Or I could advocate gameplay features during the development process of a game. Between the choice you just argued for, versus mine, which is a rational choice for a consumer? (Basic economics theory).
Elite Dangerous is not a sandbox
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Or I could advocate gameplay features during the development process of a game. Between the choice you just argued for, versus mine, which is a rational choice for a consumer? (Basic economics theory).
Please refer to my analysis in the very first post, to see where Skyrim falls in to the sliding scale of "sandboxiness", as compared to EVE, ED and even DnD. You will then see how I see Skyrim and won't need to ask why I think that's also a sandbox or sandbox like game.
Damn, that was such a good post!
Yes Robert Maynard, 'Sisyphus others' are (we) myself included; wouldn't want to have to participate in these activities. If forced into this boring activity; I'd play single player.
saying ED is not a sandbox game because it doesn't have certain features is like saying a car isn't a car because it has a fold down roof.
the definition you advance for a sandbox goes way beyond the basic tenant of an open world with no endgame - that's all a sandbox type game is, everything else is just topping on the cake.
i think you picked the right forum name to start this thread with though, as you can push that rock uphill all you like, but you still wont get anywhere with your argument.
the definition you advance for a sandbox goes way beyond the basic tenant of an open world with no endgame - that's all a sandbox type game is, everything else is just topping on the cake.
i think you picked the right forum name to start this thread with though, as you can push that rock uphill all you like, but you still wont get anywhere with your argument.
Then play single player. Or with a few friends... your gameplay experience doesn't have to impacted because a few people are crafting weapons and ships, or driving a station's market, etc.
I think the bottom line on corporations is the Devs do not think being a desk jockey is part of the Elite lore, of a space jockey. That other games handle that corporation aspect and they want Elite to be ...Elite. That delegating orders isn't first-person interactive. They aren't trying to be all games to all people.
I think Elite has only one comparison they need to worry about and essentially just be true to themselves and (sic) be all it can be (compared against itself).
I think they are already far and away more in depth and larger scope (in some ways) and yet maintain their individuality rather than trying to turn Elite into something it's not by muddying the waters and including things that drift away from the stream and theme and heart and soul of the game by homogenizing it (like WoW did blending classes for example).
If you want to play EVE or Civilization or Sim Corp, etc. those games are out there. I'd personally prefer the governments and corporations not be ru(I)n by players.
Burn the Earth and boil the sea!
I think Elite has only one comparison they need to worry about and essentially just be true to themselves and (sic) be all it can be (compared against itself).
I think they are already far and away more in depth and larger scope (in some ways) and yet maintain their individuality rather than trying to turn Elite into something it's not by muddying the waters and including things that drift away from the stream and theme and heart and soul of the game by homogenizing it (like WoW did blending classes for example).
If you want to play EVE or Civilization or Sim Corp, etc. those games are out there. I'd personally prefer the governments and corporations not be ru(I)n by players.
Burn the Earth and boil the sea!
Are you refering to the sliding scale definition? If you disagree with that, then you pretty much disagree with everyone that advocated against my original definition of sandbox, because everyone has their own definition. there is no "one" definition, unless you use the sliding scale definition/analysis. First post - bottom part.
And one thing. The players are a powerful tool when it comes to create content.
I remember from the earlier games where there was no quest etc. The players had to use their brain to come up whit player driven stuff to do.
many of todays players are spoiled brats that want everything served on a silver plate and just demand. ( Not saying anyone that have posted here is that so iam not picking on anyone)
I se ED as a great tool to create player driven stuff.
One thing that happened for some day ago on test server. 2 players gathered up and tried to create a blockade around a space station just to prevent others to buy some precious cargo. it was not popular but its an example of what a small player driven content can do.
I remember from the earlier games where there was no quest etc. The players had to use their brain to come up whit player driven stuff to do.
many of todays players are spoiled brats that want everything served on a silver plate and just demand. ( Not saying anyone that have posted here is that so iam not picking on anyone)
I se ED as a great tool to create player driven stuff.
