘doing it right’ like this will take time, but we have a plan and will get there via a series of meaningful releases.

We believe that each stage will be incredible, and the result truly breathtaking. What you will see on the worlds will be a mix of procedurally generated content, particularly the landscapes, cloudscapes, compositions and so on, mixed with hand-crafted elements.

Planetary landing in Frontier

Concept piece for planetary landing in Elite: Dangerous

We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:

All is ready for you to walk around your ship.

Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.

Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.

Alpha and Premium Beta customers, and those who have already bought the £35 Lifetime Expansion Pass alongside either Beta or the full game, will have access to all these features and updates for as long as we create them at no further cost.

This means that if we are as successful as we hope to be, you will still be benefiting from the fantastic early support you gave us for a long time to come.

On 29th July the Lifetime Expansion Pass will no longer be available to buy in the store shop, to coincide with the launch of Beta 1.

So if you are planning to join the Beta or buy the final game and want to add the Lifetime Expansion Pass, you now have until 29th July to get automatic access to all future major paid-for expansions of Elite: Dangerous for £35.

You can purchase the Lifetime Expansion Pass here.

Each paid-for expansion will subsequently be put on sale separately (for people that don’t have the Lifetime Expansion Pass).
 
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Exploring a mega ship to find the logs would be infinitely more exciting than putting a digital plushie on my digital bed in an attempt to make a generic interior “mine”.
Boarding some of the megaships where the really ghoulish stuff happened could be creepy as hell.

I'd far prefer FDev to elaborate on things like that than make ship interiors with what I perceive to be limited gameplay opportunities. I mean, full a third of the ships in the game would be nothing but a ladder and a corridor of a couple of metres. I can barely contain my excitement.

There is clearly room for more on-foot gameplay activity in megaships and stations. They have the tech. It works already. There are cubic kilometres of gameplay opportunity inside stations (orbital and ground-based) and megaships.
 
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do not be like this and more importantly dont forget the truth where elite dangerous raised a lot of money, but instead of fdev putting the money back to develop the game they made zoo and tycoon games that completely flopped. What they are doing now is asking for even more money with increased monetization.
Funny how quickly people forget
Eh? Zoo Tycoon and Rollercoaster Tycoon pre-date ED by a good decade. Planet Zoo sold more than 2 million copies in 2 years, and Planet Coaster sold more than 3 million copies in 4 years; for context ED has sold about 5.5 million copies in 10 years.
 
Eh? Zoo Tycoon and Rollercoaster Tycoon pre-date ED by a good decade. Planet Zoo sold more than 2 million copies in 2 years, and Planet Coaster sold more than 3 million copies in 4 years; for context ED has sold about 5.5 million copies in 10 years.
The London Stock Exchange report back then said that by Nov 2020 the Epic launch alone brought 8 million new base game owners.
 
Oh sure. I meant they were unwanted by me. It's uncanny, of everything we've got the only things I really like are Planet Landings and Foot. Both things specifically in the KS. Everything else has been meh.
I'm fortunate that I missed the KS, so just bought a space game that has gotten better over time. (In content, not necessarily in bug splatting)
But, from the regular posting of videos from 10+ years back on this forum, it does appear that marketing for the KS game was good, and at least a game was released that has evolved over time. But I'd be very surprised if ED ever saw some of the things that marketed the game in those days.
 
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