One thing that happened for some day ago on test server. 2 players gathered up and tried to create a blockade around a space station just to prevent others to buy some precious cargo. it was not popular but its an example of what a small player driven content can do.
yes, i am as there is no 'sliding scale' its either a sandbox or it isn't - its a yes or no answer.
Crafting requires mining and/or salvaging - hardly a desk jockey thing. It may even require trading.
What an utterly moronic statement. Go back to Eve if that is what you want.
I addressed the limitations of a boolean argument in this post: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=412631&postcount=198
Lestat
Banned
Here the problem you have Sisyphus. You did not do your research. We can tell that from your First post. I would like you to read the whole. Design Discussion Archive. maybe have a better idea what elite will be. Oh Mining and Scavenging is in the Design Discussion Archives. What we be able to do with it unknown at this time.
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I think the problem people have is that Elite is a game with a very long heritage and is considered to be the game that invented sandbox gaming. To come to these forums and declare it to not be a sandbox game by your own definition is quite disrespectful.
The definition of a sandbox game is really quite simple. You are given a game world (the sandbox) and some tools to use in that world (the bucket and spade) and after that you are left to yourself.
Now sandbox elements have been incorporated into most modern computer games so it appears you kids have redefined the term to be much more specific. That's fine, but it's not cool to come here and try to force your own definition on to us old timers.
The definition of "sandbox" is not even important. All that you take issue with is that Elite: Dangerous does not provide you with some gameplay elements that you desire. That's the whole crux of this issue and can easily be addressed by one word. Sorry.
The definition of a sandbox game is really quite simple. You are given a game world (the sandbox) and some tools to use in that world (the bucket and spade) and after that you are left to yourself.
Now sandbox elements have been incorporated into most modern computer games so it appears you kids have redefined the term to be much more specific. That's fine, but it's not cool to come here and try to force your own definition on to us old timers.
The definition of "sandbox" is not even important. All that you take issue with is that Elite: Dangerous does not provide you with some gameplay elements that you desire. That's the whole crux of this issue and can easily be addressed by one word. Sorry.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's resource management - to a script.
You need to separate your suggestions rather than turning your arguments into another subject (corp/gov vs crafting).
In case you missed it: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game (which includes a quote from our very own David Braben if you read it)
So your argument for corporations/governing is that crafting requires mining and perhaps trading. WHAT???
As for crafting I believe the response you are looking for from FD (iirc) is there is no plans for crafting at this time.
Since you aren't discussing but deflecting I will leave you to other more intelligent replies than mine.
Again, since you seem to have selective vision: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game
Unless you do not consider Wikipedia a valid reference.
LLAP
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Like you said, what you can do with mining and salvaging, is unknown at this time. What is known, is that the upcoming features are not intended to add anything to the end game, the meta-game, etc. Therefore ED is a space combat simulation, with one or two features similar to some sandbox games, such as featuring an open galaxy. But that's about it.
The ONLY 3 things you can do and will ever be able to do in ED is combat, trade or explore. And even trading is limited because it's not a player controlled economy. You're trying to convince me that this is a sandbox game? I'm not convinced.
And what else will they add? Landing on planets? Exploring planets? While that's pretty cool, that does not make it a sandbox feature.
Also, if you actually read what you're asking me to read, you would have noted that even salvaging will be limited because the devs are too afraid that finding great loot would "imbalance" the game! They even insisted that TRADING would be the number 1 way to make money, but even that is limited because all products will be computer generated - you and I will not be propping up the market. That's less control, that means it's less sandboxy.
If you care to bring up something from the design discussion that supports your point of view that this is a sandbox game, then please tell me because I will be happy to lose this argument - it will mean ED is more awesome than I thought!
For me it does; I never found a game I enjoyed so much as Elite. And Ive' tried a lot of games.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I believe that you are conflating "control" with "freedom" - a sandbox game is about freedom, it does not necessarily have to allow control.
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